Wal-Mart bashing?

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I don't enjoy the Wal-Mart shopping experience - a giant building full of stuff I don't need sold by people who generally don't know anything about what they're selling. Anybody ever shopped at Harrods in London? Now there's a store. :)

In related news, I wonder how the following will play out on Wal-Mart?

"China's supply of cheap labor is running out. Hundreds of China's factories are raising wages and benefits to contend with nagging labor shortages. Applicants used to "just show up at the door," said a human resources manager at appliance maker Well Brain. "Now we put up an ad looking for five people, and maybe one person shows up." The change could push up the prices of cheap exports that have fueled China's economic boom, and drive low-cost manufacturers to other countries such as Vietnam. "We're seeing an end to the golden period of extremely low-cost labor in China," said Goldman Sachs economist Hong Liang. (The New York Times, free registration required)"
 
"Does anyone else here find it amusing that the vast majority of posters here tend toward Libertarian or Republican ideals of less government interference...until you start talking about Wal-Mart?"

DING DING DING! We have a winner!

I've told this story before, but WalMart has been a godsend to the economic health and vitality of the town where my parents live.

It started a building & service boom in a town that most retailers had pulled out of years before.

KMart had pulled out in the 1980s, Jamesway (a scuzzier KMart had folded), Hills went under, and Sears and JC Penny are essentially a catalog order form with doors. Danks had gone under, and Bon Ton was the only remotely viable option left for some things.

Local Mom & Pop business were going out of business because no one was shopping in the area because the selection was so limited. Given the choice, most people chose to drive 30 miles over the mountain to the local mall, not to mention that to find anything even remotely resembling work many of the same people had to drive over the mountain.

WalMart changed all that. In the 8 or 10 years since WalMart went in, KMart is back, Target is looking at moving to the area, Lowe's is now open, and there are, by my count, nearly 30 new businesses that simply didn't exist in the area before. Sure, they're mostly small, but they're jobs.

Having those jobs in the community means that more money stays in the community.

Yes, a few Mom and Pop shops have gone out of business, but as far as I'm concerned, that line of "reasoning" is a chimera. The local M&Ps never employed the kinds of numbers that WalMart does, and the employees that the M&Ps had were the exception if they had insurance.

WalMart hired several of the owners of M&Ps that went out of business -- as managers. Why train a department manager when someone already knows the stock and general processes. One individual I've known for many years is far happier to be working at WalMart than trying to eek a living from a slowly dying M&P.
 
Wal Mart stores are just ugly to look at
when I used to shop there..I always felt I needed a shower after I left...ugh!
 
Whether you like government interference or not, almost no one on this board is in favor of absolute deregulated anarachy. It doesn't matter whether it is pollution, building condos in Yellowstone or selling weapons to N. Korea, all of us acknowledge that there is a point where regulation is a necessary evil.

And when talking about a Juggernaut like Walmart, maybe that is one of those things that has the potential impact on stable economics to warrant a little interference.


Mike Irwin's story is a great example of the kind of niche market Walmart used to win a place in the market. It is not an illustration of what Walmart has become since Sam's death or how it functions in towns that have a stable and active commercial sector. Are there more Walmarts located in places like the Irwin's home town, or is his example that of the very smallest percentage of their stores and business?
 
If Wal-Mart either (1) stopped buying from China or (2) went out of business, it'd be like a tax increase on America's middle class.

The "stories" about how Wal-Mart negatively impacts a small community's economics are just that...stories. When Wal-Mart decides to build in a small, rural community, they hire a lot of people and they pay a lot of taxes.

There's nothing illegal about monopolies. Study up a little on the subject, before you offer sage advice on economics and anti-trust laws.
 
Don't be so simplistic, Super Hornet. We have many laws in place to help rein in capitalism to prevent things like huge price controlling monopolies, bank runs and stock market crashes. Those controls are for stability and don't make us socialist.
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Hrmmm.

Like the Oil industry which has gone from about 34 major comapnies in 1911 to about 8 companies now. How long before we get down to 2 or 3?

Like the Telephone industry....SBC and ATT just merged.

:chuckles:
 
Note, I'm in favor of pretty much completely unregulated anarchy. I bash Wal-Mart not because I for one moment want gooberment to do anything about it. I don't. I bash away on them because A) They deserve it and B) If enough people can be made to agree then their demise is likely. Free Market in action.
 
There's nothing illegal about monopolies.
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Yet Ma Bell was broken up and Microsoft was investigated and its breakup is discussed.

I have no particular governmental agenda in mind for Walmart, but to imply that the government has neither the power or will to reduce the power of a monopoly is hogwash.

I would be much happier if we the people reduced their market share, but I don't have much faith in a society that loves McDonald's and reality TV to voluntarily pay more for the greater good of anything.
 
First off, Walmart is not even CLOSE to being a monopoly in any sense of the word. Yes, they are a powerful retailer, as is Sears, Penny's, Target, and numerous others as well as specialty stores.

If you don't like their pay, don't work for them.
If you don't like where they buy their merchandise, don't buy from them.
If you don't like the way they deal with you as a supplier, don't sell to them.

If you do all those things and Walmart continues to be successful then it's time to face it...you're outvoted by the majority. In this country the majority rules whether you like it or not.

Why is it that when a company becomes successful through hard work and competive business practices we want to crucify them? Could it be because it becomes the "in" thing to criticize them, or americans just LOVE a conspiracy whether this really is one or not? Would you be happier if Microsoft or Walmart were sold to a Japanese or Arab firm?

This whole thing started as a bunch of hogwash by a writer looking to sell a few books, and he is the ONLY one to have benefited in any way from the whole thing. In the meantime millions of customers are happy shopping at Walmart, thousands of employees are greatful to be working there, and thousands of companies make sales calls on Walmart every single day of the year in hopes of selling their products to them, which is more than testament to the fact that they MAKE money when Walmart buys their products.

And Handy, if you don't have faith in society as a whole to do the "right" thing for the "greater good" in your estimation, I strongly urge you to consider socialism as the appropriate method of government to live under. That's exactly what they believe. You and the Hillary Hildebeast can tell the rest of us poor misinformed neanderthals what's best for all of us...like not owning assault weapons....it's for the "greater good."
 
Necessary to make some further notes:

Sears, Target, etc, do not have the kind of buying poewer nor do they exert the kind of market influence combined that Wal Mart does. TOTALLY not comparable.

The majority. Yes, we all know how the majority always makes the right choice...

There's lots of successful businesses out there. How many, exactly, inspire the kind of ire Wal Mart does? Sure, you can always find someone with a grudge but, beyond that? People seek to crucify Wally World BECAUSE of their business and labor practices. In other words, unlike companies that have earned success, Wal Mart, as it functions today, deserves the abuse.

This "whole thing" started for me when the first Wally Wart came into this area and every large retailer in town was gone within 6 months. All but one grocery gone within a year after the Super Wal Mart opened. Main St became a ghost town within the first 18 months. I'm not aware of the book you are talking about so it certainly didn't have much to do with my views, or those of anyone else I know or have talked with.

Likewise, I'm not aware of very many "happy" Wal Mart shoppers. They shop it because it's what is available. Some shop it to save that .50 cents occasionally. Almost nobody is "happy" about it. And I've never seen a "grateful" Wal Mart employee. I've seen a few who were grateful to have a job, but that had nothing to do with Wal Mart.

Lastly, when there are no retailers left, or none in a particular market or handling a particular item, except Wal Mart where would you suggest a manufacturer go? And why would you think this looking for the only available outlet somehow automatically translates into a money making venture? That's about like claiming everyone in business for themself is rich.

It's an endless argument, each aspect of which can be countered. Suffice to say I'll continue to do my best to tear the beast down. I am suitably encouraged by the growing numbers of Wal Mart "bashers" to think it's working, slowly. :)
 
I note that WalMart did not have such a good Holiday season and they took
out full page ads in the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times stating that they offer good pay, good benefits and promote from within, so they must be feeling the pressure. I most definitely DO NOT advocate what are called "WalMart" bills that require companies with a specified number of emplyees to offer medical benefits, etc., these decisions are best left up to
corporate managers. I personally am willing to pay a few dollars more for
items at my local "army-navy" store that has been owned by the same family
for 3 generations. I also note that the Walmarts in my state do not sell firearms and ammunition.
 
Does anyone else here find it amusing that the vast majority of posters here tend toward Libertarian or Republican ideals of less government interference...until you start talking about Wal-Mart? Then they want the government to step in and manipulate the free economy.
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I hate to say it but the only way that the big retailers have stayed in business has been through manipulaton of the free economy. I would refer you to discussion of the 'trust' argument which has been active for over a hundred years. It has been recognized for over a century that corporations can become so large that they take on aspects like quasi-governments and manipulate the law and the market to benefit themselves.

IMHO the horizontal spread of such entities isn't their most dangerous aspect. Rather their 'vertical integration' is much more hazardous. I could much more easily believe in a company which competes with its peers for sales dollars than one which closes factories, destroys sources of spare parts and sends manufacturing overseas.

The flipside of "economy of scale" is a concept called "vulnerability of scale". I agree Mike's hometown folk reap short term benefits from the big shaggy dog in their backyard. But what happens to the fleas when their dog dies? All it would take to kill people off by the hundreds and thousands would be a six month long trucker's strike or an earthquake which disrupts irrigation in Kali farm country.

I wish I could say I find anything at all about this amusing but I don't.

Another link of interest:

http://www.lehmans.com/
 
Hrmmm.

Like the Oil industry which has gone from about 34 major companies in 1911 to about 8 companies now. How long before we get down to 2 or 3?

Like the Telephone industry....SBC and ATT just merged.
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I have a newspaper ad from the Buick dealership in the neighboring county dated May 20, 1917. This ad lists all of the brands of motor vehicles registered in the county, population around 30k. There were 110 makes of (American made) vehicles registered (not models, makes :eek: ). By the 50's there were maybe 15?? )By the early 70's, 4 with any market share. Now back to 10 with some market share? These things go in waves.

At the turn of the 20th century the largest distributor of durable consumer goods (including guns and knives) in the US was Simmons Hardware Company, ever heard of them? Wal-Mart will meet its match one day, until then the US is not going to fall due to their market influence, the poor are not going to get poorer because of them, and all American industry is not going to move to 3rd world countries because of them.IMO
 
I wood lyke too reeplie too yor coment.

Here, on the border, we are accustomed to all Wal-Mart Public Service Announcements being made in Spanish. What reason is there to address the Anglos?

Most of the local Wal-Marts have employees less than fluent in English but one store, in particular, seems to excel in the number of employees that speak no english at all. Whatsoever, nada, nothing, zip, forget it. I am thankful that I speak something that resembles Spanish.

Recently, I had a small problem with mistakes made by a cashier (?empleada de caja, cajadera?) and spoke with a (low level) Manager. I mentioned that "well, these people come over here from Mexico looking for a way to better their lives but they're not accustomed to our ways" but his response was "yes, but we train them and they should know."

It is rewarding to know that all Wal-Mart employees are trained although the legality of the employment "may" be questionable and they cannot speak the language that is most universal in this noble nation.

I am bi-lingual. That tells you that I am illiterate in, at least, two languages.

I apologize, respectfully, for my near illiteracy.

!Muchas Garcias!

Illiterate, remember?
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I don't advise you confuse Rivers too much. They are the only "literate" person on this board. And,I bet they work at wally world.

And to quote Rivers:
"I can't think of a class of people much lower on the social totem pole than those clowns who hang around mom-n-pop gun stores."
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If wally world totally stops selling firearms and other shoot needs,where are you going to go? I hope not to the,as you say, "mom-n-pop"" gun stores. I can't handle being around "smart" people like you.
 
Rivers said:
I can't think of a class of people much lower on the social totem pole than those clowns who hang around mom-n-pop gun stores.
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Hmmm... I happen to be one of those illiterate knuckle-dragging neanderthal clowns who hang around mom-n-pop gunstores. Care to rephrase that a bit?

In the case of most of rural America, such places are the only places to buy guns-n-ammo. Seems as if your Big City Attitude needs a reality check.
 
These things go in waves
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I dont think the breakup of the Oil Companies was a wave nor was the breakup of ATT :p

The current auto industry situation is due to an absence of syapse action in the grey matter and long range planning. I can just see those guys sitting around the table pointing and laughing at the Japanese back in the day. Then the Arabs got us by the short n curlies during thier oil embargo. The auto industry still didnt learn....niether did we
 
Post by pipoman I have always wondered why the State of Cali always puts odd ball rules in place making interstate commerce difficult if not impossible. California emissions, CA legal guns, etc. Maybe the lack of gun shops in CA has to do with idiotic, unnecessary regulations.
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I can speak for our area I guess you for yours. Walmart and only Walmart folded their tents!
Living here I can tell you that walmart totally and completely violated even the most basic of rules including their own policies. Often the purchase wasn't consumated properly. When it comes to help you get what you pay for.
Posted by Dunedindragons Does anyone else here find it amusing that the vast majority of posters here tend toward Libertarian or Republican ideals of less government interference...until you start talking about Wal-Mart? Then they want the government to step in and manipulate the free economy.
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Good point! However this economy hasn't been a free or pure form "marketplace" in light years if ever otherwise we'd welcome monopolies in every form of business...we don't.
But for arguement sake let's say we go to a pure form totally free market global marketplace.
First we cut ALL CORPORTE HANDOUTS...corporate welfare (170 billion) We also must allow the biggest and most aggressive entities to devour the others...One phone company, one oil company, one retailer, one medical provider, one financial company etc. Sounds fun!
Then we would have to allow, under the survival of the fittest scenario, the middle east and the communists chinese..yes, they are still Communists..to suck up our struggling business so they couls put their special spin on them like Smith & Wesson and other gun manufactures.
Taken far enough out the continum we'll have a new omnipresent megga mart in all places where consumers want price. Let's call it the "China Commune" They'll make other outlets look like the corner store.
Their mission statement will be "If we can't lick 'em let's buy em ...and with their own money!":eek:
Watch for falling prices WALMART!

Rimrock
 
I do have a friend that works for one of the big oil companies. Walmart is the puppetmaster and the oil company is the puppet when it comes to sale of engine oil and other lubricant products. They set everything from delivery time to the expected price they have to pay. When WalMart says frog..the oil company says, how high?

Google the Internet for the Gallon jar of Pickles...

I dont know if we will have to worry about China, pretty soon Walmart will have purchased them.
 
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