What if it comes down to a situation where John McCain cannot win?
- Thread starter Danzig
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If you have any doubts where Osama/Obama (Teddy's name for him) Hussein (his real name) stands on guns, check this out --> http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=3991
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Just when you think most members of this forum are above such sleazy tactics...
MeekAndMild
New member
If it comes to a point where Mr. McCain can't win then I'll keep supporting him and hope that my efforts make is so costly for the "progressives" that they end up being destroyed by the campaign. (See Pyrrhic victory)
Sometimes you have to just do what's right. Maybe doing what is right means making sure the Democrats have to pay more than they ever feared for their majority, then watching them screw up so royally over the next 4 years that they will go the way of the Whigs and the Wobblies.
Sometimes you have to just do what's right. Maybe doing what is right means making sure the Democrats have to pay more than they ever feared for their majority, then watching them screw up so royally over the next 4 years that they will go the way of the Whigs and the Wobblies.
I would start by checking to see which state you live in, and how your state typically voted in recent Presidential elections, then look at polling data to see whether the trend is projected to continue. The outcome in states like California, New York, Illinois, and Massachusetts will probably be virtually certain by election day.
WINSTON THE WOLF
Moderator
I will support the NRA...............This time around. Atleast I know where they are coming from. The candiates flip flop so much I am getting sick
and for the future. I will be supporting Ron pauls http://www.campaignforliberty.com/
and for the future. I will be supporting Ron pauls http://www.campaignforliberty.com/
Most people who will vote for McCain will vote for him because they like McCain, not because they are "holding their noses." Millions and millions of Republicans chose McCain over Ron Paul, Hunter, Romney, and all of the others because they viewed McCain as a better candidate than Ron Paul, Hunter, Romney, and all of the others.
Regardless, the question is illogical, because it is asking if McCain can't win, will you vote for someone else who will lose even worse than McCain will lose.
If the Patriots lose their big game by 10 points, will you hold your nose and vote for the Broncos, who will lose their big game by 90 points? 
The third party candidate will surely receive less votes than McCain because of the simple reason that less people want to vote for the the third party candidate. There's no super-conspiracy here. The Libertarian Party candidate will garner far fewer votes than McCain because there are so few people who agree with the Libertarian Party and their candidate. If you have to hold your nose to vote for McCain, you'll have to chop your head off to vote for Barr.
Regardless, the question is illogical, because it is asking if McCain can't win, will you vote for someone else who will lose even worse than McCain will lose.
If the Patriots lose their big game by 10 points, will you hold your nose and vote for the Broncos, who will lose their big game by 90 points? The third party candidate will surely receive less votes than McCain because of the simple reason that less people want to vote for the the third party candidate. There's no super-conspiracy here. The Libertarian Party candidate will garner far fewer votes than McCain because there are so few people who agree with the Libertarian Party and their candidate. If you have to hold your nose to vote for McCain, you'll have to chop your head off to vote for Barr.
armedtotheteeth
New member
Obama is as crooked as a dogs back leg. I wouldnt vote for that oxygen thief if he was the last vote on the ballot. That SOB will NEVER be my president. I like all of the libertarians pro gun stances, but, however, I will not waste my vote on them. I am a realist. I know a vote not for Mcain is a vote against him, therefore McCain. he is our only hope against these gun grabbin idiots that want to ban guns because they have a grip or shroud, ( something to hang on to) or a pistol grip ( because they are easier to shoot from the hip) whatever!! you guys out there that are voting for Bob Barr or any of the 30 other libertarian guys need to really think about who is going to be running our country.it will either be MCCain, or Obama if it is Obama, after he is elected , you will be considered a criminal within a month for owning guns. I dont really like MCCain either, but, again he is what we pro gunners have. Maybe even he can help lower these ridiculus gas prices. I just filled up my Chevy pickup and it was 110$
Playboypenguin
Moderator
I hate to interrupt a good hysterical rant, but would you mind educating me on just how Obama would accomplish this feat?
armedtotheteeth
New member
well, actually it is onbly in his mind, but he wants to:
Obama: Supporting the Rights and Traditions of Sportsmen
Protecting Gun Rights
Respect the Second Amendment: Millions of hunters own and use guns each year. Millions more participate in a variety of shooting sports such as sporting clays, skeet, target and trap shooting that may not necessarily involve hunting. As a former constitutional law professor, Barack Obama believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right and he greatly respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting. He also believes that the right is subject to reasonable and commonsense regulation.
Pittsburg Tribune-Review
Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote
April 2, 2008
"I am not in favor of concealed weapons," Obama said. "I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
The Sun Times News Group
The past haunts Obama?
December 7, 2007
"...
The Obama campaign Tuesday disavowed a questionnaire he submitted to the Independent Voters of Illinois-Independent Precinct Organization in 1996 to support his state Senate candidacy.
"Obama never saw the '96 IVI-IPO state Senate questionnaire -- it was filled out by a staffer who unintentionally mischaracterized his views on a number of issues," said Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt. LaBolt said the staffer was then-Obama state Senate campaign manager Carol Harwell, who could not be reached Tuesday for comment."
If actions speak louder than words, votes scream. They must be considered the ultimate expression of a position. So how does Barack explain how his voting pattern matches his questionnaire responses?"
2003 Independent Voters of Illinois – Independent Precinct Organization Questionnaire. "35. Do you support legislation to ban the manufacture, sale and possession of
a. handguns?
While a complete ban on handguns is not politically practicable, I believe reasonable restrictions on the sale and possession of handguns are necessary to protect the public safety. In the Illinois Senate last year, I supported a package of bills to limit individual Illinoisans to purchasing one handgun a month; require all promoters and sellers at firearms shows to carry a state license; allow civil liability for death or injuries caused by handguns; and require FOID applicants to apply in person. I would support similar efforts at the federal level, including retaining the Brady Law.
b. assault weapons?
Yes.
c. ammunition for handguns and assault weapons?
I would support banning the sale of ammunition for assault weapons and limiting the sale of ammunition for handguns.
36. Do you support legislation
a. mandating background checks of purchasers of weapons at gun shows, through the internet and through print advertisements?
Yes.
b. increasing penalties for illegal resale of weapons?
Yes."
The Chicago Tribune
November 20, 2007
"Court To Hear Gun Case"
"But the campaign of Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said that he "...believes that we can recognize and respect the rights of law-abiding gun owners and the right of local communities to enact common sense laws to combat violence and save lives. Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constititional."
Senator Obama's website "...the passage of legal protection for the gun industry would mark an enormous setback for gun control advocates and for leaders of cities such as Chicago, who have filed suit against gun dealers and manufacturers."
The Black CoMMentator "Thus, while I may favor common-sense gun control laws, that doesn’t keep me from reaching out to NRA members who are worried about their lack of health insurance."
The Chicago Tribune "I believe we need to renew--not roll back--this common sense gun law," Obama said. - In reference to the 1994 AWB."
The Audacity of Hope, p.215 Oct 1, 2006
"I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer's lobby. "
1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998 "Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms."
Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999
h/t: Volokh
"Obama is proposing to make it a felony for a gun owner whose firearm was stolen from his residence which causes harm to another person if that weapon was not securely stored in that home.
He's proposing restricting gun purchases to one weapon a month and banning the sale of firearms at gun shows except for "antique" weapons. Obama is also proposing increasing the licensing fee to obtain a federal firearms license. ....
He's proposing that all federally licensed gun dealers sell firearms in a storefront and not from their homes while banning their business from being within five miles of a school or a park. He's also banning the sale of 'junk" handguns like the popular Saturday Night Specials."
1996 Independent Voters of Illinois – Independent Precinct Organization Questionnaire.
"35. Do you support state legislation ???
a. ban the manufacture, sale or possession of handguns?
Yes.
b. ban the manufacture, sale or possession of assault weapons?
Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods with background checks for weapons?
Yes.
[ Back ]
Obama: Supporting the Rights and Traditions of Sportsmen
Protecting Gun Rights
Respect the Second Amendment: Millions of hunters own and use guns each year. Millions more participate in a variety of shooting sports such as sporting clays, skeet, target and trap shooting that may not necessarily involve hunting. As a former constitutional law professor, Barack Obama believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right and he greatly respects the constitutional rights of Americans to bear arms. He will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport and use guns for the purposes of hunting and target shooting. He also believes that the right is subject to reasonable and commonsense regulation.
Pittsburg Tribune-Review
Candidates' gun control positions may figure in Pa. vote
April 2, 2008
"I am not in favor of concealed weapons," Obama said. "I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations."
The Sun Times News Group
The past haunts Obama?
December 7, 2007
"...
The Obama campaign Tuesday disavowed a questionnaire he submitted to the Independent Voters of Illinois-Independent Precinct Organization in 1996 to support his state Senate candidacy.
"Obama never saw the '96 IVI-IPO state Senate questionnaire -- it was filled out by a staffer who unintentionally mischaracterized his views on a number of issues," said Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt. LaBolt said the staffer was then-Obama state Senate campaign manager Carol Harwell, who could not be reached Tuesday for comment."
If actions speak louder than words, votes scream. They must be considered the ultimate expression of a position. So how does Barack explain how his voting pattern matches his questionnaire responses?"
2003 Independent Voters of Illinois – Independent Precinct Organization Questionnaire. "35. Do you support legislation to ban the manufacture, sale and possession of
a. handguns?
While a complete ban on handguns is not politically practicable, I believe reasonable restrictions on the sale and possession of handguns are necessary to protect the public safety. In the Illinois Senate last year, I supported a package of bills to limit individual Illinoisans to purchasing one handgun a month; require all promoters and sellers at firearms shows to carry a state license; allow civil liability for death or injuries caused by handguns; and require FOID applicants to apply in person. I would support similar efforts at the federal level, including retaining the Brady Law.
b. assault weapons?
Yes.
c. ammunition for handguns and assault weapons?
I would support banning the sale of ammunition for assault weapons and limiting the sale of ammunition for handguns.
36. Do you support legislation
a. mandating background checks of purchasers of weapons at gun shows, through the internet and through print advertisements?
Yes.
b. increasing penalties for illegal resale of weapons?
Yes."
The Chicago Tribune
November 20, 2007
"Court To Hear Gun Case"
"But the campaign of Democratic presidential hopeful Barack Obama said that he "...believes that we can recognize and respect the rights of law-abiding gun owners and the right of local communities to enact common sense laws to combat violence and save lives. Obama believes the D.C. handgun law is constititional."
Senator Obama's website "...the passage of legal protection for the gun industry would mark an enormous setback for gun control advocates and for leaders of cities such as Chicago, who have filed suit against gun dealers and manufacturers."
The Black CoMMentator "Thus, while I may favor common-sense gun control laws, that doesn’t keep me from reaching out to NRA members who are worried about their lack of health insurance."
The Chicago Tribune "I believe we need to renew--not roll back--this common sense gun law," Obama said. - In reference to the 1994 AWB."
The Audacity of Hope, p.215 Oct 1, 2006
"I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer's lobby. "
1998 IL State Legislative National Political Awareness Test Jul 2, 1998 "Principles that Obama supports on gun issues:
Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.
Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms.
Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms."
Chicago Defender, Dec. 13, 1999
h/t: Volokh
"Obama is proposing to make it a felony for a gun owner whose firearm was stolen from his residence which causes harm to another person if that weapon was not securely stored in that home.
He's proposing restricting gun purchases to one weapon a month and banning the sale of firearms at gun shows except for "antique" weapons. Obama is also proposing increasing the licensing fee to obtain a federal firearms license. ....
He's proposing that all federally licensed gun dealers sell firearms in a storefront and not from their homes while banning their business from being within five miles of a school or a park. He's also banning the sale of 'junk" handguns like the popular Saturday Night Specials."
1996 Independent Voters of Illinois – Independent Precinct Organization Questionnaire.
"35. Do you support state legislation ???
a. ban the manufacture, sale or possession of handguns?
Yes.
b. ban the manufacture, sale or possession of assault weapons?
Yes.
c. mandatory waiting periods with background checks for weapons?
Yes.
[ Back ]
armedtotheteeth
New member
pretty much anything to remove repeal, erase or conceal any rights that where given to us over 200 years ago, and reafirmed by the Supreme court 2 days ago. i ll give it 2 him, he is a good speaker, and he could probably get a law passed through congress banning water for civilian use. The guy is nuts!!! The democratic congress woudl have little or no problem passing any Whacko laws at his whim.
Regardless
Obama is going to win in November, mark my words. I am not thrilled about it except for one thing. I hope it accomplishes two things. The democrats self-destruct and the GOP gets off its duff. Then in 2010 the Republicans can retake Congress or at least chip away at it and then find a real, true blue conservative for 2012.
Obama is going to win in November, mark my words. I am not thrilled about it except for one thing. I hope it accomplishes two things. The democrats self-destruct and the GOP gets off its duff. Then in 2010 the Republicans can retake Congress or at least chip away at it and then find a real, true blue conservative for 2012.
armedtotheteeth
New member
i half expect a registration requirement of all handguns , and a complete ban of all semi automatic assault rifles ( like come and get them) and he has already called out for a ban on ammo for "assault rifles" which is what ,223, 308, 7-62, 9mm, 30 carbine, 45, 30-06, 22, 204 ruger, and any of the other upper mods for Ar 15s and on and on.
45Marlin carbine
Moderator
I fear you're right roy - the presidency is Obama's to lose. G.B. has po'd so many people with his lies and incompetence that there's no way a Republican can keep the Prez. result of Obama Prez - hard to say but if the Dems pick up more Senate seats it could mean big changes ahead for the gunnys. Supreme court and U.S. court appointments will have a large bearing on 2 A also.
Kind of a switch... A third party supporter starting a thread about not voting for a candidate that can't win.
So soon after Heller... Are you SURE that's ALL they managed? It doesn't look that way to me. The justices appointed during that time voted unanimously for the constitution. The democrat appointed justices voted unanimously against. It's not reasonable to believe anything other than that the decision would have been 7 to 3 against had a democrat been in the White House instead of W. Talk about something that would REALLY destroy this country...
Polls can be very accurate. They can also be very inaccurate. Most importantly, the results can be skewed heavily by someone who knows "how to run a poll".
If I wanted my guy to win, I'd tell everyone that no one else had a chance in order to demotivate as many of my opponent's supporters as possible into not voting because they "know" it's pointless.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
Yes, I give no credit for this outcome to Bush. The court has been primarily conservative for years before he came along. This was not an intended outcome of his appointments. His appointments were more to assure cooperation when he breaks laws and violated civil liberties. This was just an unintended side effect. I will not loose sight of that just because of a recent victory. In fact I feel the decision would have been more pro-2a if America's social climate had not been pushed so far left by intense Bush hatred. Judges are affected by the national mindset.
Playboypenguin
Moderator
I am sure they are hoping that and are more than willing to take credit for something they never tried to accomplish rather than be remebered for what they really did to this country...and it seems a few here are willing to fall into that trap.
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