ugh. SD ammo

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tell ya what,take a 12ga. or even a 20ga. with a 1 oz load of 71/2 shot and put one into a sheet of 3/4" plywood at 15 ft. .... It will change your opinion. QUOTE] tmd11111, first and foremost I want to take this opportunity to 'THANK YOU' for your services. May God Bless You and insure your safe trip home. I don`t think anyone here has argued that its an "impossibilty" for 7 1/2 birdshot to be lethal but rather that if one is planning to use a shotgun for HD there is just simply better loads for the purpose. Kyo, apparently has absolutely no experience/knowledge with his shotgun and to even suggest that a 7 1/2 target/game load of birdshot is remotely reasonable for HD is not giving him the best advice. If thats the only ammo he has or can afford thats one thing(better than throwing rocks) but if its a case where he`s planning his HD strategy there`s simply just to many other SD loads avail. even if its an apartment setting. All that said, Kyo is a long way from being comfortable enough with his new shotgun for defending his castle. Kyo, when you`ve got some wear marks on the furniture of your new shotgun, only then should you worry about using it for HD. By that time you`ll know what HD load to use for your situation.
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So, why would the guy tell me to get birdshot for self defense?
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That's a good darn question. Ask him if he hunts 200lb animals with 7-1/2 shot. Nope? go figure. :rolleyes:

doubt any human can take a load of bird shot to the chest and be so unfazed they can properly return fire.
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...ever heard of PCP? He might think you're tickling him with that shot. Just IMHO

You know what they need to come out with to easily put aside this debate? #2 Peopleshot. I'd buy a bunch of it. :rolleyes:
 
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...ever heard of PCP? He might think you're tickling him with that shot. Just IMHO
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PCP doesn't allow you to survive having your heart and lungs turned into sausage. At typical HD ranges, birdshot will do that.
 
For christ sakes, get a cross chest bandolier and put the box of 7 1/2 shot in the holders. That way you can look even more intimidating with your shotgun loaded with 00 buck. :)
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Kyo post #63:
I`m not worried about defending my castle, I`ve got my 45 as well
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Kyo post #1:
Anyway, I ask what kind of self defense rounds I should pick up
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My apologies. I thought this thread was about you not knowing the best 12GA. SD/HD round for defending your castle:confused:. If you bought the # 7 1/2`s for bird or small game hunting, skeet or trap, you`ll do just fine after you pattern your shotgun and select the right choke. You may have to buy more 7 1/2`s before finding the right choke, 25 rds. may not be enough. May I suggest a nice I/C to start out with. Thats always been my fav.;)
 
PCP?! When was the last time you heard of anyone using PCP? (Besides the bank robbers in body armor, and that was one unique case). PCP is a straw man argument. Alcohol, cocaine, ecstasy, cannabis, painkillers, sure. Planning your self defense around PCP is silly. Somebody on PCP isn't going to be driving, and he isn't going to be wandering long distances and happening across your homestead.
 
I also wonder if someone on pcp is coherent enough to operate a firearm, accurately shoot, or return fire if shot by a "non lethal" 7 1/2 birshot load
 
Cannabis??? If the BG smoked cannabis, shoot him with a twinky out of a slingshot:D. Don`t know to many cannabis smokers energitic enough to break into anything. The meth and pill heads are the ones to worry about.
 
tmd11111 wrote
For all you naysayers I posted this on the first page of this thread.

tell ya what, take a 12ga. or even a 20ga. with a 1oz load of 7 1/2 shot and put one into a sheet of 3/4 plywood at 15 feet....It will change your opinion.
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I would like someone to try this and then take a picture and post it on here.
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I've shot a lot of different loads at a lot of different targets, but never 7 1/2 shot at 3/4" plywood, so I found me a piece of scrap 3/4" stuff and set it up. (Got my own range so it's no problem to try 'most anything). With Remington 1 ounce load of 7 1/2s, 1290 FPS, 15 feet back, it punched through, hole abput 1 1/2" diameter. 27 pellets got out of the central mass and were left behind in the wood. Don't know it proves much about any SD use, but it would mess up a person pretty badly at that range. My camera quit so no picture.

DC
 
When the "plywood man" breaks in... light his butt up with the 7 1/2!
Now this will cost you but you can pick it free of lead and eat it...
Get you a rear quarter of beef and hang it from the hoof end and shoot it. Let me know how the depth and bone damage went! Bet you don't break the leg bone. I also doubt highly you will have a 5 inch exit wound... Further... i bet you a shot of unaged corn liquor there is little or no exiting shot...
Why would anyone suggest less than flesh to determine flesh injury.
As for ballistic gel, short of many scientific parameters being proven, Penetration isn't considered equal to flesh. I think it is said... 12 inches in gel is close to 8 inches in humans IIRC...
Keep it real folks!
This 10-12 inch pine tree dead as a doornail for a year needed MASSIVE number of rounds from 7 1/2 to slugs likely nearing a hundred if not more than 100...
It finally fell when Junior worked his but off to rock it.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=280403&highlight=redneck+tree+service
Brent
 
With Remington 1 ounce load of 7 1/2s, 1290 FPS, 15 feet back, it punched through, hole abput 1 1/2" diameter. 27 pellets got out of the central mass and were left behind in the wood.
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This is the point I was trying to make. At SD distances any sized shot you use doesn't have a chance to spread out yet. That hole is going to be close to the same size be it #00 or #7's. Unless of course your scatter gun has a 12" barrel..
 
So what purpose would a 12 inch barrel serve? The spread will vary only from tenths of an inch to possibly 1/2 inch wider than a 20 inch barrel would yield... All that a 12" compared to a 20" barrel assimilates is the shooter being 8 inches further back...
Brent
 
I think his point was...

... that a 12 inch barrel would spread out the pattern, delivering less penetration and power from smaller shot.

IE, if using smaller shot, go with the longest barrel you can practically use for HD, to keep the pattern tight and dense.
 
OK POLL TIME,,,,,,
How many of you that claim ONLY buckshot is correct have in REALITY have ANY experience shooting some bad guy? I hear all the commotion, I see no facts. Just a lot of wind and exsput opinions.
Yep, bird shot user here too. Mine is Remington Premeire Copper Plated #4 shot. The load is 1 3/4 ounce at 1300 fps.
I'd be willing to put up some serious money to anyone willing to claim birdshot at across the room distances can't drop you. Heck yes, wear a bunch of winter clothes, get drugged up on whatever you like and I promise to hit you COM, no facial shots. Heck, I'll buy you the beers after the test.
I suspect I'll be drinking alone planning on getting off work for your funeral.
 
Differing circumstances, different loads. The shotguns I keep loaded for SD are both loaded with 8 pellet 000 Buckshot, but that doesn't mean that I think 000 is the only load fit for the job. If overpenetration is a potential problemI, then Birdshot makes sense. I don't worry about any overpenetration issues. I want a low pellet count so no stray pellet might hit the dog chewing the invader's face off or the other one making sure that if he survives, he'll never reproduce.

DC
 
Copper plated #4 shot at 1 3/4 ounces is not a plain jane bird shot round...c'mon now. I don't think a lot of us were saying that ONLY buckshot is correct...just that we thought it was BEST.

Sounds like you have a pretty good defense round cooked up for YOU.

I'll stick with 00 or 000 buck...thanks. ;)
 
... that a 12 inch barrel would spread out the pattern, delivering less penetration and power from smaller shot.
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Only equal to standing 8 inches further from target with a 20 inch barrel... negligible to say the least. Might have a bit less MV...
How many of you that claim ONLY buckshot is correct have in REALITY have ANY experience shooting some bad guy?
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Can't help ya' on the human targets... Just an absolute ton upon ton of dead game animals of the super steeled variety like venison... Them buggers only weigh like 130 pounds and have a pretty good head of steam no matter what they are shot with... Some have gone on to play dead and injure the shooter when he approaches the "dead animal"... If I can't justify smaller than #4 for coons than I doubt I would ever load a 7 1/2 for a deer no matter the range. Thus, I reckon I could be wrong but if I feel no less than 20 gauge slug or .30-30 to reliable "stop" a deer than I couldn't ever use less than buck (mitigates the penetration of a single slug, see I don't throw wall penetration risk to the wayside) on a human target. 50 to 150 yards to track a mortally wounded deer gives a realistic guy like me wonder what a human could in that same time after I fire off a round.
Brent
 
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