Where can I obtain a Winchester 1892 Mare's Leg?
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Model12Win
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I would think a Rossi Ranch Hand in .44 magnum would be cool. Maybe a person could screw a sling swivel to the rear of the stock and add a sling loop to it, you could put the sling over your shoulder and use it to put forward pressure on the mare's leg to steady it? Just a thought. Also a red dot or ghost ring sights might aid in shooting. Out of that 12" barrel something like the Buffalo Bore 180 grain .44 magnum SWCHP "Anti-Personnel" loads would be pretty effective for social work.
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=243
https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=243
CavScout182
New member
Just curious...
What Short Barreled Rifles were dominate in the criminal activity back in the Roaring Twenties to inspire the inclusion in the 1934 NFA?
Even Clyde Barrows shortened Custom BAR "Scattergun" was not what we now consider an SBR.
http://texashideout.tripod.com/guns.html
I can't think of any rifle of the period that would give an upper hand for a criminal, if radically shortened.
Something in a pistol caliber... like the 1892 would seem to be one of the candidates for SBR use.... but nobody believes they existed before 1958!
Gas operated semis would not be candidates due to gas port/ piston location.
Recoil operated, like the Remington Model 8 might work, but would require extensive recoil spring modification.
Anyway... I don't know why SBR's were added to the NFA. Any info out there?
What Short Barreled Rifles were dominate in the criminal activity back in the Roaring Twenties to inspire the inclusion in the 1934 NFA?
Even Clyde Barrows shortened Custom BAR "Scattergun" was not what we now consider an SBR.
http://texashideout.tripod.com/guns.html
I can't think of any rifle of the period that would give an upper hand for a criminal, if radically shortened.
Something in a pistol caliber... like the 1892 would seem to be one of the candidates for SBR use.... but nobody believes they existed before 1958!
Gas operated semis would not be candidates due to gas port/ piston location.
Recoil operated, like the Remington Model 8 might work, but would require extensive recoil spring modification.
Anyway... I don't know why SBR's were added to the NFA. Any info out there?
The Thompson was the primary contributor, with Barrow's whippets & the occasional sawed-off shotgun leading up to the 1934 NFA.
Shorter leverguns with so-called "trapper" length barrels of 14 & 15 inches (and full-length stocks) were in existence during the late 1800s, but were seldom used as hide-outs or as crime tools.
Denis
Shorter leverguns with so-called "trapper" length barrels of 14 & 15 inches (and full-length stocks) were in existence during the late 1800s, but were seldom used as hide-outs or as crime tools.
Denis
carguychris
New member
Sometimes looking intimidating is all that's required.CavScout182 said:
True. Although AFAIK almost all historical whippets (or whipits, or whippits, or whip-its, however one chooses to spell it) were made from shotguns, the writers of the NFA most likely included SBRs and "Weapons Made from a Rifle" out of concern that crooks would simply switch to cut-down rifles once cut-down scatterguns were taxed to death.DPris said:
Of course, a good deal of hysterical "We have to do SOMETHING! It's for the CHILDREN and PUBLIC ORDER!"-type thinking surely went into the decision as well.
FWIW prior to the gun-control excesses that followed the 1968 GCA, it was a lot more politically and socially acceptable for nominally pro-gun folks to publicly support legal moves against types of guns that were commonly associated with crime, which is why many such folks supported the NFA and GCA. IOW there was less of a sense that gun ownership was really an absolute inalienable right, perhaps due to an assumption that gun-control politicians were acting in good faith, and would never seriously go after the guns that the "good guys" had. CavScout182
New member
One interesting exception to the NFA is the Thompson Center Contender.
It was determined (at the Federal level) that a person could own the various components for both handgun and Carbine... and it is left up to the person to never assemble an SBR.
The debates about the Mares Leg don't seem to be so concerned about the short barrel, as much as concern about the absence of a shoulder support.
Going back to another Hollywood prop... Hugh O'Brian sported an attachable shoulder stock for his Buntline Special in "The Life and Times of Wyatt Earp".
The ability to attach a buttstock to a handgun has been proven as practical for a few Centuries now.
Wouldn't it be great if our elected officials saw fit to amend the NFA to once again allow such a useful handgun accessory? Without having to pay a $200 tariff!
It was determined (at the Federal level) that a person could own the various components for both handgun and Carbine... and it is left up to the person to never assemble an SBR.
The debates about the Mares Leg don't seem to be so concerned about the short barrel, as much as concern about the absence of a shoulder support.
Going back to another Hollywood prop... Hugh O'Brian sported an attachable shoulder stock for his Buntline Special in "The Life and Times of Wyatt Earp".
The ability to attach a buttstock to a handgun has been proven as practical for a few Centuries now.
Wouldn't it be great if our elected officials saw fit to amend the NFA to once again allow such a useful handgun accessory? Without having to pay a $200 tariff!
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Creek Henry
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Hiw accurate is the Rossi? I've read it to be around 3" groups at 50 yards which seems mediocre.
CavScout182
New member
SpareMag...
It has been my observation, after watching numerous examples on YouTube, that most first time Mares Leg shooters try to fire it like a Carbine.
Without a full buttstock it will never feel right or function as expected when that part of memory reflex is missing.
The original Mares Legs were designed to be alternative sidearms... and for those of us that watched the original TV show, that's how we saw them used.
The originals had no sights, so on screen accuracy was edited in.
Steve McQueen was a method actor, and shot the Mares Legs off set with live ammo. It was reported in the 1961 Guns Quarterly article that he could hit tin cans at 30 yards, having been coached in point shooting by a Hollywood Gun Wrangler.
I have mentioned before that I feel a major problem with the 12" barrel, 24" OAL versions is that they are too close to a Trapper Carbine, inviting a new shooter to try to use them that way.
The current run of Mares Legs are sold as Pistols, and are just as accurate as any other pistol, with similar barrel lengths... assuming comparable manufacturer barrel making standards.
A one handed, unsupported hold would be near impossible to hold a steady sight picture, due to the weight forward. But then, I know from experience that is the same issue when shooting a Thompson Center Contender with a 14" barrel.
At the range, I use a Vanguard Porta Aim to support the forearm while sitting at the table. For standing off hand, I use the top of my left wrist, palm down, to support the forearm.
http://www.vanguardworld.us/hunting_us/porta-aim.html#go-sectionTop
Steve McQueen used several holds during the series as shown in the attached pics.
The third Mares Leg was made from an 1892 Rifle, and had the smaller tear drop lever... and a widened smooth hammer spur to provide a quick fanning first shot out of the holster... all succeeding shots had to be lever cycled.
It has been my observation, after watching numerous examples on YouTube, that most first time Mares Leg shooters try to fire it like a Carbine.
Without a full buttstock it will never feel right or function as expected when that part of memory reflex is missing.
The original Mares Legs were designed to be alternative sidearms... and for those of us that watched the original TV show, that's how we saw them used.
The originals had no sights, so on screen accuracy was edited in.
Steve McQueen was a method actor, and shot the Mares Legs off set with live ammo. It was reported in the 1961 Guns Quarterly article that he could hit tin cans at 30 yards, having been coached in point shooting by a Hollywood Gun Wrangler.
I have mentioned before that I feel a major problem with the 12" barrel, 24" OAL versions is that they are too close to a Trapper Carbine, inviting a new shooter to try to use them that way.
The current run of Mares Legs are sold as Pistols, and are just as accurate as any other pistol, with similar barrel lengths... assuming comparable manufacturer barrel making standards.
A one handed, unsupported hold would be near impossible to hold a steady sight picture, due to the weight forward. But then, I know from experience that is the same issue when shooting a Thompson Center Contender with a 14" barrel.
At the range, I use a Vanguard Porta Aim to support the forearm while sitting at the table. For standing off hand, I use the top of my left wrist, palm down, to support the forearm.
http://www.vanguardworld.us/hunting_us/porta-aim.html#go-sectionTop
Steve McQueen used several holds during the series as shown in the attached pics.
The third Mares Leg was made from an 1892 Rifle, and had the smaller tear drop lever... and a widened smooth hammer spur to provide a quick fanning first shot out of the holster... all succeeding shots had to be lever cycled.
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CavScout182
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CavScout182
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For anybody interested, The Chiappa 1892 will mount the Marbles Adjustable Tang Sight for the original Winchester 1892, with the matching screw set. The only thing I had to do on a previous rifle was chase the trigger bar threads for the tang screw with a 10-32 tap.
A tang sight on a Chiappa Mares Leg would give a much longer sight radius.
Unless you've modified one of the production guns to be a more accurate replica, a tang sight might improve shooting enjoyment?
A tang sight on a Chiappa Mares Leg would give a much longer sight radius.
Unless you've modified one of the production guns to be a more accurate replica, a tang sight might improve shooting enjoyment?
They certainly can be aimed. 
Practicality is not required for ownership of one of these guns.
For a certain generation, they're just TV cool, and that's enough right there.
For others, they have their own appeal, for whatever reason.
My longer Chiappa CAN be fired from the shoulder, and aimed quite easily that way.
It can also be just as accurate as a carbine, although it's a little cramped using it on the shoulder.
It can also be fired from the hip at defensive distances, although it's not very efficient when used for that purpose.
With practice, quite possible to put hits inside a standard B27 silhouette at 25 yards & closer, without aiming.
10 feet, very easy, and can be relatively fast in action.
For aimed fire, you use both hands.
I found that a traditional fore & aft rifle hold with supporting hand on the fore-end and strong hand in the firing position at the gun's wrist allows aiming, but without a third point of contact to anchor everything together (shoulder), the arms can tend to wander & throw aim off.
One arm wants to go this way, other arm wants to go that way.
Better stance was to position with both hands together back on the stock wrist, in a more conventional handgun shooting grip.
Steadier, both hands are locked together, the arms don't work against each other.
Fairly easy to hold on target using the sights, although it's slow to re-position everything for each follow-up shot, and you still have to deal with the weight.
And as I said, even with my shortened Rossi with no sights at all, I can hit a small steel buffalo out to 35 yards or so by just aligning the receiver bridge with the barrel band.
The MLs are not particularly efficient in the way they go about it, but they CAN shoot.
As I've said before, there are three TV guns of my childhood that I've wanted for over 50 years.
The ML tops the list, the other two are The Rifleman's Winchester & the U.N.C.L.E Special P-38.
I've at least got 33% of my wants filled.
Denis
Practicality is not required for ownership of one of these guns.
For a certain generation, they're just TV cool, and that's enough right there.
For others, they have their own appeal, for whatever reason.
My longer Chiappa CAN be fired from the shoulder, and aimed quite easily that way.
It can also be just as accurate as a carbine, although it's a little cramped using it on the shoulder.
It can also be fired from the hip at defensive distances, although it's not very efficient when used for that purpose.
With practice, quite possible to put hits inside a standard B27 silhouette at 25 yards & closer, without aiming.
10 feet, very easy, and can be relatively fast in action.
For aimed fire, you use both hands.
I found that a traditional fore & aft rifle hold with supporting hand on the fore-end and strong hand in the firing position at the gun's wrist allows aiming, but without a third point of contact to anchor everything together (shoulder), the arms can tend to wander & throw aim off.
One arm wants to go this way, other arm wants to go that way.
Better stance was to position with both hands together back on the stock wrist, in a more conventional handgun shooting grip.
Steadier, both hands are locked together, the arms don't work against each other.
Fairly easy to hold on target using the sights, although it's slow to re-position everything for each follow-up shot, and you still have to deal with the weight.
And as I said, even with my shortened Rossi with no sights at all, I can hit a small steel buffalo out to 35 yards or so by just aligning the receiver bridge with the barrel band.
The MLs are not particularly efficient in the way they go about it, but they CAN shoot.
As I've said before, there are three TV guns of my childhood that I've wanted for over 50 years.
The ML tops the list, the other two are The Rifleman's Winchester & the U.N.C.L.E Special P-38.
I've at least got 33% of my wants filled.
Denis
Aguila Blanca
Staff
As one who is old enough to have watched the show when it was in its first run, I don't completely agree with the above. The original Mare's Leg was not designed as an "alternative" sidearm. It was Josh Randall's primary and only sidearm. It was designed as a gimmick, to differentiate Wanted Dead or Alive from the myriad of other western shows then running on the telly. The same as Chuck Conners' rifle in The Rifleman, Nick Adams' (Johnny Yuma) sawed-off shotgun in The Rebel, and the short-bladed [former] saber Chuck carried as the dishonored former Army officer in Branded.CavScout182 said:
And, as far as viewers were concerned, there was only one Mare's Leg. Yes, three were used in the making of the show over multiple seasons, but IN the show there was only one.
CavScout182
New member
Thank you Denis, for the clarification.
My terminology of "Alternative Sidearm" was used as a reference to the dominant variations of the Colt SA Army revolver in the various TV Westerns of the 50's... preceding the 1958 debut of Wanted...
As far as Josh Randall... He did carry an alternative sidearm! A Remington Derringer... he got from a lady part way into the series.
So I guess I'm safe on both interpretations of my previous post!
My terminology of "Alternative Sidearm" was used as a reference to the dominant variations of the Colt SA Army revolver in the various TV Westerns of the 50's... preceding the 1958 debut of Wanted...
As far as Josh Randall... He did carry an alternative sidearm! A Remington Derringer... he got from a lady part way into the series.
So I guess I'm safe on both interpretations of my previous post!
22-rimfire
New member
I have a Henry 22LR Mare's Leg. It was a weak moment..... I would just about rather shoot anything else in my rimfire group. But it's fun for a while.
CavScout182
New member
Aguila,
True... when we were young, we did not have an educated eye to spot technical details about firearms.
Likewise, most of us never counted how many shots came out of those "Sixshooters" without reloading.
We never questioned the clothing or equipment being "Period Correct".
We just looked forward to that magic half hour every week, where we imagined we were on the other side of that TV glass... in that world of black and white.
After becoming a "Grownup", it's entertaining to watch the old reruns, and realize how far from period correct the public accepted as the "Real Old West"!
True... when we were young, we did not have an educated eye to spot technical details about firearms.
Likewise, most of us never counted how many shots came out of those "Sixshooters" without reloading.
We never questioned the clothing or equipment being "Period Correct".
We just looked forward to that magic half hour every week, where we imagined we were on the other side of that TV glass... in that world of black and white.
After becoming a "Grownup", it's entertaining to watch the old reruns, and realize how far from period correct the public accepted as the "Real Old West"!
CavScout182
New member
22-rimfire,
I don't have any illusions that a ML is a preferred format for a multiple caliber arms collection.
I don't have any of the fine Henry offerings... feeling quite satisfied with my Marlin 39M Mountie for lever .22 use. And my Remington 121 fills my desire for a pump .22. A 70's era Stevens Crackshot fills the Single shot impulse.
The only .22 semi-auto I own goes way outside of the vintage arms mystique... with a Walther Licensed HK MP5 SD!
My Mares Leg in .45 Colt fulfilled my lust to own one... even if it is not "Technically Correct" in every dimension... my mind fills in the rest... just like my memories of childhood heroes!
I don't have any illusions that a ML is a preferred format for a multiple caliber arms collection.
I don't have any of the fine Henry offerings... feeling quite satisfied with my Marlin 39M Mountie for lever .22 use. And my Remington 121 fills my desire for a pump .22. A 70's era Stevens Crackshot fills the Single shot impulse.
The only .22 semi-auto I own goes way outside of the vintage arms mystique... with a Walther Licensed HK MP5 SD!
My Mares Leg in .45 Colt fulfilled my lust to own one... even if it is not "Technically Correct" in every dimension... my mind fills in the rest... just like my memories of childhood heroes!
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