What beats a 308

I may be getting confused with another rifle. It's definately a Mauser 270 he has. I'll check tomorrow just to be sure. It may be his 243 that is under lever reloading. Think thats a Ruger
 
trg, it gets mighty windy here. The wind helps though with noise etc. At least you know your down wind :D......can be anything from a gentle breeze to 30-40 mile/hour gusts...
 
Highlander, from the sound of post #33, you need more practice my friend.
Handler2, yes we all know how sweet mauser's are, where do you think all these other designs came from?:rolleyes:.. But John Moses would have love some of the simplistic designs of accurate, affordable bolt action rifles.
The 7mm rem mag could pose a different prblem to or scottish friend, availability, I never gave it one thought,(everybody has one dont they?) what ammunition he could easily obtain.
 
Red deer, 7mm Mag sounds like what I would suggest. Red deer won't be laughing off that round, its got plenty of power for that job.

Over here with out 120-250lb deer shot at 50 yards or less in the woods, I think its a little bit too much gun, but for 300 yard shots on red deer, It would be my tool for the job.
 
Yea I knew it'd be high, Scotland's not really know for its lovely sunny beaches and perfect weather is it.

I've put a link to some ballistics using a 165gr berger bullets with both a 300winmag and 308, in a 30mph wind with nothing changing except for the velocity.

308: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

300: http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi

You can see that even though there is a big difference in muzzle velocity and 300yards the wind drift is 4" difference which is a bit but is nothing in comparison the 17" of the 300 win mag.

Sure you can probably get a better wind bucking load but 30-40 mph wind is very strong wind and unless you are very good at reading wind or have something like a 50bmg, it will not be an easy shot.

And with the 300 win mag, to miss judge the wind as 30mph when its actually 40mph, your shot will be off by 6 inches.
 
OK, I'll put my .02 in here.

I hunt deer with a 308 exclusively (not a Tikka only because I had not shot one before I bought this rifle). I usually shoot factory Hornady 150 SST rounds. Killed many a deer at 300+ yds (standing) and they dropped in their tracks for the most part. Longest tracking was 50 yds (high shoulder shots only).

I do have a Tikka T3 in 223 Rem. Love it! Shoot coyotes with it. Have been using Black Hills 52gr in it but am starting to use my reloads (new to reloading). I consistently get .5MOA with this rifle. Have no reason to believe that the 308 would be different.

The 308 IMHO is the perfect deer rifle. I have seen many deer not found by guys shooting 300 mags, 7mm mags, etc. The final line is shot placement. The 308 has minimal recoil, is relative cheap to shoot (compared to the 300 mag or 7mm mag) and, out to 350 yds is very accurate.

Actually, all my rifles shoot better than I can in a hunting environment.
 
The furthest shot I have taken with the 308 is about 200 yards.
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Ok, what cartridge you use doesn't really matter at that distance. Bullet drop from a .45-70 would be negligible.

Just keep the .308. There's nothing in Europe that it can't bring down.

The Tikka is a fine gun.
 
Thanks Buzzcock, I am kind of getting that impression from all the posts. I think a bit of practice at targets in a variety of winds will improve my accuracy and trying different reloads at different ranges will improve my confidence.

In December I went stalking red hinds, it was a lovely calm blue sky afternoon. I shot a red hind in the neck at 40 yards roughly. She filled the scope completely she was that close. I shot her in the neck and she went down like a ton of bricks, behind her was her calf and it was at 100 yards. I placed the bullet in its chest and fired with a killing shot. I then looked for the rest of the deer and they'd moved up to a hill out at 200 yards. There was a 2 year old hind (roughly) I shot it in the ribs and knocked the bottom 3rd of her heart off. It was a good days work. All this was with a Nosler 150 grain balistic tip BT with home load. As I said it was a nice day, zero wind which builds my confidence but on gusty days it takes some skill and a little luck maybe. I wounded a hind at 100 yards a few months before and she ran out to 300 and I gave her 6 inches right in the wind aiming for the neck because she had her back to me and I hit her square on in the neck. I would never take that shot as my first but because she was wounded I had to and it was a good second shot. Practice makes perfect . Thanks to everyone's advice on here and maybe a look at a variable scope might help with windage and elevation markings will be a good help. Thanks again
 
Instead of buying a new rifle I would suggest using that money for an instructor, and ammo. Learn how to use the rifle you have. Almost all guns are limited only by the shooters abilities.
 
.308 cartridge has a lot going for it:
- top accurasy
- moderate recoil
- hits hard at all ranges
- chambered in handy carbine length

My only gripe about the .308 is excessive tissue damage at distances less than 150 yards. For this reason, I often hunt with my scoped 30-30 carbine.

Jack
 
Your 308 with 165 grain bullet will handle a 300 yard shot with ease.

The biggest factors are going to be the environmental factors, wind, rain, etc... and they are big ones in your area. Also the quality of your ammo is a big one.

I use a Swarovski Z6 5-30x50 and it has multiple lines (zero + 50,150, 250, 350 yards) on a calm day with good ammo I can get 2-3 inch groups at 300 yards with my Savage 10. With cheap ammo I can't even get on paper.
 
If you want to play at longer ranges loose the 150 gr. The 150 doesn't fair to well in higher winds. Look for a higher BC like that from the 175 Berger or the 180 JLK.

The velocity is nice from the 150 but at longer ranges velocity is not the name of the game, it's wind.
 
In December I went stalking red hinds, it was a lovely calm blue sky afternoon. I shot a red hind in the neck at 40 yards roughly. She filled the scope completely she was that close. I shot her in the neck and she went down like a ton of bricks, behind her was her calf and it was at 100 yards. I placed the bullet in its chest and fired with a killing shot. I then looked for the rest of the deer and they'd moved up to a hill out at 200 yards. There was a 2 year old hind (roughly) I shot it in the ribs and knocked the bottom 3rd of her heart off.
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First off, I don't really believe you took 3 deer by yourself all in an afternoon. Secondly, what are you doing hunting calves?
 
Handler, I dont really get your point. Why are you even trying to compare $400 rifles to $2K rifles? I know my Chevrolet is not a Mercedes Benz, but I dont want a Mercedes Benz. I have some custom built bench rest rifles that I am confident would hurt your feelings. I also have a pile of Savages, Remingtons, Winchesters, Weatherby MarkV's and Vanguards, Howas's, Cz's, surplus Mausers, and my newest addition a Ruger American. They all have their place and function. I enjoy shooting every one of them. The American is more accurate than any of my 9 Mark V's. I would put several of those Savages up against anything of equal weight. They are ugly but very accurate at 1k yards. For the record, I think Ruger's M77 quality is sub par to an import made from beer cans. I had a .22-250 m77 with a bent action. I have one of their 6ppc's that is supposed to be a factory bench rest rifle that wont hit crud. Its literally a 3/4" at 100 rifle. That flat sucks for what the rifle is supposed to be. I plan on re-barreling it later this year.
 
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Dragline45, believe what you want. Making a statement like that about someone you've never met is ridiculous!!! You don't know any history about me or my up bringing. Do you know the laws and conservation of Scotland. Maybe shooting Calves in America is illegal is it ?? I don't know.....

We have a certain head count of stags and hinds to cull per estate over here. My father is a Gamekeeper and I've been shooting since I was 6....I'm 35 in 3 weeks...believe me I shot 2 hinds and a calf that evening. Why would I lie ???

The hind that I said I wounded as it turned out once we got her home and inspected the beast from inside it was a killing shot and she wasn't going much further but I took the 300 yard shot as a security measure. It was getting dark and another 50 yard run and she was going to be over the hill and out of sight.
 
Well hey, if you did take 3 deer in one afternoon by yourself that's impressive and my hats off to you. But it's tough to take someones word over the internet when you have never met them, so excuse my skepticism. Wasn't aware you were in Scotland, should have put two and two together by your username, but I believe in most states here in the US it is illegal to hunt calves. In fact I believe shooting a doe with her calves following is illegal in some states, even if you leave the calves alone.
 
My only point was that the Tikka shouldn't cost more than a Savage, or a MDL 700, or a Howa, not that it was in any way inferior, just over priced IMO.

I think the Savage, Tikka, and Vantage are ingenious modern designs. I honestly think Sako cut more corners, than the others, but didn't pass on as much stuff in the receiver. I should probably get over it, but drilled out bar stock. just bothers me. MDL 700 is similar, but looks more, well traditional.

I have had Mdl700's without any issues, was real fond of them. In 1976, I started shooting and reloading my first centerfire magnum rifle. A MDL700 I found at going out of business sale at Gibson's deptment store, in Gulfport,Ms. $119, They had an Interarms MKX, in 7MAG also, for the same price. I thought the MDL 700 was all there was then. These rifles will or can be made to do anything you want them to. A 700 can with some smithing be made competitive with anything. You can also buy a rifle, for not too much more than you spent on upgrading, a rifle that will do what you want, as is.

The rifle I ended up with, yep it cost almost $2000, would have if there was sales tax in Montana, first group down the bore with first stab handloads could be covered with a dime. I'm snowbirding on the MS coast, the Siberia of rifle supplies, so I have had to do everything from scratch. I was surprised and delighted. I know it sounds like I'm boasting, but I always wanted a very accurate varmint type rifle, I now I have one and am learning how to use it. I studied many rifles, and bought the one I wanted in just the chambering I wanted to play with, 6.5-284 Norma.
 
Hi Dragline45, thats ok :) If you see a hind in the autumn and she has a calf but the mother (hind) is thin or old you have the good reason to cull her. She would probably die during the winter anyway. I shot a hind a few years back and she had 3 teeth left. She was that thin when we went to collect her my dad said just leave her.....she was skin and bone. Thats the sort of deer you look to kill....either barron deer who cant take calf, thin and old....if its for the pot then a yearling is nice ;)

Stags we tend to try and take out old fellas or switches , there stag killers with there bad heads

Ps.3 deer is my record :p
 
Scottish Highlander said:
…With the 308 I used to use 125 grain shop bought but I have now moved up to 150 grain reloads to try longer shots. On a normal day stalking your dealing with wind in Scotland so the heavier round helps.
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Be aware that as far as wind goes, it's only velocity and ballistic coefficient that matters, as ballistic coefficient already takes weight into account. So you can have a smaller diameter and lighter bullet match or beat the wind drift of a larger diameter and heavier bullet if its ballistic coefficient is equal or higher and if the velocity is equal or higher.

All the ballistic coefficient does is scale the aerodynamic ability to retain velocity and resist wind to that of a 1 inch diameter, 1 lb reference projectile at the same velocity. The idea is that if a bullet has a BC of .500, it's half as good at retaining velocity against drag and at bucking wind as the reference projectile is at the same velocity. If the BC is .333, then it's 1/3 as good, etc. So as long as both bullets are compared to the same size and shape reference projectile and at the same velocity, then the factors of shape and weight are already allowed for.

The only place the system comes apart is when the reference projectile shape is different from the actual bullet shape, then the BC will change with velocity because the different shapes have different drag coefficients at different velocities. This is usually the case, as the number you are usually given by bullet makers is for the G1 shape reference projectile BC at or near a typical muzzle velocity, only. That's actually not a very close match to modern bullet shapes, so you find Sierra, for example, giving you different BC's at different velocities, and Berger giving you G7 BC's in addition to the standard G1's, so you have a better matching shape to compare to, allowing one BC to work across the range of velocities pretty well.

In your .308, if you launch a 125 grain flat base bullet with a BC of .28 at 3000 fps, at 300 yards a 30 mph wind will move it 33 inches. A shot perfectly centered in the sights will move 5 inches and be outside a 10" circle a 123 yards. But if you launch a 180 grain boattail with a BC of .5 at 2600 fps, at 300 yards it will be off 21 inches, and won't leave a centered 10" circle until 150 yards.

Anyway, you can see that you want to look not only at the chambering but at what velocities you can get and what bullet BC's are available that will stabilize in your gun's barrel twist rate.
 
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