What Went Wrong?

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So you have seen at least ten samples of each "cheapie" shotgun and observed that two or three of each were satisfactory? There are quie a few brands of "cheapie" shotguns on the market. The few "cheapie" shotguns I have seen worked just fine. In fact, with a 100 percent flawless record. I therefore conclude that "cheapie" shotguns are not all flawed.

And if we sub car, suit, hammer, or whatever - by your logic, they must all be good?

Glad yours works for you - I'm looking forward to seeing you at the winner's circle for trap, skeet or sporting clays - just how many championships have you won, btw? Please list them, and let us know where you do this great training that's lets you win
 
Yes, I've seen enough junk to draw my conclusion ....you've finally got it figured out .......:D

Why don't you and your buddies go out and buy 10 of them ...and let us know how you're sample works out ?? I might change my mind about some of the brands that I see that are problems ..
 
re:oneounceload

And if we sub car, suit, hammer, or whatever - by your logic, they must all be good?

Exactly!

re:bigjimp

Yes, I've seen enough junk to draw my conclusion ....you've finally got it figured out

How many of each brand are we talking about? I don't want an exact figure, but a rough estimate.
 
okey dokey , roy.....you keep your "POS" as you like to call it, and I'll keep mine......this is starting to degenerate..........you love your Turkish/Russian/Brazilian/Other POS..........good for you......................it works for you?.........good for you

Some of us prefer things that work better, are built better and have a longevity you seem to not be able to understand.....OK.....

Have at it, and you can answer everyone's questions about what gun to buy when they need a cheap but reliable O/U and come on here, because your experience makes it true, and those POS guns are exactly the same as the better ones...only cheaper for those folks who base every purchase strictly on price............

I'll continue to follow my sig line....you can continue to follow "cheapest price is best"
 
re:oneounceload

Turkish/Russian/Brazilian/Other POS

How many of these guns have you personally owned and had a failure with? An estimate would suffice. I know I am coming across as a smart alec, but if someone makes statements that the majority of guns made by any company fail, I want hard data. Give me a reference, name a publication to read, a website to link, something. Otherwise it is just opinion, not fact. If you are given a medication, do you want the facts about the drug or the opnions about the drug?

Here is a simple question.

Why would any gun shop stock and sell any firearm with a seventy to eighty percent failure rate? I realize that if someone buys a defective gun it ain't the gun shop's fault. But it still doesn't make them look good.
 
Why would any gun shop stock and sell any firearm with a seventy to eighty percent failure rate? I realize that if someone buys a defective gun it ain't the gun shop's fault. But it still doesn't make them look good.

Its not so much a failure rate, I think the actual phrase is something along the lines of "Mean Time Between Failures" and you won't see that shooting "low" numbers per year.



To oneounceload:

I have come to realize the error of my ways, having gone out and borrowed a few of what I considered expensive shotguns for myself and my wife to do some shooting with, and I have seen the light. I've got a big chunk of re-enlistment bonus that has been rotting in the bank not doing anything, and some of it is about to turn into a pair of Beretta's, fitted stocks and, yes...lessons. Your earlier comment where you mentioned expensive hammers drove the point home even more. I've got a $40 dollar hammer that I've had for years, and would not ever part with. I can't even let myself swing a cheap hammer.
 
From one LOW DOUGH brand owner to all ya'll others...

I own CHEAP Mossberg 500's... So ya'll agree my gun costs less than a CHEAP side by side or O/U of lesser brand import?

Lets say you break a stock bolt... as I did... Can you call THE FACTORY and speak to an english speaking representative? Can you state your problem and have that person OFFER to send you a new one at no cost? NOT EVEN SHIPPING COSTS?

Can you then walk to your mailbox 2-3 DAYS later and find your NEW FACTORY stock bolt in a manilla envelope complete with 3 decals that they sell for 3-5 dollars each just because you told them that you have been totally happy with your gun for 20+ years?

But that is just my experience with my low dough AMERICAN MADE GUN!!!

Brent
 
the best shooting firearm is the firearm you shoot best with
i have a few of those nicer firearms in my case but for my average hunt the sks comes out at 150 yards i can pull up with out sights and consistently hit a sheet of lined paper it isnt any kind of group but a deer bear and coyotes vitals all fit in that size of paper and jackrabbit is tricky fast and has a side to side dash to even throw off a 12 gauge but it fits in a paper size area too
very few of my hunting shotguns or rifle s cost more than 200$ my elk rifle was around 3 after it shipped my 1949 K31 standard two stage trigger lightning fast straight pull action full length top and bottom furniture and accuracy im not sure my rem 700 .308 can match go ahead and buy a yup gun that your afraid to drag the stock through the dirt in a last minute low crawl to get the best shot, an action with 100 more parts made of cheap stamped steel that claims to be better than a solid 6.5 lb action and barrel from the 30s or 40s dont buy an old shot out piece of crap but buy a mans gun that can be used in the mud the humidity the rain and even - 20 weather or buy you a yup gun for the rich and famous and then buy you a a new Yamaha rhino so you dont have to walk to your stand or drag you own deer and so you dont get too tired or over worked heck buy you a huge fence and a bird feeder so you dont have to do any work at all
 
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I bought a cheap side by side 20 guage some years ago. It never failed to fire or did it ever blow up. What the problem with it was, I could never hit anything I shot at with the second barrel...they were not properly aligned. Got rid of it. Had nothing to do with snobery.
 
Lol well K31 that sounds good enough reasoning to me to me. That's why I love what I got. ill drag my m1a or 1903 through the dirt and do what needs to be done for that good shot and still not hurt my feelings any. my favorite game it hog and it takes a bit to drag them things beck to the truck but often times the go where a 4 wheeler wouldn't try to.
hogdogs that sounds good enough reason to invest in a mossburg compared to any of those high dollar yuppy guns. if the military uses it its gotta say something and if they're willing to do that just because they assure customer satisfaction like that it says one or two things about the guns. I still gotta break in my saiga but its kinda picky about its loads it prefers buck and slug loves buck and ball, so im looking into a mossburg little less bruising at the end of a day and parts that get to the mailbox a bit faster.
 
Well, mr.long, I would expect nearly similar service from the "yuppy gun" companies... But I would not expect it from any of the low barrel import companies...

Brent
 
Saiga doesn't exactly have the best service in the world by far up there along with FH. spare parts in cycles,but with such a reliable system like the sagia platform the parts that the gun is built with are really reliable.
 
another lovely hunting choice HI point carbine 9mm my favorite pheasant gun
and guess what if it brakes they fix it or replace it FOR FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO MATTER WHO OWNS IT OR WHOS NAMES ON THE PAPERS FOR FREE!!!!!!!!!
does ________ (fill in the blank) have guarantee like that
oh. and a P.S. i have owned about 4 hipoints and never sent even 1 back
even a crook knows the pros of a throw down and the hikers, hunters, blue collar, fisherman and guys all around the country that dont want to waste thier money on the wifes first gun that we all know just what really happens to it a year later
 
Ive seen the ugly truth of what happens when the new wars off to my ex faience 22. someone asked me if I was outta m mind when I bought her a 22 and i told them with out skipping a beat my guns are bigger loaded and at least ones in my truck ,and she cant hit a barn door at 20 paces.:) Okie id like to see a skeet shoot with a saiga too, but the down side is its designed to handle the heavy loads to cycle. Im not sure competition officials would feel comfortable o if you walk out on the field with it.
 
Hearsay?

I will also tell you that 2 or 3 out of 10 guns that come out of some of these mfg's seem to be pretty good ....for 2,500 or maybe even 10,000 shells

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Saying that a gun manufacturer has three-fourths of its guns leaving the factory as defective is an extraordinary claim. Just typing out a claim here and not backing it up with scientific evidence amounts to hearsay. It is nothing more then a personal opinion. It does border on snobbery. This wouldn't even be allowed in a court of law.

There is a big gun show this weekend. I am going to ask around about this. Maybe there will be a gunsmith or dealer with experience in selling and dealing with inexpensive imports. Maybe I can get some hard data on this.
 
I was just looking at the CZ website. All there guns, shotguns included, have a five year waranty. Most used guns I have seen come "As Is" on the price tag. That means that if you pull the trigger on it tomorrow and it don't go bang, you could be SOL. With a new CZ you could fire one hundred times tomorrow, and the day after and continue nonstop for five years until you are SOL.

Those bargain used shotguns don't seem like such bargain after all.
 
And if we sub car, suit, hammer, or whatever - by your logic, they must all be good?
Dang right. Them guys in those fancy shootin' duds jest peed their money away. Barbour clothes does me jest fine an' if they ain't good enough for you yer just a big snootie.

Watches too! I see these yuppies with their Rolexes. Well hell my Omega keeps just as good 'a time. What idjits they is.

And why in the heck would someone spend all that money on a Rolls Royce? Criminy, me and muh 'lil ole BMW gets to all the same places jest as fast. Fools, all of them guys. Fools I tell ya!
 
This thread is teetering on closure....

I shoot 6-7K a year at clays, maybe 100 shells at game in a good year. Some of my favorite shotguns cost less than $300, and they've held up well.

Of course, many of them are 870s, which defy the Glitch Gremlins.

6-7K loads a year is not much by competition standards. It's enough though, to weed out a few sub quality guns that I no longer own.

Shotguns of known reliability and longevity are not necessarily expensive. Brent's Mossbergs and my Remingtons are cases in point. So are Model 11s, 12s, A-5s, 311s, etc. With the exception of minty A-5s, all can be found for a few hundred and will last longer than any of us here.

Off brands are a crap shoot. I've had too many folks on the line have troubles with imported sub quality junk to think there's some great bargains out there that are made in Uzbekistan,etc. Others go the distance, at least for now, but who knows for how long?

Finally, I never shot skeet with a Saiga. I did take the one I had on loan to the range at PGC and shot Chinese Trap with the Geezer Squad. They got to shoot it a little and liked it.

The Geezers, G*d Bless them, are opinionated, elderly, and own shotguns like Model 21 Winchesters, Parker SxS 20 gauges and Model 12 trap guns. They tried a few shots each with that Saiga and liked it.

Snobs? No.

Shotgunners? Heck yes!!
 
I have to admit, I'd love to show up at the skeet feild with a saiga.

Done it. Mine's even converted to the pistol grip and traditional stock. Complete with a railed forend with a Magpul AFG on it. The looks you get are pretty epic. Problem is, when set up like a defensive shotgun, the rifle type sights on the top make is hard to track on birds, it doesn't swing well, and the stock I have on there needs a decent cheek piece and another inch LOP on there in order to point even remotely consistently for me. Great for defensive work. Lousy for clay games. But oh, the looks... :D

I own CHEAP Mossberg 500's...
Pump guns are in a different world than the double barreled guns. You just don't find expensive pumps; they aren't needed or desired by the market. The difference between a $200 NEF Parder or Mossberg Maverick and a $550 Remington 870 or Benelli Nova isn't near as much as you'd find between a $800 Mossberg Black Onyx and a $2200 Browning Cynergy. In both cases the expensive one is 175% as much as the cheaper one, but it's a different world. I don't know that you're getting a gun almost 200% better in the case of the 870 vs. Maverick. In the Black Onyx vs. the Cynergy, you might well be. Now, not every shooter will notice that difference, but just because you don't notice it doesn't mean that the cheap one is every bit "just as good as." "Fits my needs" is not "every bit as good as."
 
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