ugh. SD ammo

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If you were referring to the "definately" bit...

... then I'll retract my earlier statement. You're right, there's no guarantee of anything. I personally have my house gun loaded with the low recoil 00 Fiocchi rounds.

However, I'm not about to volunteer as crash-test dummy for a 12ga #7 1/2 load at 5 yards.

I will say this, though; was shooting skeet with a friend from his airboat in the flats outside Crystal River, FL. A couple of the clay pigeons we had missed ended up across some deep mud, where we couldn't retrieve them. Wanting to minimize the litter, we shot them into small bits from about three yards away (between razor sharp oyster shoals and mud that sucks off all footwear, we weren't able to get closer). A load of #7 1/2 birdshot at 3 yards made a hole around 4" in diameter and at least 6-7" deep into the bank at the edge of the mud, after blasting through the clay pigeon.

Would not have wanted to take that hit anywhere on my person.
 
Kyo said:
so, I went and pick up my first shotgun last week. which is 12 gauge. Anyway, I asked what kind of self defense rounds I should pick up, and the employee said the 7 1/2 birdshot 2 3/4 inch 1 ounce shot.
so, I bought the box of 25...and 10 rounds of 1 once slugs to go to the range with.
Heres the thing. Same guy told me to go on box o truth. Which I knew about before. I went on there, and it specifically was saying the 00 buckshot for defense and the birdshot is not viable. So, why would the guy tell me to get birdshot for self defense? And what am I supposed to do with it now?
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Very simply, the gunshop employee has fertilizer for brains..

Let me get this straight - your quandry here is that you have an extra box of shotshells and a new shotgun, but are uncertain what to do with them??
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I have seen what a load of # 8 shot will do to a human at 10 feet. Anyone who says it won't put someone down is ignorant of the facts.
 
ok, let me explain this again. I have slugs for the range. I can't take birdshot into the range, i just called and confirmed. I don't have a wooded area I can go into to unload for kicks.

Anyway, I do understand the intimidation effect of firing a shotgun. But, as colt did make a good point, someone who is mentally off the wall won't care. I do have my 45 as well. The shotgun is still scarier though.

I knocked on a guys door once and he answered the door saying his shot gun was right there as he picked it up(he didn't point it) from the side of the door. It made me pretty uneasy but I wasn't there for trouble I was there for good reasons =)
 
I have seen what a load of # 8 shot will do to a human at 10 feet. Anyone who says it won't put someone down is ignorant of the facts.
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No, Bill, what is ignorant is suggesting that a birdshot load has some guarantee of lethality and instant incapacitation. It just isn't so. There are no guarantees - period.
 
If you really don't want the box of 7 1/2's I'm sure you could return them...

But like others told you - go to another range and practice with the gun.

Putting 10 boxes of bird shot thru that gun for practice / would be a good week ....and teach you a lot more about the gun than getting into a discussion about "bird shot for defense issue ...". I don't think the shop did a bad thing / I think they're suggesting you practice ...
 
i know. I personally would not want to be on the receiving end of a full load of #7 1/2. well, maybe at 50 yards. but under 10 yards, no thanks
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There are a lot of things I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of, but that doesn't make them a good choice for self defense.
 
I doubt a return is possible - every store I have been in has a no returns policy for ammunition and components.

Just either use them or trade them to someone you know who DOES shoot targets/birds for something else - not a big issue worthy of two pages of bandwidth
 
Or find the website for your state's fish and game...

... wildlife management, or whatever they call it in your state.... and see if there are any public, outdoor ranges near you, where you can shoot shotguns.

Or, find and join a club for trap, skeet, or sporting clays.

Or, see if any of your friends have some acreage out in the sticks. (I have a few of those; kind of nice being able to shoot from the comfort of the back porch....)

There are a few reasons you can't shoot shotshells at many ranges: concern for the mess / possibility of environmental impact fees as pellets go all over the place outdoors; slightly higher possibility of damage to target holders and range equipment at outdoor and indoor ranges; high possibility of ricochets with steel shot at indoor ranges. A friend in Florida who has an indoor range has had issues with that last one; he now allows only slugs, and only allows people he knows personally to bring shotguns into his range.

However, you still should be able to find a place where you can use shot within a reasonable drive of wherever you are. It just may take some work.
 
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Has anyone else here seen what birdshot does in ballistic gel? I have. If you're under, say, 20 feet from your target, birdshot will pretty much turn it into haggis. I'm not saying it's the ultimate home defense round, but people tend to grossly underestimate the power of a round of bird shot when it's properly used. Go to the local police, and ask them how many times they've seen a perpetrator keep coming after getting hit with a load of birdshot at HD ranges.
 
I agree that birdshot is better than nothing...much better than nothing in fact.

However, no matter how you slice it, unless you are concerned about overpenetration...buckshot is better for home defense.

Just do the math (pun intended): A load of buckshot (say with 12 pellets) has 12 projectiles that are 0.33 inches in diameter...this is a little smaller in diameter than a 9mm (or 38, 357). If you hit your nemesis with even half of these, that is 6 fairly large holes...it is granted that the weight of these pellets is much less than a 9mm (or 38, 357)...but you still have a lot of holes to leak from.

From 10 feet, it doesn't matter what you use...but how do we know for sure what the distance will be?
 
Ballistic gel is not a comparison medium for humans or any other animal. It is a consistent material that is also transparent. It is simply a material that allows comparisons of characteristics between various design and manufacture differences. That said, you cannot get a guaranteed depth of penetration nor wound channel in enuff situations with simple birdshot. The kind of variations that ballistic gel does not have the ability to factor in.
Thus the nick name for miscreant young males... "Young Buck":eek:
Brent
 
At anything more than point blank range, birdshot will give you nothing more that a big bloody but mostly superficial wound.

I just can't understand why some people just HAVE to have the birdshot.
 
Who just HAS to have the birdshot?

I don't think any poster in this thread has advocated birdshot.

Some of us have said that it very well can be lethal, at close ranges. Some of us have pointed out that smaller shot is recommended if you live in something along the lines of an apartment building.

Most of us, though, have indicated that we generally recommend buck.

Nice strawman, though.
 
pretty much thats what I got told. that the 7 1/2 won't go through walls. and the 00 is like shooting a bunch of 9mm bullets(his words not mine) so because I am uneducated about the subject, naturally I am going to believe the guy behind the counter. Live and learn :D
 
Any ammo can and will penetrate a wall at HD distance with a force high enough to cause great bodily harm.

My way of looking at it is "Nothing slows a projectile like warm squishy torso." Missing the target with loved ones or other innocent folks behind the BG is just unacceptable. Know your target and what lies beyond is rule number one for setting up an HD shot. Hitting said target has to be rule #2. That said, it don't matter if you choose 00 buck as the risk is mitigated by the greatly slowed projectiles:D;)
Brent
 
Rampant_Colt wrote:
300 pound drunken/druggie biker
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Thats just blatant biker profiling. Why couldn`t it have been a 300 pound drunken/druggie balerina or tennis player:mad::D:D:D. Kyo, sounds as though you`re in a quandrey thats more important than what to do with that 25rd box of birdshot. No place to shoot new shotgun other than with slugs. Do you realize how many slugs you`ll have to put down the barrel to be sufficient enough to use shotgun for HD. My suggestion is to find a spot were you CAN shoot that box of birdshot along with 3-4 cases more. Then survey your home and choose the best HD round for your situation,get some of that and shoot some more. Remember other than your CCW your HD weapon is the one you should be most efficient with and that requires continual practice,practice and more of the same. For what its worth, if your around Ohio I can probably hook you up with a place.
 
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