What is the L&P forum for?

sorry. I thought my thread could stick to the legal and political issues without moving into the moral or religious issues. :o
 
Just so I have this straight:
Some of the community cannot be trusted to discuss these topics in an adult, rational manner....so we just ban them from discussion by the entire community?

Funny how much this parallels the whole "gun control" debate
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See, there, GoSlash. A case in point. You are unable to discern between God Given Rights which no government may trample and Voluntary Rules of Comportment while on Invite-Only Private Property. That's what I refer to when I speak of this sense of Birthright to discuss what you please here....it rivals others' demands to discuss in the fashion they choose. And it makes just as little sense when it's on my dime.

See the difference now?

tyme-
I hope we can end this sidetrack about handles right here.
Let's take your argument as advice. What you are suggesting is that I'm pretty foolish along with the rest of Staff for making our identities known. We have flagged ourselves for all manner of mischief.

The only logical conclusion, then, would be for us to continue acting the fool so that people like TheShootist, AfghanMerc and ApplyLeadPRN can have some fun; or wise up and shut the board down?????

I think not.
Every privilege carries with it a responsibility. And Membership here is certainly a privilege. Were Staff to come to the conclusion that Real Names are required (and no one is seriously suggesting this), that injures no Member. There's plenty of places where Handles are welcome. But, when I have to deal with the Walter Mitty fantasy life of KillEmAllLetGodSortEmOut it injures my sense of how I choose to donate my hard earned dollars to this cause we call Freedom.

Remember http://www.hardcoretalk.com ? Well it's back.
Rich
 
Rich Lucibella wrote:
I find it funny how people can take a Free Service and develop a sense of birthright that they should be allowed to use it on their own terms. Last I checked, this was a Private Board. Last I checked, I pay for this service and Staff puts in the voluntary effort to make it work. Seems to me we have a bit of a right to set the rules and revoke the invites.
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Yup. This is the thing guests need to keep in mind: They're on private property.

There is a forum that used to be my favourite. After seeing at least the third thread into which I'd devoted considerable thought deleted, arbitrarily, I thought, I decided it would be best if me and that forum simply parted ways. So I asked them to whack my account and I left. You see: Despite the fact I felt the ownership of that forum was clearly in the wrong, and was clearly behaving in an arbitrary and capricious manner: It didn't matter. It's the forum owner's property. He has the right to behave on it however he wishes.

You can't argue your "rights" on somebody else's property. Well... more accurately: You probably can't win ;)
 
Experienced salesmen say that following the "thirty words or thirty seconds" rule is a good way of keeping "your foot out of your mouth". The sad thing is that I haven't learned this yet. But then again, I'm not selling anything but my (worthless) opinion.
 
Is there a part of that which needs further explanation?
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Not for me, since I replied in context. Maybe you were addressing someone else?

I find it funny how people can take a Free Service and develop a sense of birthright that they should be allowed to use it on their own terms. Last I checked, this was a Private Board. Last I checked, I pay for this service and Staff puts in the voluntary effort to make it work. Seems to me we have a bit of a right to set the rules and revoke the invites.
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I quoted that whole piece because I want it up there again to say this: I'm tired of that rant. So are a lot of others here. Every single person here or on any other forum) KNOWS that it is provided essentially gratis. Meanwhile, questioning your logic in NO WAY implies anyone feels they have a "birthright" to anything. It means we wonder exactly what it is going through your mind, lately, and it would be nice to stick to that without expanding it to some fantasy breadth.

Seems to me, the last time some Twinkie visited here for the first and last time, 24 hours before he attempted murder and committed suicide, the investigative heat came down on me and this Staff.
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So? As already asked, what would real names or real ID have mattered? You might have been able to shorten a step for the authorities, depending on the circumstances.

Seems to me, the last time a Twinkie decided he was gonna do something about our Rules, he reported an LEO Staff Member here to his department for "misuse of public equipment". That was lots of fun for the Staff Member involved.
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Nevermind the fact I personally believe there is far too high a concentration of LEO around here, again, so what? Having what you assume was a real name would have stopped this? I assure you, if I wanted to do something, whatever it may be, your knowing my name wouldn't even slow me down. I'm a big boy, I accept the consequences of my actions and I suspect most others still do, also. (which should not be construed as my thinking the scenerio you describe was not beneath contempt by the Twinkie in question)

So, please....don't feel it's all about you.
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My ego has always been my greatest weakness. As such it's what I've fought to eliminte most, so I don't fall in to such a trap these days. OTOH it seems as if you might be, but I could be wrong. :cool:
 
Nevermind the fact I personally believe there is far too high a concentration of LEO around here, again, so what?
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Not to digress but I personally prefer to hang out with cops as opposed to "Twinks". Bet a lot of other non cop haters feel that way too.

WildbacktothesubjectathandAlaska

PS seems to me that this whole debate is essentially moot...Rich wants HIS Board to follow certain guidlines or to go in a certain direction...why is there even a quarrel with it?...after all, if you joined a Board devoted to Chevy Trucks would you get your panties in a wad over the fac t that your posts regarding Kia were tossed.
 
It's the man's Board, so he sets the rules. Nobody forced you to join up, and there's nobody forcing you to continue here.

The old adage was that "there are three things that you never talk to strangers about. They're religion, politics, and sex." It appears that it's still true.

I like the Board. I agree to abide by the rules (already did). I don't have a problem with the LEO faction, either. :)
 
Where is Clyde he would love the twinky thing.

He is into calling them cupcakes, LOL.

SWAT magazine implies one thing and does another. (not a complaint just a statement). I believe Rich walks a fine line and does a good job at what this board does and what his magazine does.

It is his board and so he make'a the rules and the moderators enforce them along with their input. I believe it is healthy for others input and to discuss it.

But like in college you are pretty much going to do what the course wants out of you.

Like Wildalaska mentioned, ditto.

HQ:cool:
 
Rich Lucibella said:
What you are suggesting is that I'm pretty foolish along with the rest of Staff for making our identities known. We have flagged ourselves for all manner of mischief.
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Foolish? Your word, not mine. You just bear slightly more risk. You're free to require people to accept that additional risk as a condition of membership. I won't, at least not if it's required.

Wildalaska said:
Rich wants HIS Board to follow certain guidlines or to go in a certain direction...why is there even a quarrel with it?
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He posted this idea (requiring real names) on a public forum. Are we who dissent supposed to bite our tongues? I'm fairly sure Rich doesn't want that. He even withdrew his proposal for TFL RealID, claiming that he wasn't serious.
 
He posted this idea (requiring real names) on a public forum. Are we who dissent supposed to bite our tongues? I'm fairly sure Rich doesn't want that. He even withdrew his proposal for TFL RealID, claiming that he wasn't serious.
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Seem to me that as Staff, you guys would better off dissenting or discussing that among yourselves...

As to me, everyone knows who I am and where I work and my phone number and a good percentage of members have even had the scary experience of chatting with me on the phone (including you, yes?) so if real names are required Ill just toss mine on. No biggie. Then again I'm only a jerk part of the time so know no one is going to toss a dead cat down my well.

WildihopeAlaska
 
Seem to me that as Staff, you guys would better off dissenting or discussing that among yourselves...
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Sometimes, you really step on it Wild. tyme did approach me privately. I encouraged him to go public. tyme and I can disagree without it becoming personal. His input is always valid; his logic inevitably worthy of examination; even when I don't agree.


Enough on the handles, now. This thread is not about that.

2nd, my analogy was clear, I'd hoped. You used a (already dismissed) comment by me to tell us all about the horrors of just being the real you. I simply pointed up that Staff, too, can play the "poor me" game. Your reaction to that is exactly what it should be...."So What"; and you are right. But my point was that this is precisely the reaction your stalking story elicits.

Now do you see the point?
Rich
 
Sometimes, you really step on it Wild. tyme did approach me privately. I encouraged him to go public. tyme and I can disagree without it becoming personal. His input is always valid; his logic inevitably worthy of examination; even when I don't agree.
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Well apologies then, note that that wasnt entirely to me clear that staff had already discussed it and it was being opened up to members for discussion.

And I agree that this thread is not about handles, however since I already agree with the direction you are taking, I dont need to comment further:D

WildouchithurtsAlaska
 
Thanks Rich

I for one, like it here. This is the "neatest" place i have found on the internet. I am not particulary computer savy, and could never manage anything even remotely like this.

I think Rich and the moderators should get a "thank you" and a "well done", for everything they do and have had to go through.

I realize I am a guest in someone else's home, and try to comport myself in accordance with their wishes. I believe one of the basic rules of hospitality is that you don't fight in your host's home.

I am happy to comply with ANY reasonable policy, and if I find it unreasonable, I an happy to thank you, and leave.

I believe I can occasionally contribute something worthwhile to the discussions, and can do so under the stated policy guidelines. If, at any time, my input is deemed unacceptable, if informed, I will apoligise, and try and rephrase my opinion into something more polite. After all, I am a guest. After all, it ain't very smart to p*** off people who have a lot of guns.
 
I see you don't have one here, Rich. You CHOOSE to be staff and you CHOOSE to apply your real names. Your decisions, your business. The other side of the coin was a desire(however unrealized or "dismissed") to require that others(everyone) do the same. AFTER the fact. Thus changing the rules. ALSO, thus incurring an even greater liability on your part.

See the point?
 
The product determines the clientele.

Rich has voiced some desire to have a slightly different clientele. Since Rich pays the bills and the staff contributes their work, it is their prerogative to change the product. It seems that the only question is whether a product can be defined that would attract the desired clientele.

In my opinion, the product is excellent, although there is always opportunity for improvement.
 
I "chose" to use my real name?
You're darned tootin', I did;
- Just like you "chose" to take from a service which asks neither your money, your Membership, your intellectual contribution, nor your attention to constantly rotating Banner Ads; a service that asks only that you remember this is a Private Board.
- Just like you "chose" not to build a better mousetrap on your own.

AFTER the fact
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Let's pursue this a bit, 2nd....and it has nothing to do with your desire to hide your identity. It has to do with my right to determine who and what gets posted on this board. Let's pursue it a bit because, in those 3 words, you betray an attitude that is quite extraordinary.

"After the fact" of what?
- After the fact that you took all that time to register?
- After the fact that you've enjoyed the benefits of this site for 6 years?
- After the fact that you've posted for 6 years and are somehow "owed" something?
- After the fact that you perhaps discarded my right to determine what is acceptable or unacceptable under my roof?

Or could it be "After the fact" that you agreed to a Policy which states "we reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to edit or delete posts and/or to revoke Membership." (Highlighted portion taken straight from the original.)

After the fact of what, 2nd? This deserves an answer.
Rich
 
Rich, i read most of what you post as it relates to this board [ie = yours as you keep pointing out] noting [sadly] how your attitude has gone south over the last few months.

What did you expect when you started this place? Have your goals changed along the way as to the mission statement and or what you perceive as the clientèle should live up to your "expectations" as it were.

In a perfect world, yea. But not here or any other firearm enthusiast board on the net. I come here to relax and enjoy the diversity of discussion relating to many items. I think others do as well, coming here to join others with a common bond and have FUN talking about firearms and the community that we share.

With the camaraderie and fun drained away, what's left?

Charlie Homrighouse aka 12-34hom.
 
I have a subscription to the magazine which means you have my information. I have done business with folks on the board which means they have my information. I have made a purchase with WildAlaska which means he has my information. Its not like we are totally anonymous and nameless to everybody on the board.
 
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