We the PAKISTANIS are also Human beings

If 80% are our "friends", then why won't you allow us to take out terrorist camps along the Afghan/Pakistan border and rid the problem?
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Maybe they're not prepared to become collateral damage from bad intelligence and wayward airstrikes?

Would the US find it acceptable if the British Government was "taking out" Americans on American soil who were funding the IRA during the troubles?
 
No dresden, but England might not look at us as "friends" if we had 20 percent of Americans supporting the IRA and their violent acts.

So, they probably wouldn't sell firearms to US civilians. ;)
 
dresden8 said:
Maybe they're not prepared to become collateral damage from bad intelligence and wayward airstrikes?

Would the US find it acceptable if the British Government was "taking out" Americans on American soil who were funding the IRA during the troubles?
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Sounds like a response right out of Nancy Pelosi's talking points. Flawed premise that intelligence is bad and airstrikes are wayward. Americans on American soil comparison is also flawed.....Bin Laden is not Pakistani.
 
If 80% are our "friends", then why won't you allow us to take out terrorist camps along the Afghan/Pakistan border and rid the problem? Bush said it best after 9/11, "you are either with us in the fight on terrorism or against us". Riding the fence appeasing both the US and terrorists makes us uncertain if Pakistan is our friend.

End compromising with terrorists and you would make progress towards a second amendment model for your nation.
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i am not talking on part of military or government here. i am representing civilians. secondly, i humbly request that your government shouldnt be friends with our government rather be friends with people of pakistan. empower us so that you dont have to loose troops like vietnam, iraq or afghanistan. we the civilians are very much aware of terrain and tactics here. we can counter the terrorists and evil doers without letting the anti american people play the national pride and invasion card. please understand that if u empower us you will save lives of your troops and economy. we dont want funds or manpower. just technical knowlegde and good guns(we are willing to pay in full for them). just convince your government to open the sales of guns to pakistan. this is very substantial and time is of an essence. help us to help you. terrorist is a friend of no man. invasion of pakistan will be very bad choice for any country. this action will not earn friends but only enemies(because of collateral damge)
 
Why don't you ask your Pakistini government first if they would allow the US to sell firearms to ordinary law abiding citizens?
 
No dresden, but England might not look at us as "friends" if we had 20 percent of Americans supporting the IRA and their violent acts.

So, they probably wouldn't sell firearms to US civilians.
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sir, before 911 , the number friends usa had in pakistan was more tha 90 percent . every day the number is decreasing because of strikes my us planes. people are turning because of 2 reasons

1. collateral damage

2. we the civilans are vulnerable without foreign arms against terrorists. the sanction have left us at mercy of terrorists who have latest gunns and ammo.so when evil doers put a question like"are you with us or against us?"
then. just think what would your answer if you were a pakistani?

please do something before its too late .
 
Why don't you ask your Pakistini government first if they would allow the US to sell firearms to ordinary law abiding citizens?
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sir, FYI there isnt ant restriction to import guns from the side of pakistani government till date.
 
Isn't that northern region of Pakistan a source of supply for firearms as they make their own up there. Aren't they available on the open market?

zeeshan - what part of Pakistan are you in that you cannot get a gun?
 
Are you saying the US has diplomatic relations with your country but not it's people?
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yes! for example any citizen cant even meet us ambassador. i have tried very much but no response. all the people your embassador meets are either government or what our government tells them to meet. all the problemscant be solved with using might. the solution to terrorism to the extent of pakistan is thinking smartly and not aggressively. i fail to understand the reasoning of us diplomats and advisors to us government.
 
zeeshan said:
...sir, FYI there isnt ant restriction to import guns from the side of pakistani government till date.
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I'm no government official, but it sounds like a proposal that has the basis for negotiation......give us Bin Laden, and the US could lift the exportation.
 
Isn't that northern region of Pakistan a source of supply for firearms as they make their own up there. Aren't they available on the open market?

zeeshan - what part of Pakistan are you in that you cannot get a gun?
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sir, FYI northern areas are the tribal areas and no law abiding citizen by choice want to go to that black market area for shopping. this is my whole point! by deprieving us of ligitimate guns you are pushing us in the arms of black market and funding black market. pakistanis go there if very necessary but not by choice but need. please think! and help!

this northern areas is the same place which is the border area of afghanistan.we are ressisiting them so far politically and socially but we are now getting very vulnerable and you are suggesting us to go get weapons from there to ressist them? and also give them our hard earned money(as we are not wealthy nation) to further increase there strength?


i am in punjab region , which is in center of pakistan
 
zeeshan: I found the old statistics article I read years ago. (Ain't the internet great?!)

As you can see, the Pakistini government appears to me to be quite restrictive in its views towards civilian firearms ownership.

DOMESTIC FIREARM LEGISLATION

Currently there are laws in Pakistan regulating the sale, transport , import, export and bearing of arms and ammunition, but these laws largely go unenforced. (6)

In February 2000, the military government led by General Musharraf announced its intention to launch a campaign to “de-weaponize” Pakistan. Progress has been made in most areas but not in the reduction of illegal manufacturing industries or in the imposition of a quota system on weapons production. (4) As of July 2001, only 86,700 weapons had been collected from an estimated 20 million in circulation, and only 3,412 of these were the infamous and easily available AK-47 assault rifles. (8) Further raids pushed the total to over 100,000 in August of 2001. (9) A total of 210,000 weapons were seized over the 18 month period. (10)

Licensing Requirements: Not known

Registration Requirements: Not known

Training Requirements: Not known

Storage Requirements: Not known

Prohibited Firearms: Not known

Penalties: The penalties for arms offences are fines or a jail term of up to seven years. (6)

MANUFACTURE, IMPORT AND EXPORT (2)

The companies that legally manufacture small arms in Pakistan are the following: Armament Research and Development Establishment (ARDE), Daudsons Armoury, Dr A Q Khan, Research Laboratories Kahuta (KRL), Frontier Arms Company (FAC), G.M. Badil & Company, Institute of Optronics Pakistan, Khyber Arms Company (KAC), National Development Complex (NDC), Pakistan Machine Tool Factory (PVT) Ltd, Pakistan Ordnance Factories (POF), Wah Industries Limited. (2)

The weapons legally manufactured in Pakistan by the foregoing companies are: pistols, revolvers, shotguns, rifles, carbines, sub-machine guns, light and heavy machine guns, grenade launchers, mortar <100mm, ammunition, explosives, grenades, rockets, projectiles and land mines. (2)

Pakistan also has a thriving unlicensed, unregulated arms production industry. While these factories operate outside of the law, there is no legislation prohibiting the purchase of weapons from illegal manufacturers. As a result, even Pakistanis who are licensed to own firearms may choose to buy weapons from illegal factories because the prices are much lower. The quality of such firearms varies considerably, but the weapons tend to be crude. (11)

The Darra Adam Khel region, which has a population of about 300,000, is the centre of illegal arms production in Pakistan. It houses over 3,000 “father-and-son” operations which are involved in the illicit manufacturing and selling of weapons. (11) According to recent estimates, the region employs more than 400,000 people. (6) Prior to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, these shops produced mainly repeating rifles. The steady influx of weapons from various sources during the war enhanced the local manufacturer’s knowledge, skills and production capacities. The Darra region produces approximately 20,000 units of all kinds of weapons each year. (11) They have the capacity to produce over 100 AK-47s per day at less than $153 (US). (7)

Pakistan has no registered exports. Pakistan imports weapons from many countries, including Canada, Germany, South Africa ($870,163 worth in 1999), the United Kingdom and the United States of America ($1,616,665 worth in 1997). Imports from the Republic of Korea, China, Germany, the Czech Republic and the UK in the year 2000 totaled $5.7 million (US). (5)
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zeeshan: My understanding of Pakistini gun laws is that individuals are generally not allowed to own firearms. They passed a pretty restrictive legislation scheme back in the mid 1960's and, unless it has changed, licensing is very restrictive and prohibitive IIRC?
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yes! thats the catch! its not prohibited to get arms by law but the procedure is strict, thats the reason law abiding citizens are filtered to get licenses. criminals cant get legal weapons so if you sell guns legally to pakistan , it will not serve any good to wrong kinda people.terrorists dont need legitamate imported weapons!
 
I understand zeeshan! Believe me I understand. But until this terrorist threat is eliminated we can't sell you firearms. I'm very sorry!

I know you are in a "catch-22" situation, akin to being between a "rock and a hard place". I always feel bad for law abiding citizens who can't own firearms for self-defense and to guard against tyranny.

But, like I said, we in the US just can't sell firearms to countries who have alot of terrorists living in them. I mean, I understand the USA's opinion on this one. Once again, I'm very sorry, I do sympathize with your plight.
 
Sounds like a response right out of Nancy Pelosi's talking points. Flawed premise that intelligence is bad and airstrikes are wayward.
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I never said all were. Just enough that you wouldn't choose to have them next door.


Americans on American soil comparison is also flawed.....Bin Laden is not Pakistani.
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But those "foreign fighters" you are fighting in Afghanistan i.e. Pakistanis (at least some), is a fair comparison, when you want to strike in Pakistan.
 
The first step to good change is to be angry.
Then know who or what you are angry about.
Find as many others that are angry about the same thing.
Convince everyone else who isn't angry that they need to be angry about the same things your angry about.
Then, when wherever you go, you find everyone is angry about the same thing, go displace those that make you angry and take their place.

Similarly, what had happened here in the good 'ole USA two hundred and thirty some odd years ago and which is in dire need of happening here again.
 
As a world traveler I must agree with the posters who have commented that private gun ownership does not fuel terrorism. The modern day terrorists who are attacking america; are funded by big government money; along with big government weapons.

I believe the drug cartels in mexico are a typ of terrorist, and thier guns are not privately owned, they are proccured by government figures in the mexican government. They drive around with machine guns while bloe joe cant have a .22.

in sudan same thing. the terrorists there are actually the standing sudunese army. Our problems with pakistan are not zeeshan; per se( he does not own an air force to invade the US with to shoot americans with his privately owned firarm. its the big boys that the US DOES do buisness with.
 
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