When you can't carry, less than lethal options

I'm not sure what you mean by "less than lethal." Nearly anything can be lethal, you can kill a person with a pillow. However, even with intent, a pillow is not considered a deadly weapon. With intent to harm, a knife of any size or shape can be considered by a reasonable person, to be a deadly weapon.

I think what you are looking for are "less lethal" options.

If you spray somebody because you feel they are a threat and they have a severe allergic or cardiopulmonary reaction to OC/CS, it may kill them. You may be convicted in a criminal trial, and/or you may be found guilty in civil court. Pepper can certainly be a lethal weapon, but is generally considered "less lethal" than a firearm or a knife.

Blunt objects such a stingers, knucks, kubotans, "tactical pens," delta darts, crenelated flashlights, are all intended to be blunt force weapons, and a good shot with any of them to the skull can put somebody into a veggie state or kill them, particularly if the target has underlying conditions.

Regarding legality, intent can mean the difference between self-defense, justified homicide, or murder. And intent isn't that tough to prove in court if you're carrying something that a reasonable person would consider to be a deadly weapon. Make your choices wisely.
 
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Oh nazshooter,,, Ye are surely of little faith,,,,,

your assailant might laugh themselves to death when they see you standing there with your pants around your ankles and swinging your belt :)
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Okay, you figured out the strategy,,,
That's part of the beauty of the whole belt thing,,,
When you get you opponent to laughing, you can take him out. ;)

But seriously,,,
Haven't you ever been witness to a cowboy bar fight?

Invariably someone will whip off their belt,,,
And do some considerable damage with that buckle.

Don't laugh until you try it,,,
Swing about 18 inches of belt with a heavy buckle,,,
Smack something with it and you will be surprised at the damage.

Saved my @$$ in a bar fight in South Korea one time,,,
And it wasn't even a very big buckle.
Hit the guy in the hand with it,,,
He dropped the knife.

If I ever get so fat as to need suspenders,,,
Then I am poop-out-of luck. ;)

Aarond
 
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A good quality sharp folding knife that can be brought into action quickly is a very serious weapon.

A contact weapon takes serious determination on your part. You must be sure that you want to defend yourself with deadly force and be prepared for the mess.
 
5. brass knuckles
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Oh no, do not ever get caught with these, it is a felony.

Carry a sap, it is a leather strap filled with lead shot, hit a guy with it and he will be hurtin. Cops used to carry these.
 
Never Fails If Done Correctly

A wooden cane is a great weapon, but without trainnnig it would be difficult to be effective.

A two finger eye shot has never failed to stop anyone that I've used it on. It does take some skill though. If rt. handed place your hand near you rt. breast so that it travels a short distance, and is a zero perception technique. It's hard to see when comming straight at you.

To distract him simply ask him a question. or raise your left hand and open it and his eye will follow it. Hands open will add speed. Practice in front of a mirror. Keeping the hands open and relaxed will add speed. If done correct he'll never block it. Good luck. Lyle
 
as far suggestions for tactical pens and air-travel, please read this.

http://www.tsa.gov/who_we_are/workforce/workforce_stories/catch_100110.shtm

I do a lot of travel through airports, when I think "useful less than lethal tools" I simultaneously think "what can I legally carry in an airport."

A simple Uni-Ball roller pen is pretty sharp and, again as emphasized, training will help make it a formidable tool. Wrap one with old head-phones or para-cord and you have a beautiful Koppo stick. Old head-phone cord is extremely sturdy and if the ear-buds are attached you can easily tell the TSA agent you're using the pen as a way to keep the cord from getting tangled.

A baseball hat with a logo patch sewn on the hat. Behind the patch, put a heavy challenge-coin or something similar and sew the patch back on. Like a poor-man's sap. In the X-Ray the coin will show in the hat and you can say something about sentimentality like you got the coin and the hat from an old friend or relative. It's worked for me a few times.

Good luck with what you do!

- Hiroshi
 
Next time I fly somewhere, I'll have a carry on duffel bag with:

A change of clothes & shoes, extra shoestrings for all shoes.
2 pairs of long work socks.
Small pouch of meds & personal items, gauze & tape, spare eyeglasses.
A pair of leather work gloves.
2 rolls of quarters for any vending machine purchases.
Rings of keys for each place I visit, each ring labeled with tag.
A notebook, small calculator & writing pad. A technical book & leisure book.
Pencil box or bag with a few paper clips, rubber bands & a $20 bill.
Envelope with copies of my ID's, list of addresses, phone #'s.
A package of factory sharpened pencils & a package of ball point pens.
A small umbrella, small flashlight & head lamp.
A prepaid cell phone & small recording device.
A few snack crackers & bottle of water, bought at airport.
All common items any traveler might normally carry, all used by most people.
Examine the ways some items can be used, alone or combined.
 
You could Macgyver a whole LOT with that stuff, but it would take time and access to them. I would focus on the things you would have within arms reach and require no assembly.

Metal-bodied pens and metal flashlights would be prime choices for improvised defense, IMO.
Of course, I wouldn't want to be hit by several rolls of coins in a long sock either!

Improvised weapons are handy, but in an enclosed, tight space like an aircraft, I think unarmed training will likely influence the outcome more than an improvised weapon.
 
Good points raimius, we do need such training. However; a roll of quarters or ring of keys in a sock will hurt the BG much more than my fists which never were "fists of fury" to begin with. The pencils & pens are good stabbing weapons to injure his throat, eyes, stomach, chest, etc. Shoestrings are good for tying hands & feet or strangling a BG. Umbrella is a moderately good club & better shield than nothing at all. A paper clip unfolded & shot from a rubber band can take an eye out or distract a BG long enough for a further attack by someone else. If all that fails, I can then use my fists as a last resort.

A carry on duffel bag under the seat is within arm's reach to me and anything mentioned would only take seconds to put together. Plus, if anyone nearby wants to help, I have a weapon for him too.

McGyver? He made bombs from grain dust.
 
While a knife is a lethal weapon I think any jury of peers using a little common sense and given some insight into how a knife can be applied in a less lethal fashion could differentiate between wounds inflicted with the intent to kill an individual versus wounds inflicted to stop an attack without lethal intent.

A knife can also be used as a kubaton which is less lethal then applying the blade although under the right circumstances you could kill someone using a kubaton.

OC spray might end or escalate the attack and you need to have a back-up, which might be a knife.

In the most restrictive places I carry a sturdy pen. Tuff Writer at the moment.
 
As most of the improvised weapons would be used at contact range, hand-to-hand or very close CQB skill would probably be important. That was my point.

A bag under the seat is good. I'm too tall to comfortably do that...dang economy seats!
 
I'm a boxer so my hands do fine, but on occasion I'll tie the ends of a bandana together, stick a master lock on it, and put it in my back pocket.
 
If you can't carry a gun (i.e. there are metal-detectors present), you're most likely not going to be able to carry knives or OC either.

Get a "super sharpie" marker or a cheap but sturdy metal-bodied pen (the drug-rep pens are great for this), or a small flashlight.

Something like the above, coupled with some good martial-arts/combatives training will leave you pretty well prepared for the times when you can't be armed with a purpose-designed weapon.

2edgesword said:
While a knife is a lethal weapon I think any jury of peers using a little common sense and given some insight into how a knife can be applied in a less lethal fashion could differentiate between wounds inflicted with the intent to kill an individual versus wounds inflicted to stop an attack without lethal intent.
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I'm gonna call BS on this one...using a knife to target extremities "without lethal intent" would be no different than shooting someone "without lethal intent." i.e. deliberately shooting them in the arm or the leg.
Shooting or stabbing/slashing someone (regardless of where you stab/slash/shoot them) will NOT stand up in court if deadly force was not justified.

I've also heard some people raise the interesting, and quite reasonable, point that the types of wounds inflicted by "biomechanical cutting" are going to look an awful lot like the "defensive wounds" commonly seen on someone who was defending themselves against a knife attack. So now you're trying to get the cops, prosecutor, and ultimately, the jury to believe that you were the one defending yourself...even though the other guy bears the marks commonly seen on victims of a knife attack.

2edgesword said:
A knife can also be used as a kubaton which is less lethal then applying the blade although under the right circumstances you could kill someone using a kubaton.
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This (closed folder used as an impact weapon) would, IMO, be the only way a knife could feasibly be used in a "less lethal" capacity.
 
I like reading the suggestions on here, never though of a Super-Sharpie or a roll of quarters. Good show!

Again, I will say for those doing the flashlight option, you should NOT get a tactical light (I.E. Aggressive teeth in the front to bring the hurt) or tactical pens. I have seen these confiscated over and over as "concealed weapons."

To the OP, the main agreement here is to get some martial-arts training.

- Hiroshi
 
+1 to Nisei

If you can't carry ANYTHING, then some hand - to - hand training is going to be your best bet.


The combatives I was taught in the Army was basically what UFC fighters use.

A mix of Muay-Thai and Brazillian Jujutsu.

The important differences is that in combatives, we were taught that our training was to achieve one of three goals, in priority.
1 - Break away from a hostile you are scuffling with to get your weapon back.
2 - Gain the upper hand and use a back up weapon. (Knife, stick, rock)
3 - Gain the upper hand and use your body as a weapon.



We were also taught several techniques using your opponents clothing as a weapon against them. Using their collars to choke them, pulling their sleeves past their hands and controlling their arms with their sleeves, rendering their hands useless.

I only got to level 2, but I believe the higher levels incorporated using Kali sticks.
 
A long time ago, in a sleazy bar far, far away

Back when I was in the Navy, when I wore the "Cracker Jack" uniform, I used to sew a roll if quarters into my kerchief so it was at the back of my neck, made a great slapjack in a fight.
 
Two 3 oz pakcets of "Hand Sanitizer". One in each of your front pockets of your jacket. Open and squeeze to shoot a stream about 10 feet in front of you. Get this stuff in someone's eyes at 40%+ alcohol content and it will hurt and disorient them. Safe and legal to carry on all airplanes. Remember one in each of your jacket pockets. If you don't have a jacket this time of the year, go get one!
 
I've had this idea for a while but kept forgetting to post it.

Para-cord wrist band.

images



They have about 18 feet of 550lb test para-chute cord. Useful in multiple ways.
 
I saw the misgivings about tactical pens. I wondered earlier if they wouldn't be noticed & disallowed. Several common pens out there are very sharp & should stand up to a stab or 2. Pilot makes several types & the old Bic pens are still around. Both are pretty cheap too. I've seen several others as well.

I forgot to mention a lighter. I think 1 lighter or book of matches is allowed in carry on luggage. I gave up smoking but might throw in a cigar or cigarettes to explain the lighter. Never know what it may be good for. Cheap & easy to have, why not?

I like the hand sanitizer; great idea.
 
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