Wal-Mart bashing?

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"Likewise, I'm not aware of very many "happy" Wal Mart shoppers. They shop it because it's what is available. Some shop it to save that .50 cents occasionally."

You know, I've read this passage in your message about half a dozen times, and for the life of me I can't figure out what in the hell you're talking about.

FEW people actually count shopping as a happy experience. Those who do are normally on the verge, or have tipped over into, obsession, and use shopping as a validation for their existence.

Shopping is a necessary activity.

I don't find a lot of joy in the shopping experience no matter where I go.

For example, I went to the Harris Teeter this evening. Did I, as I was leaving, hug the manager and skip into the parking lot exclaiming "OH MY GOD, I GOT DOG FOOD! I GOT A SALAD! I GOT BREAD! I'M SO HAPPY I THINK MY TESTICLES ARE DESCENDING!"

Hell no. I ran my card through the reader, bagged my crap, and came home, where I was actually HAPPY, on an emotional and viceral level, to see my dogs, got off my feet, and watch Alton Brown.

I defy you to look at the faces of people leaving ANY store, not just WalMart, and find me a percentage who are "happy" at having just spent time out of their day, money out of their wallet, and gas out of their tank taking care of a NECESSARY task.

One last thing I have to ask...

What customer satisfaction survey company do you work for?
 
Rim, what is "corperate welfare"?

I hear the term and the only example I can think of is vital service companies, i.e. Amtrack, airlines, etc.
 
Mike, someone said something about millions of happy Wal Mart shoppers(I'm too lazy to go back and see who). I was replying to that. Actually, though, I know lots of people who like to shop, or at least window shop. Hell, I like to go look around, even at the mall(barf). But I don't know anybody that "likes" to shop at Wal Mart. Not even the one or two I know who might fit that "validation" concept.

I think your dog food example might be a bit over the top there, Dude. :)

Is ALL shopping, in your opinion, nothing but a necessary task? If so I'd guess you're very much in the minority much of the time.

Survey company? Nah, but I've been successfully self-employed for 16 years, while my wife is manager of the biggest non-Wally Wart grocery within 40 miles. We better kinda have a bit of a feel for what makes people buy things, dontcha think?
 
I just read the pickle story,

What would happen to the gallon if they offered it nationwide and got it below $3? Hunn was skeptical, but his job was to look for ways to sell pickles at Wal-Mart. Why not?

That's 240,000 gallons of pickles, just in gallon jars, just at Wal-Mart, every week. Whole fields of cucumbers were heading out the door.

the volume gave Vlasic strong sales numbers, strong growth numbers, and a powerful place in the world of pickles at Wal-Mart. Which accounted for 30% of Vlasic's business.

Wal-Mart's business was so indispensable to Vlasic, and the gallon so central to the Wal-Mart relationship, that decisions about the future of the gallon were made at the CEO level.

To a person, all those interviewed credit Wal-Mart with a fundamental integrity in its dealings that's unusual in the world of consumer goods, retailing, and groceries. Wal-Mart does not cheat suppliers, it keeps its word, it pays its bills briskly. "They are tough people but very honest; they treat you honestly," says Peter Campanella, who ran the business that sold Corning kitchenware products, both at Corning and then at World Kitchen. "It was a joke to do business with most of their competitors. A fiasco."


I wonder at what point Vlasic CEOs, and the company in general quit celebrating.

It sounds like Wal-Mart scored one for the pickle eaters.

It sounds like Wal-Mart understands retail better than Vlasic understands wholesale.

It doesn't sound like Wal-Mart did anything but win for themselves and win for their customers.
 
Not sure how you could come to that conclusion based on that article unless that was the conclusion you went in desiring to come out with. Sorry.

Nah, I won't leave it at that. Let's fix that edit of yours to accurately portray what was said...

And so Vlasic's gallon jar of pickles went into every Wal-Mart, some 3,000 stores, at $2.97, a price so low that Vlasic and Wal-Mart were making only a penny or two on a jar, if that. It was showcased on big pallets near the front of stores. It was an abundance of abundance. "It was selling 80 jars a week, on average, in every store," says Young. Doesn't sound like much, until you do the math: That's 240,000 gallons of pickles, just in gallon jars, just at Wal-Mart, every week. Whole fields of cucumbers were heading out the door.

For Vlasic, the gallon jar of pickles became what might be called a devastating success. "Quickly, it started cannibalizing our non-Wal-Mart business," says Young. "We saw consumers who used to buy the spears and the chips in supermarkets buying the Wal-Mart gallons. They'd eat a quarter of a jar and throw the thing away when they got moldy. A family can't eat them fast enough."

The gallon jar reshaped Vlasic's pickle business: It chewed up the profit margin of the business with Wal-Mart, and of pickles generally. Procurement had to scramble to find enough pickles to fill the gallons, but the volume gave Vlasic strong sales numbers, strong growth numbers, and a powerful place in the world of pickles at Wal-Mart. Which accounted for 30% of Vlasic's business. But the company's profits from pickles had shriveled 25% or more, Young says--millions of dollars.

The gallon was hoisting Vlasic and hurting it at the same time.

Young remembers begging Wal-Mart for relief. "They said, 'No way,' " says Young. "We said we'll increase the price"--even $3.49 would have helped tremendously--"and they said, 'If you do that, all the other products of yours we buy, we'll stop buying.' It was a clear threat." Hunn recalls things a little differently, if just as ominously: "They said, 'We want the $2.97 gallon of pickles. If you don't do it, we'll see if someone else might.' I knew our competitors were saying to Wal-Mart, 'We'll do the $2.97 gallons if you give us your other business.' " Wal-Mart's business was so indispensable to Vlasic, and the gallon so central to the Wal-Mart relationship, that decisions about the future of the gallon were made at the CEO level.

So when the marketing ploy turned into a nightmare which Wally Wart chose to run into the ground Vlasic tried to pull out of it and Wal Mart threatened to cut their legs off.

Nice. Definitely business with integrity...
 
Eghad,Great post! 2ndAmendmet great link!
I too had forgotten that one!
I recently saw a CNBC interview where a mid size vendor was in the process of telling walmart to go suck a hot rock! He was noticeably nervous but just couldn't take it no mo!
I also ran into a guy at the range who pedaled spray paint for a huge manufacturer. I learned a bunch from him about the "squeeze" that they put on some of the largest companies in the country. Play ball or play hell gettin' in here ever again!:rolleyes:

Pipoman
There's "people welfare" for that single mom driving 80 miles round trip to a minimum wage job so she can pay the baby sitter and buy some food and there corporate welfare so Fat cats can continue their seven figure econ packages without too much pressure on the business:eek: .. People welfare runs about 55 billion!
Corporate runs about 170 billion.
The oil companies recently got $$ for incentives to find oil.
There are countless scams in the acc't world which legitamately qualify a corp for tax relief or dodges. That's how they're making 7figs and you're not.
But we did most likely beat 'em in one area....we paid more taxes last year than G.E.:eek:
That tune in the backround?........... "The Battle Hymn of the Republic!:eek:
What's this country going to do without a middle class to rape?:mad:

Rimrock
 
2nd Amendment

I don't see that the problems encountered by Vlasic after entering into a contract to sell to Wal-Mart is Wal-Mart's problem.

Wal Mart threatened to cut their legs off.

Hardly, they offered to let them out of the deal. Part of that offer was "we will not sell Vlasic products in Wal-Mart". Either business with Wal-Mart is good or its bad. If its good shut up and do business. If it's bad quit selling to them.

I edited the article because all that I find important in the story is that Vlasic had a choice to do business or not. Wal-Mart didn't threaten the lives of the Corporate Execs. Wal-Mart didn't default on its obligation. I am sure there was quite a celebration at Vlasic when the gallon deal was struck.

Rim

From your response Corporate Welfare sounds like farmer welfare to me.

I don't know much about the former. I know a little about the latter. There is no farmer welfare.

Farmers receive payment from the Government in return for Government control of their private business.

The Government signs multi year trade deals with foreign governments promising farm commodities in exchange for , ...everything. Unless the Government can control supplies of these pledged goods and control future pricing the government could end up with $200 barrel oil.

Lets say this year there is an over supply of corn. The price drops 40%. Farm groups advocate to their members to cut corn production next year by 30%. Next year overall corn production drops by 20% and the price of corn doubles. Fulfillment of the agreements become much more expensive.

Instead the Government says "for the next 5 years you will plant 75% of your crop land in corn 25% in soybeans", in return the Government will provide price guarantees for your products. Now the Government can accurately forecast production numbers for the next 5 years. The Government pays the farmers to have control of their private business.

You have 2 choices Government programs or farm "cartels".

Sounds sort of like paying Private companies to explore for oil when and where the Government wants them to.

As for taxes, I advocate The Fair Tax. Until then who gets blamed for the loopholes in the current code? I hire a CPA to be sure I don't pay .01 more than I am required to.
 
Pipo, the bottom line is Corps "ain't" paying their fair share..it's worse now than ever. I'm not talkin' farmer loans or even farm subsidies.
Put one of this country's many working poor vs a typical Corp and you'll leave mutterin' "somebody's going to hell!"

Rimrock
 
Pipo, the bottom line is Corps "ain't" paying their fair share..it's worse now than ever.
:rolleyes:
Why are terms like "fair share" so popular among the bed wetting liberal herd followers?

Corps (I assume you mean corporations?) don't really pay any share,,, *fair* or otherwise. They pass along the cost.

Charge a Corp something and all you do is charge some unwitting slob down the food chain.

I swear by all that's holy,,,if I were "King of the Conutry" I'd decree that every person be required to buy a carton of cigarettes every week.

*Then* maybe the concept of "fair share" and how it just gets passed down would finally sink in!!
 
In my small town we have our second walmart super center going up across the street from one of only two professional gun dealers in town. We just barely got our second starbucks shop and the first starbucks is in our safeway. That's how small we are. The gun shop owner says he will put the walmart sports center out of buisness due to his high quality of service, products, and professionalism. I hope he's right. His wife sent out notices to all their customers asking them to stop in and wish the owner happy birthday as a surprise to him. That's the kind of relationship the store has with the community.:cool:
 
I defy you to look at the faces of people leaving ANY store, not just WalMart, and find me a percentage who are "happy" at having just spent time out of their day, money out of their wallet, and gas out of their tank taking care of a NECESSARY task.

Mike Irwin, obviously you have never seen me walking out of a gun shop. I usually look like this:D And believe me, shopping for guns and gun accesories is definately a NECESSARY task.

On another note, I've seen many threads lately on illegal immigration, some on here and some on The High Road. Many say that we should crack down on those who hire illegal immigrants. What does this have to do with Wal-Mart? Well google Wal-Mart, illegal immigrants and see what you find. This is another area where Wal-Mart deserves to be bashed.

The pickle article is good, but it doesn't take into consideration all things. Because Vlassic doesn't earn much profit per unit they need to find ways to cut costs. One way is to find a cheaper source of cucumbers, so the farmer, most likely a large farming corporation, has to find a way to produce cucumbers cheaper. How do they do this? Cheap labor from both illegal and legal immigrants. Do you think these companies really want to see secure borders when illegal immigrant labor improves the bottom line for the farm owner, vlassic and wal-mart?
 
Why are terms like "fair share" so popular among the bed wetting liberal herd followers?
They aren't. According to conservatives, liberals want some people to pay more than their fair share. And other conservatives propose flat tax systems to insure that taxation is "fair".

Hal, your post strikes me as not one that has to do with reality, but the kind of endless name calling the L&P forum is known for. Someone says something you disagree with so you make this very weak comparison to undermine the poster as the feared and hated "liberal". It's cheap.


"Fair" is what US law is about. If you don't desire fairness in our courts, tax code and lawmaking, perhaps you'd be more comfortable Rwanda.
 
"FEW people actually count shopping as a happy experience."

Likely because they shop at cut-rate joints with poor customer service. That's why I asked earlier if anyone has shopped at Harrods in London. They certainly have many expensive things, but not everything in the store is expensive. Seven floors of fascinating and useful products and not a blue light special in sight. ;)

John
 
lets try and summarize Wal-Mart

wm's business practices will hurt local economies long term, from small business closings to taxing the resources of local medical facilities.

wm is a ingeneous company. all of their "in-your-face" stuff seems appealing, from the looks of their store fronts to their large selection of low priced items to their tv commercials. its all acceptable to consumers. what the consumer dont know is where wm takes advantage, from forcing vendors to lower wholesale prices to not paying workers well or providing proper medical coverage.

it's all a sort of "fleecing of america" operating within the laws and with a big smiley face...... the consumer only "sees" a small part of wm when in reality wm is much much bigger.

i shop there from time-to-time, but i'm liking Target more these days.
 
"Fair" is what US law is about. If you don't desire fairness in our courts, tax code and lawmaking, perhaps you'd be more comfortable Rwanda.
Who you calling Rwanda? :D
Tell that to Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman's families... FAIR? LOL

Always remember this, "The Golden Rule: He who has the Gold, makes the Rules".

Fair? Get real. Survival of the Fittest. Big Fish eat Little Fish. Supply & Demand. Gov'ts get Larger.

Fair? Where does it say that? Equal in the eyes of the law... maybe (hah!)

Sam Walton did provide a service, once upon a time. His children and Corporate America are even more "successful", thus a target for us "little people" to bash and rail at/upon. Should we choose to do so. Perhaps rightfully so. Maybe not.

If you can do a better job, please, feel free to do so. And should you be able to do so, expect harsh words for succeeding from us "little" people.

Fair? Politicians TAKE money for a living, and MAYBE fling some words together and pass around some of their newfound monies (or favors, usually... see below) to see if fellow pols will agree to "Pass" their flung together words into a "LAW", all the while "Owing" another favor to other fellow pols.

Special interests rule this nation.

Business. As. Usual.

Look out China. WalMart to hire 150,000 new employees in China. ;)
 
2nd Amendment

I don't see that the problems encountered by Vlasic after entering into a contract to sell to Wal-Mart is Wal-Mart's problem.

Of course, it's made rather clear in the article, and was in fact the case, that Vlasic didn't sign on to sell gallon jugs. They signed on to sell pickles. Wal Mart pursued a specific size, then ran it in to the ground.

Wal Mart threatened to cut their legs off.

Hardly, they offered to let them out of the deal. Part of that offer was "we will not sell Vlasic products in Wal-Mart". Either business with Wal-Mart is good or its bad. If its good shut up and do business. If it's bad quit selling to them.

This is a fundamental example of those who defend Wally Wart. Business is not all good or bad. it ain't black and white. When a distributor or producer has certain issues with certain produicts those issues are dealt with. At least they are by responsible companies.

Wal Mart? No, it's their way on whatever is at issue or the highway on everything. It's an example of detail work with a hammer. Killing a fly with a nuke. Stupid, lazy, greed-driven overkill. In other words, the entire point of the thread.

I edited the article because all that I find important in the story is that Vlasic had a choice to do business or not. Wal-Mart didn't threaten the lives of the Corporate Execs. Wal-Mart didn't default on its obligation. I am sure there was quite a celebration at Vlasic when the gallon deal was struck.

Yes, you edited the article to enforce your views by leaving out key, important parts of the story. We know that. That's called misrepresentation. Kinda like Wal mart and it makes sense. It shows a consistent world view.

Wal Mart DID threaten their livlihood. Wal Mart played a stupid game that was all about making a statement and nothing about making an income and cared not one whit what their game did to their suppliers. That's by definition poor business practices. It's not how responsible people play the game.
 
Stupid, lazy, greed-driven overkill.

It seems this is where greed meets greed, why did Vlasic want to do business with Wal-Mart to begin with? Wal-Mart's practices are unfair yet all of those suppliers, including Vlasic, step on their long term clients by bargain basement pricing their products to get in the Wal-Mart door. Many of the suppliers disregard years of loyalty from their established clients and don't offer any where close to the prices they offer Wal-Mart.


That's by definition poor business practices. It's not how responsible people play the game.

You have a link to your dictionary? You don't think large distributors pressure manufacturers and have since....forever?
 
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