OR is an open carry state but even still half the population is liberal and a lot of people are weird about guns. I get tired of explaining myself even to people who aren't necessarily anti but don't own a gun or see a need. even camping in the woods people think I'm weird and look at me like I have goat horns, people I actually know. that gets really old. plus the whole element of surprise. it might serve as a deterrent but more likely you'll just make yourself a target.
why conceal in an open carry state?
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I do have a counter-point as far as "not spooking the general population."
When and where I grew up, most every pickup had a shotgun rack. During the appropriate seasons, those racks held shotguns or rifles. It was not unusual to see people walking around with shotguns or rifles, en route to a field. Nobody blinked.
Point I'm getting at is that conditioning is a real factor to consider. If the only times people see openly carried weapons, those weapons are being carried by cops or crooks, then people get conditioned to think of weapons as only being carried by cops or crooks.
So there is a decent chance that if people were more exposed to open carry by responsible people, it could condition them to spook a lot less, instead of a lot more.
I suspect that would require fairly discreet methods of open carry, by very polite and mild-mannered people. Loudmouths strutting around in their Cold, Dead Hands shirts and carrying Tacticool gear would probably have the wrong impact. I'm in favor of those guys having the right to do so, anyway, but hope they will realize it would not be good for our side for them to do that.
But I do think there's something to be said for discreet open carry by the right folks as a psychological conditioning agent.
OTOH, I like the tactical advantage of the BGs not knowing I'm armed.
My problem is, I get asked, "Are you a cop? Because you look like one," on a kind of regular basis, so I think those sorts may assume I'm packing anyway.
When and where I grew up, most every pickup had a shotgun rack. During the appropriate seasons, those racks held shotguns or rifles. It was not unusual to see people walking around with shotguns or rifles, en route to a field. Nobody blinked.
Point I'm getting at is that conditioning is a real factor to consider. If the only times people see openly carried weapons, those weapons are being carried by cops or crooks, then people get conditioned to think of weapons as only being carried by cops or crooks.
So there is a decent chance that if people were more exposed to open carry by responsible people, it could condition them to spook a lot less, instead of a lot more.
I suspect that would require fairly discreet methods of open carry, by very polite and mild-mannered people. Loudmouths strutting around in their Cold, Dead Hands shirts and carrying Tacticool gear would probably have the wrong impact. I'm in favor of those guys having the right to do so, anyway, but hope they will realize it would not be good for our side for them to do that.
But I do think there's something to be said for discreet open carry by the right folks as a psychological conditioning agent.
OTOH, I like the tactical advantage of the BGs not knowing I'm armed.
My problem is, I get asked, "Are you a cop? Because you look like one," on a kind of regular basis, so I think those sorts may assume I'm packing anyway.
Indiana is an OC state and while I'm glad it is legal and support those who choose to OC, it just not my cup of tea personally. You see, while OC is legal in IN, it's not particularly common and usually generates a few raised eyebrows at the least. I don't particularly like unneccessary attention and try to live my life in a way that avoids it. OC simply draws more attention than I want so I choose to carry concealed. Perhaps if I lived in a state where OC was more common, like AZ, and didn't draw so much attention I might feel differently.
irish52084
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I live in an open carry state, Washington, and it's rare that people even notice my gun when I OC. I carry both OC and CC and they both have their place, but OC is more comfortable.
The only responses I've had to my OC is a couple double takes when in line at the grocery store. No one has tried to steal my gun, made negative comments or asked me to leave their store or home. I have sat in Starbucks with 20 or so OC'ers, all carrying, and I watched every customer I could who walked through the doors. I'd guess that maybe 1 in 3 customers even noticed there were 20+openly armed people in the room with them. None of the customers ran away scared or acted scared, the police didn't come by and threaten us and nobody had their gun stolen.
As for the tactical advantage of CC over OC, I call BS. At best you're trading one tactical advantage for another. I know for myself that drawing my weapon from a concealed position is more difficult, slower and much easier to screw up than drawing from an open carry situation. I have nothing against CC, but I'm still waiting to see a true story of an OC'er being "gun snatched" or outright targeted because he/she had an openly carried gun.
The only responses I've had to my OC is a couple double takes when in line at the grocery store. No one has tried to steal my gun, made negative comments or asked me to leave their store or home. I have sat in Starbucks with 20 or so OC'ers, all carrying, and I watched every customer I could who walked through the doors. I'd guess that maybe 1 in 3 customers even noticed there were 20+openly armed people in the room with them. None of the customers ran away scared or acted scared, the police didn't come by and threaten us and nobody had their gun stolen.
As for the tactical advantage of CC over OC, I call BS. At best you're trading one tactical advantage for another. I know for myself that drawing my weapon from a concealed position is more difficult, slower and much easier to screw up than drawing from an open carry situation. I have nothing against CC, but I'm still waiting to see a true story of an OC'er being "gun snatched" or outright targeted because he/she had an openly carried gun.
irish52084
I have nothing against CC, but I'm still waiting to see a true story of an OC'er being "gun snatched" or outright targeted because he/she had an openly carried gun.
Man robbed of gun, money while sitting in car
A Manassas man was robbed of a handgun and money Saturday night, police said.
The 26-year-old victim was seated in his car in the 9700 block of Liberia Avenue, near the Parkhust Plaza and Evergreen Terrace shopping centers in Manassas, around 10:30 p.m. when someone he knew opened the driver’s side door and held him at knifepoint, Prince William police spokesman Jonathan Perok said.
The knife was put up to the victim’s neck while a second unknown man took the items, Perok said.
Police said the victim was not hurt in the incident.
http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2011/apr/19/man-hit-behind-woodbridge-ar-983383/
The detective who is investigating the case has a daughter who boards her horse with me. The victim OCed, and his "friends" knew he did.
I have nothing against CC, but I'm still waiting to see a true story of an OC'er being "gun snatched" or outright targeted because he/she had an openly carried gun.
Man robbed of gun, money while sitting in car
A Manassas man was robbed of a handgun and money Saturday night, police said.
The 26-year-old victim was seated in his car in the 9700 block of Liberia Avenue, near the Parkhust Plaza and Evergreen Terrace shopping centers in Manassas, around 10:30 p.m. when someone he knew opened the driver’s side door and held him at knifepoint, Prince William police spokesman Jonathan Perok said.
The knife was put up to the victim’s neck while a second unknown man took the items, Perok said.
Police said the victim was not hurt in the incident.
http://www2.insidenova.com/news/2011/apr/19/man-hit-behind-woodbridge-ar-983383/
The detective who is investigating the case has a daughter who boards her horse with me. The victim OCed, and his "friends" knew he did.
Let me just start of by saying that I have never carried before. But if I were to I would think that I would not want to open carry in some places. I would just feel weird letting others know that you have a gun with you. Also I have heard that carrying openly makes you a target.
Water-Man said:
Well said Water-Man, and IMHO, the best answer.
As we all know, there are pros and cons, both tactically and otherwise, to both ways of carrying. I think that as long as it's legal to carry and you are legally able to carry, then you should carry. Be it OC or CC, I don't care.
I do wish more would OC, as previously mentioned, it would go a long way to condition other people to learn not all who carry are bad, even if they aren't cops.
drb1611:
"Agree with previous posts - open carry gets unwanted attention from fellow civilians and law enforcement. For non-LEOs, carrying a gun should be for one reason - to defend against an attacker in a potentially lethal situation, not to advertise you have a gun. IMO, it should only be carried concealed. I have never seen someone open carry; and suspect that if I did, at least in a business establishment, the owner/manager would ask the person to leave."
why would they be asked to leave?
oc, never seen it, you should get out more.
"Agree with previous posts - open carry gets unwanted attention from fellow civilians and law enforcement. For non-LEOs, carrying a gun should be for one reason - to defend against an attacker in a potentially lethal situation, not to advertise you have a gun. IMO, it should only be carried concealed. I have never seen someone open carry; and suspect that if I did, at least in a business establishment, the owner/manager would ask the person to leave."
why would they be asked to leave?
oc, never seen it, you should get out more.
chris in va
New member
I'd love to open carry all the time but really don't care for any attention, positive or negative. I fully support anyone that chooses to do it though, and I've certainly done it myself quite a few times.
irish52084
New member
egor20: There is nothing in your link that states the man was OC. If hearsay from a detectives daughter is all you have, then I'm not sold. Maybe he was OC, but I see no clear evidence or proof that he was.
I'm open to the fact that it could happen and maybe it has, but I haven't yet seen a clear cut instance of a legal OC'er being gun grabbed. I think there is a challeng if someone can prove that a legit OC gun grab has occurred. I believe the guidelines are pretty clear. Here is a link to a discussion about it, look at post #19 for some details:http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?86904-Should-my-partner-OC
I'm open to the fact that it could happen and maybe it has, but I haven't yet seen a clear cut instance of a legal OC'er being gun grabbed. I think there is a challeng if someone can prove that a legit OC gun grab has occurred. I believe the guidelines are pretty clear. Here is a link to a discussion about it, look at post #19 for some details:http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?86904-Should-my-partner-OC
irish52084
New member
smince: The fact that someone can draw faster than me from a concealed position VS an open one is pretty pointless. If that same person, who is faster than me drawing from OC, were to devote the same amount of time to drawing from OC as CC they would be even faster than they were from concealed.
Man open carrying was robbed of his gun: http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/reports/reports2006/073106robNewtonPatton.htm
Yet nother incident of a man who was open carrying being robbed of his gun: http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/95999354.html
In BOTH cases the person who was open carrying was targeted because they were open carrying. Concealed carry would have LIKELY prevented these incidents from occurring.
Yet nother incident of a man who was open carrying being robbed of his gun: http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/95999354.html
In BOTH cases the person who was open carrying was targeted because they were open carrying. Concealed carry would have LIKELY prevented these incidents from occurring.
If you are down to fast-draw, you've already screwed up. It will be hard to dig out from the hole the momentary loss of situational awareness dropped you into.
Not meant as a slam, either. We all have those momentary losses of SA, condition orange be damned.
But in any of those cases where you have any inkling that something is going down, draw speed should not be a factor; the weapon should be in a concealed-ready state, unless you need to fire right then and there, or need to attempt to immediately deter the BG prior to firing.
Now, if I'm worried about something like bears, then the fast-draw becomes more of a valid issue, because quite frankly in most of the accounts I've read of bear attacks, the victim did not see it coming. This goes back to my own tendency to only OC when out in the great outdoors; even then, I typically CC, because I'm not normally in places where bears are a major concern. (Although we did seem to have had one in the barn a couple years ago....)
Not meant as a slam, either. We all have those momentary losses of SA, condition orange be damned.
But in any of those cases where you have any inkling that something is going down, draw speed should not be a factor; the weapon should be in a concealed-ready state, unless you need to fire right then and there, or need to attempt to immediately deter the BG prior to firing.
Now, if I'm worried about something like bears, then the fast-draw becomes more of a valid issue, because quite frankly in most of the accounts I've read of bear attacks, the victim did not see it coming. This goes back to my own tendency to only OC when out in the great outdoors; even then, I typically CC, because I'm not normally in places where bears are a major concern. (Although we did seem to have had one in the barn a couple years ago....)
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