What to do - Armed Robbery

Well, I can tell you what I did when I was robbed at gunpoint in my coin shop.

The guy had the drop on me.

He had his finger on the trigger. There were bullets in the cylinder.

He was shaking badly. I told him to calm down. ( I could just see him shootin me by ACCIDENT)

He said "Move over there."

I moved over there.

He said, "step back."

I stepped back.

He said, "Lay on the floor."

I laid on the floor

He came behind the counter and buzzed the door and let two more guys in.

Figuring that not looking at them would make them LESS likely to put a round in the back of my head, I didn't look at them.

They said "get up and get in the bathroom."

I got in the bathroom. THEY checked the bathroom.

FORTUNATELY.....they were STUPID and moved the GOLD to steal some silver and cash.

When I talked to the cops, I mentioned how pissed I was that I didn't go for my gun. The head detective told me that when a guy HAS his gun out, you
"s*** his d***" if he wants you to.

Maybe right.....maybe wrong.....but I'm posting today.

;) :eek:

Oh yeh....while I was in the bathroom, I stuffed my shirt with every magazine and paper that was layin around.

???
 
Lavan,
You're certainly here to tell the tale, but I wouldn't make it a standard practice to comply with demands such as those. You went from a one on one confrontation to a three on one [whatever they have in mind] by complying. You were extremely lucky.
 
However, he then moves to give your pockets a quick check to make sure they are empty and somehow then notices (by sight or feel or both) that you may be carrying. At this point, what would you do? He already has his gun out.
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You don't have your gun in your hand, he has a gun out and notices you have a gun in your pants? You rely on the odds and smile meekly and say "Looks like you got me, should I hand you my gun or do you want to just take it?" And then you hope that he doesn't shoot you. Or, you could try to bust a John Wayne move and hope you can get him and his back-up man who is hiding out of sight or sitting in the getaway car with a shotgun before either one of them blows your brains out.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and risk offending some of you so let me forewarn you - it is not my intent. I am merely making an observation or two.

First, I think most people agree that if someone has the drop on you your choices are limited and taking the fight to the threat is better than relying on the good graces of someone who has demonstrated he has no good graces. Some have offered a general idea of what they would do while others have gotten more specific. Neither side is wrong per se, but some seem to think so hence the comments from either side. I'll not comment on some posts that, IMHO, are too outlandish to be of any real value.

What we must remember is that chaos is king in these situations. You may have time to move, you may not. The threat might be someone who is new to the game or he might be a seasoned vet with icewater in his viens. He might be high, might not. The fact is we don't know before it happens and when it is happening there are so many things going on (and through both your minds) that things can change rapidly. These are fluid situations and trying to tell someone their plan contains too much/too little because it does not conform to what you think will happen is short sighted.

Fights are a nasty business. Sometimes they end well, sometimes not, and sometimes there is no clear winner. We must be prepared (as stated in a few posts above) to be shot or stabbed and keep fighting. There is a rule that states that proximity negates skill. This is true. The closer you are to the threat the better the chance of you becoming involved in an animal brawl for survival and you can bet that most of the stuff people think of to do will fly out the window when the shoe drops. Should we train? Yes. Should we go nuts straight out the gate? No. But what we should do is not fall into the trap of assuming that things will go a certain way or that anything we learn (or think we know) will be of use when it happens. We may be able to use all, some, or none of it.

The situation dictates the action we take and those actions must be based on sound training. Just remember that goblins don't train like we do, read the same things we do, or care about the things we do. Therefore they will not do what we often expect.

Just my two cents.
 
Aw, c'mon fix...

... you aren't giving it real thought ;)

I said that some might think it sounds nutty, but by putting it in the proper perspective, it becomes .... well, sort of cute. If you like that one, maybe you might want to hear about my Penguin Positive Umbrella idea. :D


Yes. It's terribly reminiscent of a certain fellow who planned to tape ballistic plates to himself. ... Sorry, I just can't get all worked up about the pocket sized ballistic shield idea.
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Say dude, you aren't comparing my post with the Mall Ninja, are you? Now, that was a class act!

Getting back to the serious mien expected here, having a dummy wallet weighted and more controllable when you toss it has a distinct advantage. If you weight it with a plate instead of used batteries, you add something of minimal value to your plan but you add something at no cost. Adding the weight is the main benefit, weighting it with something that doesn't change or enhance the tactics - might be a minor benefit. It would be interesting to hear from someone with qualified knowledge on plates. I haven't a clue as to how well it would work, whether it is a waste of time or has some benefit.
 
What we must remember is that chaos is king in these situations. ...The fact is we don't know before it happens and when it is happening there are so many things going on (and through both your minds) that things can change rapidly. These are fluid situations ....

... you can bet that most of the stuff people think of to do will fly out the window when the shoe drops. Should we train? Yes. ...But what we should do is not fall into the trap of assuming that things will go a certain way ...

The situation dictates the action we take and those actions must be based on sound training. ...they will not do what we often expect.
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<Insert Standing ovation>



I'm always undecided about "The bad guys will do THIS!" kind of posts. Do I laugh? Or cry?
 
You BETCHA I got lucky.

I ....CHANGED.....EVERYTHING......after that first episode. I had the false security of a controlled entrance. BZZZZZZT.....wrong!

The secured entrance ASSURES the perp that he will be left alone while he does his thing. I changed the bars and security to where people could come and go at will with no barrier to entrance or exit. Instead I changed to locking ME in a cage. Oh golly, is this a robbery? Please don't shoot or I won't be able to give you anything and you can't get in to TAKE it.

NO MORE safe facing customers. Safe afterwards faced ME. AND I had a safe door between me and customers while I searched for stuff.

GUN FIRST......I thwarted a subsequent ....attempt....by NOW ....FINALLY...being aware! Hot day, overcoat, fast move into coat....MY gun out.....low hold....him cussing.....me telling him not to move hand.....his buddy coming in from hiding around doorjamb.....both leaving and cussing me out.

You ....think....you're ready, but you're not. However, if you get ONE lucky break, you LEARN fast.

But that stupid controlled exit is the stupidest move. I had several subsequent incidents where ....wrong..... looking fellas took a look around, saw customers entering behind them and just.....left.

Also gave up the .380 and changed to .357 snub and several VISIBLE guns ALWAYS within reach.

And added video, secret codes, all that. We had a phrase that meant "KILL THIS GUY NOW" Fortunately, never used it.

Also developed and trained to say, "Oh hell, what did you DO? Lookit all the COPS in the parkin lot." They ....would.....turn to look.

And......then...............

:D
 
I've been robbed at knife point once it was over when I gave him my cash.Later was able to identify him ,judge gave him 35 yrs.Had another one try at which point I was lucky enough to get to my Makarov before he got me into a bind.I had a job back then that caused me to go into rough parts of town at odd hours.
 
"Say you are approached by a fellow who then points a pistol at you and demands all your money."

Around here you'd better look over your shoulder for his friend or friends before you commence to bobbing and weaving and trying to outdraw him. They work in pairs or small groups and you're likely to get a pipe or brick upside the back of your head.

There's a possibility the group has more than one gun, but it's more than likely that they sold the extras already to buy more crack.

John
 
I carry everything I need in a neck wallet and money clip. My wallet is a gun. It has a single shot hammerless derringer (a Downsizer 45 ACP) in it. I made the wallet. It snaps around the weapon and has a hole for me to slip my finger into the trigger guard. I would merely act like I was handing over my "wallet" and shoot the BG in the chest with my left hand while drawing my primary weapon with my right hand to unleash some more 230 gr JHP fury.

I practice the technique at the range in the off hours while there aren't other people around to observe, except for the rangemasters via camera.
 
19114ever,

I made the wallet. It snaps around the weapon and has a hole for me to slip my finger into the trigger guard.
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You may already be aware of this, but in case you weren't, the ATF declared wallet holsters that the gun could be fired from to be NFA items (AOWs) some ten or so years ago.
 
1911-
Be aware that that particular rig (to the extent it allows you to fire from the "wallet") is regulated by BATF as something other than a firearm. In fact, unless they've changed their stance, it falls into the restricted category of AOW "Any Other Weapon".

Tread carefully.
Rich
 
[Tamara]"You may already be aware of this, but in case you weren't, the ATF declared wallet holsters that the gun could be fired from to be NFA items (AOWs) some ten or so years ago."

... See what happens when a tax collection agency gets to decide what is taxable?
 
Yes. It's terribly reminiscent of a certain fellow who planned to tape ballistic plates to himself.
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What was the Ultimate Rejoinder to that one? Oh, yeah...

"If your Plan A involves taking multiple .308 hits, I would come up with a Plan B. Good luck."
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:D ;)

I have to agree with those who've said that it's a fluid situation. The keys, IMHO, are to:

A) Plan for every situation you can.

B) Know that once the SHTF, plans are rough guidelines at best. Be prepared to change them at a moment's notice depending on the situation.

C) Act with resolve. There are lines that should not be crossed, and if they are, know that you ARE going to die if you don't take some sort of action, ie; being forced into a car...being shot, stabbed, etc....noticing your assailant is whacked out on some substance or another. At that point, give it everything you've got, no matter how bad you hurt--the alternative is far worse.

In a life-or-death situation, or a potential one, flexibility may very well make the difference. Now that I've tossed in my couple o' coppers, we now return to your regularly scheduled Tactical Board.
 
I agree with most everything so far, but it seems that in this particular situation, with relatively open area around in which to run, the first and hopefully only thing I'm going to do is to escape with the help of my LPCs (leather personnel carriers - tennis shoes). I would flat out bolt instantly at a 90 degree angle to the perp, then started zigzagging. If there's room to run, I run. I *might* or might not precede the running with an attempt at knocking/pushing the gun/gun hand away to delay a first shot. Hopefully the perp will view it as a lost cause and not shoot. If, OTOH, there is no room to run, then a lot of stuff already discussed above comes into play - but my primary focus will be on wrestling the gun away from the perp - if his finger is in the trigger guard, and you grab the barrel/muzzle, and twist it straight up 90 degrees, you'll probably break his trigger finger (try it with you buddy in slow motion). This will likely result in you having his gun. Then better look around quick for his buddies.

Tam, just cuz the BATFE says a wallet holster is an AOW doesn't necessarily make it so - you could still make an argument that that ruling by them is contrary to the law as made by Congress, or that they are acting ultra vires by declaring a piece of leather that is removable from a perfectly legal handgun an AOW. Absurd. In short, screw the screwin' BATFE. (if you have the time and money to fight them in court, that is). :)

The compliance with the BG issue brings to mind that phrase - "If I die, it ain't gonna be for lack of shootin' back" - someone please tell me what movie that was?
 
With-in five feet, NICE!!!! Pain infliction very nice, BG on the floor with his gun in my pocket and my CCW in his mouth till the PD gets there, senerio ended.

Further than five feet, I don't carry money in the wallet, wallet to me is for plastic and collecting junk, like receipts etc. so i'll through the cash close enough to me that he's within five feet, and proceed to destroy my oponent, now lets say i messed up and he was fast enough to get the loot and takes off, then the .45 comes out to play. and the checking my pockets thing would never happen, because at that point he would have been right where i wanted him to be.
 
Police training that I have seen teaches the officer to move laterally and fire on one or more armed, close range attackers. The opponents untrained, instinctive reaction is to duck to his rear. Happy trails.
 
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