What beats a 308
- Thread starter Scottish Highlander
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Laddy,
If you are hunting in the Highlands, with the distances involved and the game available, then you can't do much better than the .308 (or 7.62 x 51, 7.62 NATO, etc., etc.). In fact, for hunting throughout the UK and Europe as well, you can't do much better.
You can't do much better than a Tikka T3, either.
If you simply want an additional rifle (and who doesn't), or a different rifle.... well, that is another matter indeed. The possibilities are almost endless.
If you are hunting in the Highlands, with the distances involved and the game available, then you can't do much better than the .308 (or 7.62 x 51, 7.62 NATO, etc., etc.). In fact, for hunting throughout the UK and Europe as well, you can't do much better.
You can't do much better than a Tikka T3, either.
If you simply want an additional rifle (and who doesn't), or a different rifle.... well, that is another matter indeed. The possibilities are almost endless.
If your rifle is "brilliant" take it from me and don't replace it. I once had a 30/06 that would consistently shoot sub MOA and I sold it to get a 300 Winchester Mag. Twenty some odd years later I'm still kicking myself
If you want a second rifle I'd look no further than the 7mm Remington Mag. Accurate, powerful, and low recoil are just some of its good points.
dalegribble
New member
+1 for the 7mm remington mag
tahunua001
New member
yes you do, your 308 is a 7.62mm round, almost anatomically identical to 7.62x51 NATO and so close that you can shoot 7.62x51 out of a 308(do not try in reverse order).
30-06 is a small step up but is a little better suited to long range hunting. if I was going for a full step up, as in looking for flatter shooting with a lot more oomph, I would go with a 300 magnum of some sort. 300 winchester magnum and 300 weatherby magnum are great cartridges for long range hunting but I can't vouch for availability in Scotland.
handlerer2
New member
I don't want to offend anyone of this forum, but I have to say that IMO, Tikkas are far from top of the line rifles. They are cheap and overpriced.
I will admit that I'm a rifle snob, I will only own rifles of certain criterion, I own two Weatherbys, 340WBY, and 300WBY, Cooper, Ruger 77. All of these meet certain requirements, They are solid bolts, receivers machined from a solid billet, and integral recoil lugs. Many of the most popular rifles don't possess these qualities. REm 700 Tikkas, Savage and even Browning have cut the corners to increase profits. They don't have solid bolts, most have receivers made from drilled out bar stock, and washered recoil lugs, and alloyed, fused, or hollow bolts. Yet they all have reputations for accuracy and reliability.
I once, like 1976, thought that my MDL700, 7mag was all there was. My uncle a gunsmith and Methodist minister, educated me about the way things really are. He said " What do think John Moses Browning, or Peter Mauser would say if you handed them a MDL 700 or a Tikka, nothing, the next sound you would hear would be the sound of them hitting the bottom of the dumpster" I rather resented it at the time. My late uncle left me a late 60's Weatherby MKV Deluxe,340WBY, a real work of art. I sold my Remingtons, and now own only Weatherbys, Coopers, and Rugers.
I don't mean to say that other less costly rifles are useless. Only don't confuse CNC machined accuracy with real quality. REm, Tikkas, Savages and Brownings are all perfectly serviceable, hunting tools, just call them what they are.
I have extensively examined Tikkas at several stores here in MT, and I just don't like some features they have or don't have. Like I said the receiver is drilled bar stock, the ejection port is much too small, the trigger guard, magazine are plastic, the recoil lugs are washers, and one size bolt fits all. At their price you could have a much more solid rifle IMO. They do have a very good trigger and a good hammerforged barrel. I think they should be no more expensive than a Marlin XS,or XL, Ruger American, Or Thompson Venture, or Howa-Vanguard.
I know that some will resent this rant, but I believe everything I said is true.
I will admit that I'm a rifle snob, I will only own rifles of certain criterion, I own two Weatherbys, 340WBY, and 300WBY, Cooper, Ruger 77. All of these meet certain requirements, They are solid bolts, receivers machined from a solid billet, and integral recoil lugs. Many of the most popular rifles don't possess these qualities. REm 700 Tikkas, Savage and even Browning have cut the corners to increase profits. They don't have solid bolts, most have receivers made from drilled out bar stock, and washered recoil lugs, and alloyed, fused, or hollow bolts. Yet they all have reputations for accuracy and reliability.
I once, like 1976, thought that my MDL700, 7mag was all there was. My uncle a gunsmith and Methodist minister, educated me about the way things really are. He said " What do think John Moses Browning, or Peter Mauser would say if you handed them a MDL 700 or a Tikka, nothing, the next sound you would hear would be the sound of them hitting the bottom of the dumpster" I rather resented it at the time. My late uncle left me a late 60's Weatherby MKV Deluxe,340WBY, a real work of art. I sold my Remingtons, and now own only Weatherbys, Coopers, and Rugers.
I don't mean to say that other less costly rifles are useless. Only don't confuse CNC machined accuracy with real quality. REm, Tikkas, Savages and Brownings are all perfectly serviceable, hunting tools, just call them what they are.
I have extensively examined Tikkas at several stores here in MT, and I just don't like some features they have or don't have. Like I said the receiver is drilled bar stock, the ejection port is much too small, the trigger guard, magazine are plastic, the recoil lugs are washers, and one size bolt fits all. At their price you could have a much more solid rifle IMO. They do have a very good trigger and a good hammerforged barrel. I think they should be no more expensive than a Marlin XS,or XL, Ruger American, Or Thompson Venture, or Howa-Vanguard.
I know that some will resent this rant, but I believe everything I said is true.
handlerer2
New member
Not likely, my Cooper Mdl 22, 6.5-284, I had to do it all from scratch, no ammo on MS coast, first group was under .3", after 4 shots to zero, still experimenting with bullet jump and coal, and powder primer ect. If it wasn't a 14 MP photo I would show you. My 300WBY, Vanguard, factory target was under .7" not bad for a 300WBY. I have come close to this but, but no quite there, never missed a mule deer though. This was a $370 rifle on clearance at Sheel's in Billings,MT.
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Scottish Highlander
New member
Ok , after being at work all day and coming home to so many replies....well thanks everyone for your input.
Clearly I have a lot to learn!!!!
I should have been a bit more clearer on my question. I know the 7.62 is a 30 cal round but I was looking for a faster flatter trajectory with a little bit more punch. With the 308 I used to use 125 grain shop bought but I have now moved up to 150 grain reloads to try longer shots. On a normal day stalking your dealing with wind in Scotland so the heavier round helps.
The Tikka t3 is a good rifle and I love it. I'm not saying I don't but I have an itch to buy an addition to the family
My father has a 270 already so that wasn't really my fancy. The furthest shot I have taken with the 308 is about 200 yards. A lot of people on this thread have said the Tikka is a top rifle....have I been spoiled by buying the best there is already .....
I have a classic Schmit and Bender on my rifle 8x56. Maybe up grading the scope would help....I'm not sure that's why I'm here asking if I'm honest. Any advice is much appreciated
Clearly I have a lot to learn!!!!
I should have been a bit more clearer on my question. I know the 7.62 is a 30 cal round but I was looking for a faster flatter trajectory with a little bit more punch. With the 308 I used to use 125 grain shop bought but I have now moved up to 150 grain reloads to try longer shots. On a normal day stalking your dealing with wind in Scotland so the heavier round helps.
The Tikka t3 is a good rifle and I love it. I'm not saying I don't but I have an itch to buy an addition to the family
My father has a 270 already so that wasn't really my fancy. The furthest shot I have taken with the 308 is about 200 yards. A lot of people on this thread have said the Tikka is a top rifle....have I been spoiled by buying the best there is already .....
I have a classic Schmit and Bender on my rifle 8x56. Maybe up grading the scope would help....I'm not sure that's why I'm here asking if I'm honest. Any advice is much appreciated
In what regard? Big game hunting? Long range accuracy?
7mm Mag will do both, we have one that we barely ever shoot though. Just don't have the distance to appreciate what the rifle can do, and it is a bit too powerful for the whitetails we have here.
6mm Dasher is an interesting option. Has produced outstanding accuracy out to 1000 yards. Less than 1.5" groups have been produced at 1000 yards. It is a caliber for the serious reloader, but it has a lot of potential.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/dasher/
7mm Mag will do both, we have one that we barely ever shoot though. Just don't have the distance to appreciate what the rifle can do, and it is a bit too powerful for the whitetails we have here.
6mm Dasher is an interesting option. Has produced outstanding accuracy out to 1000 yards. Less than 1.5" groups have been produced at 1000 yards. It is a caliber for the serious reloader, but it has a lot of potential.
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/tag/dasher/
Spats McGee
Administrator
Scottish Highlander, it might also help to have some idea about your firearms laws. I, for one, am entirely ignorant about Scottish gun laws. While I could suggest something like a .50 cal, that doesn't do much good if owning one's going to cost you 10 years in prison. . .
handlerer2
New member
You choice in optics deserves an up grade in riflery. I want a Sako 85, but may have to wait for it. My wife just bought me the Montana Varminter, last year. She probably thinks that should keep me satisfied for a while. I already told her I wanted a new Coonan, so I may may have to settle for that.
Sako 85 has real class, IMO. 6.5x55 in good handloads would be better ballistically than 7.62x51. To really beat a hot 6.5 Swede, would take 300 Mag or such. I reload for 6.4-284 Norma and 300WBY and 340WBy. The 300WBY and 6.5 Norma are almost ballistic twins. 50 GR. of powder for 6.5 vs 90 gr for the Weatherby. A stout 7mm is a hoot also.
If you get your hands on a real real quality rifle, your going to want one. It should be cheaper for you than it would for me, exchange wise wouldn't it? I mean for a Sako or a Blaser or such.
I didn't mean to step on your Tikka. I'm kind of old fashioned and the first time I picked one up and looked at it, I thought it was a stamping. I know they are accurate, they are light weight. I read somewhere that the bolt being hollow actually made operation smoother. If your not a snob, they are really ingenious, so is the Savage.
They must be strong enough to take it or they couldn't sell them, right. They just don't look like it.
Just my old fashion opinion, but if you want the best start looking at Sakos and stuff.
Sako 85 has real class, IMO. 6.5x55 in good handloads would be better ballistically than 7.62x51. To really beat a hot 6.5 Swede, would take 300 Mag or such. I reload for 6.4-284 Norma and 300WBY and 340WBy. The 300WBY and 6.5 Norma are almost ballistic twins. 50 GR. of powder for 6.5 vs 90 gr for the Weatherby. A stout 7mm is a hoot also.
If you get your hands on a real real quality rifle, your going to want one. It should be cheaper for you than it would for me, exchange wise wouldn't it? I mean for a Sako or a Blaser or such.
I didn't mean to step on your Tikka. I'm kind of old fashioned and the first time I picked one up and looked at it, I thought it was a stamping. I know they are accurate, they are light weight. I read somewhere that the bolt being hollow actually made operation smoother. If your not a snob, they are really ingenious, so is the Savage.
They must be strong enough to take it or they couldn't sell them, right. They just don't look like it.
Just my old fashion opinion, but if you want the best start looking at Sakos and stuff.
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Scottish Highlander
New member
Alex and Spats, It is for red deer and Sika. The red deer are on the hill so sometimes a 250 - 300 yard shot is an option but I fired at a red stag last winter and he laughed at me. He was about 300 yards out and it was a 125 grain shop bought load. Sako I think it was. I feel the scope and weight of round is letting me down a bit. I clean missed him which is good as a wounding shot is a bummer 
. Does anyone have a scope to suggest ??? with an illuminated reticle for dusk shooting. A link would be nice
. Does anyone have a scope to suggest ??? with an illuminated reticle for dusk shooting. A link would be niceScottish Highlander
New member
Handler 2 , the Blaser rifles look lovely guns! What is your opinion of Mauser rifles ??
Saltydog235
New member
While I understand what Handler is alluding to as to quality, I have hard time saying the Savage and 700 are junk or thinking Browning or Mauser would throw them in the nearest dumpster.
I've owned a lot of rifles over the years in different cartridges and one of the worst guns I ever had was a Weatherby. Might be I got a lemon but I didn't like it at all. I've also owned numerous Ruger 77's, some were good, some were excellent and a few were downright awful.
Since I bought my first 7mm08 Sako 75 I have loved that little cartridge. It is perfect for the whitetails and pigs I hunt, not too big, not too small, just right. I handload and after experimenting I found a load that shoots about .75-1" out of the Sako. Problem is, the Sako is a pretty rifle and I hunt in high humidity, muddy, swampy tough areas and cannot stand to see a "pretty" rifle beat all up from it. I bought a couple of Savages to hunt with, a .243 and a.308, man they shoot too. However I wasn't satisfied with either of them, they weren't 7mm08. I like to get what I want and am not satisfied until I do. I found a 7mm08 Rem 700 SPS Varmint, bought it and changed out everything but the barreled action, it shoots about .5 or less with the same load as the Sako. Bought another one of the same 700's, cut the barrel down to 20", changed everything out again and the last group I shot with it you could cover the 5 shots group with a nickel and not see an edge on the Shoot N C target.
Do they feel like a Cooper or Sako or high end rifle, nope, not at all. Do they shoot as good or better, you bet, all day long.
Moral, get what you want and that shoots well for you and be happy. If it doesn't sell it and get something else.
Oh and what beats a .308, why a .309 of course.
I've owned a lot of rifles over the years in different cartridges and one of the worst guns I ever had was a Weatherby. Might be I got a lemon but I didn't like it at all. I've also owned numerous Ruger 77's, some were good, some were excellent and a few were downright awful.
Since I bought my first 7mm08 Sako 75 I have loved that little cartridge. It is perfect for the whitetails and pigs I hunt, not too big, not too small, just right. I handload and after experimenting I found a load that shoots about .75-1" out of the Sako. Problem is, the Sako is a pretty rifle and I hunt in high humidity, muddy, swampy tough areas and cannot stand to see a "pretty" rifle beat all up from it. I bought a couple of Savages to hunt with, a .243 and a.308, man they shoot too. However I wasn't satisfied with either of them, they weren't 7mm08. I like to get what I want and am not satisfied until I do. I found a 7mm08 Rem 700 SPS Varmint, bought it and changed out everything but the barreled action, it shoots about .5 or less with the same load as the Sako. Bought another one of the same 700's, cut the barrel down to 20", changed everything out again and the last group I shot with it you could cover the 5 shots group with a nickel and not see an edge on the Shoot N C target.
Do they feel like a Cooper or Sako or high end rifle, nope, not at all. Do they shoot as good or better, you bet, all day long.
Moral, get what you want and that shoots well for you and be happy. If it doesn't sell it and get something else.
Oh and what beats a .308, why a .309 of course.
handlerer2
New member
Peter Paul Mauser showed the world what a quality rifle is. To make a rifle the same way today, with modern techniques, and modern materials, cost much more than many people will pay.
The Mdl 98 has barely been improved upon in 115 yrs. FN, Zastava, Mauser still make them. Mdl 70, Ruger 77, Kimber and some custom rifles are more modern versions.
CRF, is a little more involved than push feed, but considered absolutely necessary for dangerous game. Will cycle upside down, under g's, while swinging rapidly. An absolutely ingenious mechanical innovation!
I grew up shooting a Interarms MkX, an economy rifle at the time, mid 60's, made by Zastava. I learned to shoot center fire with 30-06. It wasn't scoped but I could bust a sheetrock bucket almost everytime from 200 yrd offhand. Of course I loved it!
You can't really do much better than a Mauser, especially in modern form.
The Mdl 98 has barely been improved upon in 115 yrs. FN, Zastava, Mauser still make them. Mdl 70, Ruger 77, Kimber and some custom rifles are more modern versions.
CRF, is a little more involved than push feed, but considered absolutely necessary for dangerous game. Will cycle upside down, under g's, while swinging rapidly. An absolutely ingenious mechanical innovation!
I grew up shooting a Interarms MkX, an economy rifle at the time, mid 60's, made by Zastava. I learned to shoot center fire with 30-06. It wasn't scoped but I could bust a sheetrock bucket almost everytime from 200 yrd offhand. Of course I loved it!
You can't really do much better than a Mauser, especially in modern form.
● If you intend to shoot smaller game -- down to and including ground squirrels but able to still take mule deer -- get a 243Win
● If you intend to shooter bigger game -- from elephant down to mule deer (again) -- get a 375H&H
● That current 308Win, however, pretty well spans a wide middle range.
(postscript: When one says "7.62," one is normally referring to 7.62NATO -- and you've already got that cartridge in the 308.)
● If you intend to shooter bigger game -- from elephant down to mule deer (again) -- get a 375H&H
● That current 308Win, however, pretty well spans a wide middle range.
(postscript: When one says "7.62," one is normally referring to 7.62NATO -- and you've already got that cartridge in the 308.)
Scottish Highlander
New member
My dad has a Mauser 270 in the cupboard and its a nice example of a gun. All engraved and a lovely piece of wood. Its doubled in value in the last 10 years according to him. The only problem is he's to scared to take it out with him now. Its turning into an ornament 
I think it's an under lever cocking system....as in you reload by pulling the trigger guard down and back up. Not sure what the technical phrase is for this reloading action
I think it's an under lever cocking system....as in you reload by pulling the trigger guard down and back up. Not sure what the technical phrase is for this reloading action handlerer2
New member
I'm sure not the last word, bout I've never heard of a Mauser falling bock. 270?
Sounds more like a Ruger MDL3, or a Browning designed Win falling block rifle that may have been available available in 270.
The only Mausers I've ever seen or read about are CRF bolt action type rifles. Is it a single shot or a repeater?
Sounds more like a Ruger MDL3, or a Browning designed Win falling block rifle that may have been available available in 270.
The only Mausers I've ever seen or read about are CRF bolt action type rifles. Is it a single shot or a repeater?
trg42wraglefragle
New member
If you going to buy a 300win mag or something similar in a Tikka or Sako 85 (especially fin lite), be aware that the kick will be pretty severe on it.
It really depends on that you are having problems with.
If your having trouble hitting game at long range from wind, either better wind reading or a better flying bullet will help.
It your having trouble seeing the game through your scope then a higher magnification scope will be the one.
If you are hitting deer but they running off still and not dead nearly instantly then a bigger round would be the ticket.
If your having trouble just hitting them more practice in windy conditions might be enough to solve all your problems without having to buy a new rifle.
Any idea on what sort of wind conditions you have to contend with in Scotland? (as is wind speed as I know it gets mighty windy there).
It really depends on that you are having problems with.
If your having trouble hitting game at long range from wind, either better wind reading or a better flying bullet will help.
It your having trouble seeing the game through your scope then a higher magnification scope will be the one.
If you are hitting deer but they running off still and not dead nearly instantly then a bigger round would be the ticket.
If your having trouble just hitting them more practice in windy conditions might be enough to solve all your problems without having to buy a new rifle.
Any idea on what sort of wind conditions you have to contend with in Scotland? (as is wind speed as I know it gets mighty windy there).