What to do - Armed Robbery

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goosevr1

New member
Here's a scenario that I've been thinking about for a few days. Say you're a law abiding citizen with a CCW and happen to be carrying during a casual stroll in the neighborhood. Say you are approached by a fellow who then points a pistol at you and demands all your money. Since he's the guy with the gun, you happily hand over your wallet and anything he asks for.

However, he then moves to give your pockets a quick check to make sure they are empty and somehow then notices (by sight or feel or both) that you may be carrying. At this point, what would you do? He already has his gun out.

What other option do you have other than to hope you have a fast draw? How else can you resolve this situation? What if a complicating factor were to be added (you were walking with your wife for example).

Your feedback is well appreciated.
 
If the robber has gotten this close without you seeing him you have made a bad mistake - remember situational awareness?. At the point in which he pulls a gun you then draw you own and attempt to kil him as quickly as possible. Do not try to pacify him (he has already shown he will resort to violence) nor do you give him the chance to find your weapon when you will have even less of a chance to bring it into action.

The simple answer: attempt to draw and kill him before he kills you. And, oh yeah, expect to be shot - probably more than once at this range. :)
 
If he is, for whatever reason, within arm's length and holding a gun on you, you will remember why you practiced disarms and weapon retention skills. Hopefully. :o
 
Since he's the guy with the gun, you happily hand over your wallet and anything he asks for.
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I do no such thing. Instead, I happily toss my wallet 10' away from him on the side of his gun hand. If he's interested in keeping his gun trained on me, he'll likely reach across his body with his weak hand to pick up the wallet. When he reaches for my wallet, I take off running for cover. Running laterally of course to make myself a more difficult target.

Then I pull out my carry piece and defend myself if he continues to pursue me, or if he fires at me. More than likely, though, he'll get the wallet and leave.

I would do whatever is necessary to avoid being within arm's reach of the BG.
 
Except for once, I have never heard anyone who was held up by a single armed individual say that it was done at arms length. More often, the gun wielding perp makes the drop JUST BEYOND arms length. He's seen lots of movies in which the good guy kicks or wrestles the gun out of the bad guy's hand, and he isn't about to risk that happening to him.

If your gun is where your wallet should be, the only thing you need hand over is lead. Throw in some fancy footwork, and your opponent's dust.

Optionally, you can say something like: Can't we just get along?
 
I know all that 'better part of valor' stuff, but if he's got a gun out I'm going to presume he means me no good and will do my best to distract him long enough to take him out. I'm sick of these pukes owning the streets (and suburban jogging trails, and...), so if I have to go the tried by twelve versus carried by six route, I'm willing to do it.

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Have you any idea how disarming a false display of capitulation can be? Deception is a tactical weapon that is often ignored.
 
A man has his gun out, pointed on you, and probably his finger is on the trigger because he was trained by television and movies. And you think you will be able to draw your concealed carry piece, aim, and fire before he kills you dead? Oh, and your first shot is instantly fatal? While you have to do all that, all he has to do is press the trigger. Either disarm or attempt to distract.

One trick I picked up from a well respected instructor is that you drop your wallet when handing it over. When the BG reaches down to pick it up you have a window of opportunity to draw your own weapon. Or you may run to cover as noted above.

Trying to outdraw a man who already has pistol in hand is asking for him to put holes in your hide. But it's your hide I guess.
 
dev_null - No, actually only 2 posts mentioned a form of distraction, and only one of those offered a suggestion on how to do it.

You mentioned you would try to distract, but made no suggestion regarding how you would accomplish such a thing. At the risk of taking this thread in a different direction, if you have not thought through how you will employ the distraction, and trained with it, you will not do any such thing in a real fight. You will be behind the power curve and may end up with extra holes in your body that weren't there before. Now you may have thought these issues through and simply chose not to share them with us. But for others reading your post, who decide that sounds like a good idea, they should take it a step further and come up with ways to implement the technique before they have a need to use it.

All that aside, my post was directed at those who chose to stand there and fight it out.
 
Optionally, you can say something like: Can't we just get along?
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Aren't you supposed to preface that with "Kooombayah, kombayah!" ?

I suppose that just about every dirty trick in the book is called for. I like the one in which I already have my hand on my pocket piece whenever I get a bad vibration. No on knows the trouble they may see. Still, if someone gets the drop on you, you have to have a plan.

That is why you need to really concentrate on situational awareness and rolling plans as you move on. Flipping your dummy wallet off to the approptiate side and acting scared $hitless should reinstate some of your advantage of being armed, but you can't just rely on the gun.

If you are the average CCX carrier, chances are that you are a better shot and better trained than your assailant. Distance usually increases your advantage but being shot at while winning distance is a definite disadvantage. Your assailant has the initial advantages of being first on the draw and is actually executing a plan - and the BG will probably have done this before, i.e., the BG has combat experience and you probably only have training.

Again, situational awareness and having an evolving plan that fits it will offer you a leg up. But you have to train to do this, you can't just do it from scratch.

Since it is almost impossible to avoid all instances where your lebensraum is infringed upon, you need to train to combat such situations. That would include being able to use combatics or combatto or street fighting tactics or possibly a cane or an umbrella to get a few seconds advantage. If you can't draw and fire and start hitting a close target in a few seconds time while doing that or something similar, your chances of survival are pretty low if the BG ready to kill. I don't discount running offhand, as it might be a good tactic in a particular situation, but you need to incorporate use of your weapon into it, I think.
 
How will the BG know that you are reaching for your wallet? ;)

If he's expecting you to reach for your wallet and you reach for your roscoe, he will be none the wiser. When you surprise him with the roscoe rather than the wallet, you've just taken a nose dive right into the middle of his OODA loop and should use that to your advantage. You KNOW he is armed, but he doesn't know anything about you. Therefore, you will win the race to the magic 'A' if you have the proper mindset and are willing to resist. JMHO.
 
That's one possiblity that occurred to me, along with an additional distraction by holding out the off hand in a warding off maneuver while making conciliatory noises as if scared scatless. "Hey man, be cool, here's my money..."

Another would be to say "Here, take my knife" while SLOWLY pulling my spare mag out of the knife sheath on my left (offhand) side, while drawing with strong hand. As it's coming out of the sheath it just looks (at first, and with the mental image of a knife having been planted) like something shiny... like a knife and not a mag, IOW.

Other scenarios come to mind, and I have to think that one size does not fit all but rather that one would need to be flexible.

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There has to be movement of some sort to maintain some distance yet not spark a reaction. If you are too close, you risk close contact with the BG and point blank discharge. Then you suffer not only "getting shot" but a wider debilitation from the muzzle blast.

Has anyone ever thought of putting a cutdown ballistic plate in a dummy wallet? At first thought, it sounds nutty but if you think a bit, it could be of value. By extending the weak side hand with the dummy wallet - now a mini-ballistic shield - in line with the BG's weapon, you create a relatively large cone shaped shield.
...............Y
gun--->|xxO
...............U

You can extend the shield concept by sacrificing your weakside arm, adding an additional barrier to offset the initial disadvantage you have. Stick some green stuff in so that it visibly oozes out of the dummy wallet, wave it around and let BG know that you are willing to pay for your safety. Tell BG that there is an ATM card in it and that you have a 2K$ draw limit - they love that stuff and would probably like to force the victim to an ATM machine. Of course, they won't shoot the ATM owner because they need the pin code.

Mine is 1076. :D
 
Condition Yellow = All strangers are dangerous until proven otherwise. Tactical Advantage #1.

BG doesn't know you're armed. Tactical Advantage #2.

How many fractions of a second do you need to draw, move, and fire on your opponent? Practice, practice, practice.

Now then... When BG gets the drop on you,

1. Implement a ruse. Cast a few furtive glances over his shoulder while pretending to comply with his demand, as if mindlessly alerting him to someone else's presence. He won't fall for the oldest trick in the book if you overplay your hand, so act naturally.

2. Does BG back off a little and check his six? If "No", Go To 9.

3. Draw.

4. Move.

5. Double-tap at CNS/COM.

6. Is BG still a threat? If "Yes", Go To 4.

7. Stop.

8. End

9. Continue to act harmless. Convince him that you are no threat to him and that you are completely willing to do as he wants. Add a few reassurances like "Sure thing, Boss!" or "You da man!" Go for your wallet, which is really your gun, and get ready for action, all the while flooding BG with obsequious gestures. The point is to elongate his fuse. Oh, and wipe the "Boy, if you only knew what you got comin' to you" look off your face, as this will surely kill your advantage, and consequently you. Go To 3.
 
Please tell me you're kidding.
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You mean about the dummy wallet with a cut-down plate in it?

My wallet is c. 4" x 5". Assume you use one of your old wallets, slide a 3.75"x4.5" plate in it, pad it with 1$ bills that show edges and you have what looks like a nice take. Remember, the plate is an added bonus. Go on, hold your wallet out. The closer you are to the BG, the larger the relative area it blocks. It also has more weight and will go where you toss it with less obvious motion, if you choose to abandon this nifty little shield . Just look at it as couple of percentage points you add to your side of the scale.

The rest of it falls under deception, confusion and distraction. Confused? See it works. ;)

If the arm sacrifice seems out in left field, check out cases about people taking shots in the hand and arms in shootings. The French W. Anderson analysis of the FBI Miami firefight showed a number of FBI agents (4 out of 7) wounded in that manner and both semi-autos and wheel guns unserviceable due to bits of human material in the cylinders. Both of the BGs, Matix and Platte were similarly wounded. Had to do with their shooting stance putting the hands at a relative relationship to COM - similar to the dummy wallet - which is what shooters are trained to aim for.

You can find a concise summary of this report at Tactical Firearms Institute, Tactical Briefs #7, July 1998.

You have to be prepared to take hits and keep fighting in combat. I'm not saying look for them, but taking them in a non-essential part of you is a better option. If the BG has a knife, you will most surely face getting cut - same analogy; better getting your weakside hand/arm sliced than getting torso perforations.
 
You mean about the dummy wallet with a cut-down plate in it?
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Yes. It's terribly reminiscent of a certain fellow who planned to tape ballistic plates to himself.

Sorry, I just can't get all worked up about the pocket sized ballistic shield idea. ;)
 
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