UH OH! Capt Video's Self Inflicted Wound!

[Rimrock]

You hate Bush we get it
Now try to do something constructive.
Have you bothered to actually look uo the contents of the conference transcripts yourself, or do you always allow other to interpret things for you?
__________________
I have nothing against education, as long as it doesn't interfere with thinking
--Ben Cartwright

Thanks for the special attention. I had quite an accomplished career being constructive. It's a matter of public record.This country's been darn good to me and mine in ever way. Now that I've accomplished most of my goals I think it only fair to help others who have apparently lost their way. This country is worth it!
But if I'm seen or heard quoting Ben Cartwright please, please call the nurse.

Rimrock

 

[Rimrock]

Posted by ght

Rimrock

Everything you declare as "fact" is completely wrong.

Not worth debating such a person.

I think we have some stress fractures developing. I know, it's tough.... your guy's going down the tubes, he's cutting atomic deals with india, he's ignoring our borders, he's giving away the ports, he's giving the rich all those tax breaks (I know, I got it) he's looking up America's skirts, his VP doesn't know a quail from a face, he's got a semi permanent "deer in the headlight" look, his wife thinks it was hurricane "Corina" he's the proud owner of the greatest spending spree in history, he doesn't speak the language much, he's still looking for the real killer after almost five years, he thought Brownie was doing a heckava job, looks like his boys "out" CIA folks just for fun, and God told him to attack iraq We found the source of the stress!
Would the aforementioned rise to the level of "freaking" or is this just considered "bush" on the moronoscope?

Rimrock

 

[Rob P.]

So, what would you suggest now Rob P? Should Bush declare martial law so that FEMA can force the parishes of Louisiana to take the 20,000 trailers that FEMA purchased and that are parked in other states?

First of all, Bush doesn't have to declare anything since FEMA has been given authorization ALREADY to supply the trailers to NOLA. Some trailers have already been delivered to some parts of La while others sit vacant in "holding areas". All that's needed is for Bush to order the trailers into the "flood area".

Second; This information is WELL DOCUMENTED (it's even on the recent video tapes just released). So, while I forgive you for your pro-flunky attitude towards GWB, I cannot condone your ignorance of these facts. You missed it on this one.

Last, I find that placing blame where blame should truly lie is usually a good starting point for making decisions on how to fix the mess. After all, if one blames the mail room guy for the company's financial problems, then the current CEO with a robber baron spending habit still gets to play and nothing changes. OTOH, if one sees that the CEO is the problem and places the blame where it should be placed the problem starts to be solved. Maybe a promotion to the mail room guy will effect change and maybe it won't. At least the known problem child is out of the picture and things can go forward.

 

[gc70]

by Rob P.
First of all, Bush doesn't have to declare anything since FEMA has been given authorization ALREADY to supply the trailers to NOLA. Some trailers have already been delivered to some parts of La while others sit vacant in "holding areas". All that's needed is for Bush to order the trailers into the "flood area".

Second; This information is WELL DOCUMENTED (it's even on the recent video tapes just released). So, while I forgive you for your pro-flunky attitude towards GWB, I cannot condone your ignorance of these facts. You missed it on this one.

Before you declare someone ignorant of the facts of a situation, you might want to determine the facts yourself.

Or maybe you can explain the legal authority under which the President could "order" the trailers into areas when local government officials refuse to accept the trailers.

Federal-local conflicts keep victims out of FEMA trailers

In its search for places to put them, the agency has run into two roadblocks: a lack of basic services such as water, sewers and electricity, and the not-in-my-backyard attitude of many residents who don’t want their communities turned into giant trailer parks.

“Right now, we’ve been handcuffed in certain respects. It hasn’t been easy to find land,” said FEMA spokesman Marty Bahamonde, who recently worked a stint in Baton Rouge, La.

And the greatest resistance is often where there is the greatest need. Only half of Louisiana’s 64 parishes are willing to accept FEMA trailers, and 24 of those 32 willing communities will accept them only if they are for their own original residents.

“We can’t come in and take their land, and you don’t want to put them someplace outside of town with no services. In many cases, our hands are tied,” Bahamonde said. “Right now we’re concerned that there’s going to be a greater need than we have places to put people.”

 

[Rob P.]

So, 24 of 32 parishes are willing to accept the trailers provided that the trailers are for residents of the parishes. The other 8 parishes are willing to accept the trailers under unstated circumstances but could be assumed to be willing to accept them no matter what.

Upshot, 32 parishes are willing to accept FEMA trailers but the trailers sit on an abandoned military base unoccupied. 32 parishes who need and want the trailers but the trailers aren't being sent to them.

Tell me where the snag is.....

Tell me that GWB has to order martial law in order to "force" the state to accept the trailers.....

Tell me it's the State that is the one holding up the help here....

 

[gc70]

Tell me it's the State that is the one holding up the help here....

Okay, it's the State (or specifically, parishes) that is the one holding up the help here.

Trailers are being placed in the parishes willing to accept them. The "snag" is that not enough parishes are willing to accept trailers and some that do limit the number accepted.

Would you advocate FEMA placing all of the trailers in the 8 parishes unconditionally willing to accept trailers (assuming those parishes remained willing to accept that number of trailers)?

Would it matter to you whether the trailers were delivered in one location while the homeless people were in another location?

Or have you irrevocably made up your mind to blame Bush for everything, regardless of any other possible facts and circumstances?

 

[gc70]

by Rob P.
Second; This information is WELL DOCUMENTED (it's even on the recent video tapes just released).

Exactly what information are you referring to that I should look for on the video tapes?

 

[loggerhead]

original by gc70:Exactly what information are you referring to that I should look for on the video tapes?

You might try that part where all are warned as to what could happen in NO, four days before Katrina land fall. And consider that GWB told the nation that no one had anticipated the levey failure.

Most of my relatives live on the gulf coast between Pensacola, fla and NO, la. All except one in NO and one in Ocean Springs, ms were flooded. Those who were flooded, water in their homes, owned their property, had all utilities and yet most were 4 months or more getting the FEMA trailer hooked up.

One uncle in MS had his children come in from all over, some as far away as WY, and they gutted his house, removed all of the old sheet rock and wet insulation, removed the mold, rebuilt the home completely and moved back in before their FEMA trailer, which was setting in the back yard, was hooked up to the utilites.

The way it was supposed to work was the displaced person filed a request for assistane, the inspector came out and "located" where the trailer was to be placed, the trailer was moved in and placed on the site, the utilities were hooked up(individually), the inspector returned to inspect the hookup, If it was acceptable the displaced person was presented with the keys. Each of these steps usually had several weeks or even months between them.

GWB told the LA folks the day before the storm hit, "we ar well prepared",
now he tells us we are well prepared for the avarian flu outbreak---one has to wonder

 

[gc70]

Sorry, loggerhead, but Rob P. was discussing the delivery of FEMA trailers and then made a reference to "This information is WELL DOCUMENTED (it's even on the recent video tapes just released)." I want to know whether he is claiming that the video includes discussion of FEMA trailer deliveries.

One uncle in MS had his children come in from all over, some as far away as WY, and they gutted his house, removed all of the old sheet rock and wet insulation, removed the mold, rebuilt the home completely and moved back in before their FEMA trailer, which was setting in the back yard, was hooked up to the utilites.

Fair description of the situation. How long did it take FEMA to deliver the trailer? Who (FEMA or locals) did the inspections and hookups?

Bush, Chertoff, Brown, Blanco, Nagin, and a bunch of others clearly dropped the ball in a number of ways. I am just tired of the folks whose purpose in life seems to be blaming Bush - and only Bush - for everything without bothering to look through to the cause of a problem. When something doesn't work right (like the inspections and hookups for your uncle's FEMA trailer), my interest is in who can do something to make it right.

 

[Rob P.]

I am just tired of the folks whose purpose in life seems to be blaming Bush - and only Bush - for everything without bothering to look through to the cause of a problem.

And this causes you to have a problem with my viewpoint? I actually believe that I stated that more than just GWB is at fault in this.

I find it interesting that although we did this issue already several times in several other threads the results have become well known.

FEMA screwed up.
Nagin screwed up.
Blanco screwed up.

This was posted by me in post #24 of this thread. Since I did say this, I guess we're actually on the same side of this issue if you believe the same. I also am of the opinion that blame needs to be placed so that we all know where the rats live and can eliminate them from the process of fixing the problem.

The point here isn't the GWB is a bad person. The point is that the problem needs fixing. That won't happen until those currently in power get replaced by ones who will actually do stuff instead of just talk a lot about doing stuff. If the ones in power now happen to be Nagin, Blanco, Brown (formerly), and Bush, then we have a right to complain about ALL of them to let others know that these people dropped the ball and cannot be trusted to do what they said they will do.


Hopefully that will spur others to vote for replacements for these people which will start the solution ball rolling. Until then all we have is the right to complain until something is done. Squeeky wheel and all that sort of thing.

 

[gc70]

I actually believe that I stated that more than just GWB is at fault in this.

Exactly right, Rob P. My comment about frustration with the single-minded Bush-bashers wasn't directed at you.

The point here isn't the GWB is a bad person. The point is that the problem needs fixing. That won't happen until those currently in power get replaced by ones who will actually do stuff instead of just talk a lot about doing stuff. If the ones in power now happen to be Nagin, Blanco, Brown (formerly), and Bush, then we have a right to complain about ALL of them to let others know that these people dropped the ball and cannot be trusted to do what they said they will do.

I agree totally that the problems need fixing. But I don't see a lot of value in complaining about people; I prefer to complain about the specifics of the problem, find its identifiable parts, and fix them one by one until the problem is solved.

 

[okiejack]

The topic article's title is misleading.

According to the topic article's title videos of Presidential briefings contradict President Bush. But then nothing from the videos is quoted that supports the article's accusation. Fact is the article contains nothing that indicates any contradiction. We get a lot of quotes but nothing that disputes anything President Bush said or did. But we do get a lot of sinister supposition and biased opinions from the author.

Did I miss something? Where the beef?

 

[brickeyee]

"They are under control of the state at all times, they are there for assistance and funding." kenny b

Since when? The feds have a separate chain of command. The first thing they do in a disaster like this is federalize the guard and then supplement it with other troops. The control of active duty troops is not turned over to a state.

FEMA and the other agencies coordinate with state folks, but are not under their jurisdiction.

Next thing you all will want is for W to take command during the storm.

The tapes also show Blanko saying the levies are OK. She is not completely sure, but says it.
We really need to send in some choppers during the end of a storm to try and plug levy failures. Sounds real smart to use heavy lift copters in high winds at low altitude.

Based on the projected number of deaths, the actual number was very low. Maybe the missing ~9000 bodies have been hidden by the White House.

As soon as Blank and Nagin own up to their total failures to lead they will have the right to start pointing at others.
The Feds have always required 48-72 hours to move in. If the damage is widespread and transportation is compromised it could easily take longer. The local (city/county/parish/state) are supposed to plan for this and be able to operate until help arrives. As it is, the Coast Guard and Navy pulled a lot of folks from roofs.

The press reported many incorrect items, some that influenced rescue efforts. They have yet to step up either.

 

[loggerhead]

original by brickeye:The Feds have always required 48-72 hours to move in

????Whos Idea is this?? you might recall, but I doubt it, the hurrican following Katrina indicated that it might hit Florida and FEMA started moving equipment and trailers in that direction.
Also, FEMA had reps in the LA, Ms and AL areas several days before the storm made landfall.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

I'm bettin' this country can't withstand 3 more years of this abuser.

On the other hand, I'm glad we have three more years of this abuser. It's the 4 years of Hillary coming up that scares the hell out of me.

 

[Rimrock]

On the other hand, I'm glad we have three more years of this abuser. It's the 4 years of Hillary coming up that scares the hell out of me.

The lesser of the two evils thought here and elsewhere is rather discouraging.
Why don't we demand the best manager we can find regardless of party, gender, color etc. It's certainly not GWB and most likely not HRC.
It may be some wonderful pragmatist of Asian decent named Gus, but we'll never know!Our capitulation is as much to blame as anything else.
There are some bright folks in this country who are capable of managing the affairs of this country quite well but unfortunately the party "selection" process illiminates them. Until we cure this we'll continue to get the flavor of the month!

Rimrock

 

[gc70]

There are some bright folks in this country who are capable of managing the affairs of this country quite well but unfortunately the party "selection" process illiminates them. Until we cure this we'll continue to get the flavor of the month!

100% correct. Unfortunately, the masses have always voted themselves 'bread and circuses' and politicians who promise the most from the public trough predictably win elections. Don't expect a solution as long as people remain fundamentally selfish and self-centered.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

The lesser of the two evils thought here and elsewhere is rather discouraging.

Actually, I don't consider Bush the lesser of two evils. I think he is doing a decent job. Yes, there are things I disagree with him on and would do differently. The only way I'd be 100% satisfied is if I were president.

 

[brickeyee]

"the hurrican following Katrina indicated that it might hit Florida and FEMA started moving equipment and trailers in that direction."

"Moving ...in that direction" is pretty far from moving in.
Trailers are the least of the problem and represemt part of the long term response.
The problems everyone is yelling about is the immediate response to the levy breaches and the subsequent flooding, along with what Nagin tried to pass off as an 'evacuation'.
Even Blanco could not get the state guard in at first do to the flooding.

 

[loggerhead]

The US Coast Guard did not wait for an official invite or orders, they were in there plucking folks from the tops of houses before the wind stopped blowing and the rain stopped falling.

After 5 or 6 months FEMA is still stumbling around down there trying to figure out what to do with trailers sinking into the mud up in Arkansas. Also they have hundreds of trailers located at Craig Field in Selma Alabama which is less than 4 hours from the Mississippi coast. "But the parishs will not allow us to bring triilers in." Those parishes that place restrictions on the location of relief trailers are far removed from NO and the "main" coastal regions.