U.S. pays for care of illegal aliens

[kjm]

The easiest and simplest is to simply send 100% of all the illegal immigrants that cross the U.S.-Mexican border to one specific location in Mexico.

That is an effective way to curtail the numbers. My good friend who married the gringo said that for years he was simply deported to his home in Piedras Negras. The very last time he was deported he got sent to Tiajuanna and had to figure out how to get back home then. That caused him to start shopping for an American Bride. Incidentally, he is among the most law-abiding, good-natured people I've worked with in a while.

Your policy would work I believe and create some problems on the Mexican side when Matamoros gets a half-million folks not from there, and Tiajuanna gets another half million.

Still- lucrative jobs here will keep them comming so long as they are available. It isn't that they're being hired solely on price alone. Russian Immigrants come here all the time, and the people I've known who hired them wouldn't ever hire them again. Same with Nigerians. Mexicans have a work ethic that makes them attractive to employers who care more about work getting done than who's doing the work.

 

[ahenry]

Your policy would work I believe and create some problems on the Mexican side when Matamoros gets a half-million folks not from there, and Tiajuanna gets another half million.

Try putting the whole million plus in one place and see what sort of problems Mexico develops. Picking a location that allows for the easiest enforcement on our side also gives us a better advantage.

Still- lucrative jobs here will keep them comming so long as they are available.

I agree, which is why we need far stronger interior enforcement as well as prosecution of employers that knowingly hire illegal aliens. As an aside, this is something Bush is doing at a far greater level than any of his predecessors.

 

[kjm]

I somewhat agree that penalties here can discourage the behavior in a slight degree, however like the enforcement of drug laws, it seems disproportionately expensive for the benefit it provides. I can't imagine how much it would cost us to hire the agents needed to truly run an effective interior enforcement program and I would fear that like the commission that Jimmy Carter constituted to discuss the war on drugs and make recommendations: Enforcement of the law does more damage to American society than the crime itself.

There has got to be a cheaper, more effective way to solve this problem which is probably why it isn't getting tried. Budgets and power don't grow on cheap government programs and it is hard to build an effective bureaucratic career by cutting costs and increasing productivity.

In almost every case I've seen of government trying to solve a problem, they usually take the most ineffective and expensive route first and after 70 or so years, they see the light and change the law.

Because I've lived in Texas all my life and in the Southern parts a good chunk of that, I've grown accustomed to wets and don't mind them. It's a fact of my life. It has occurred all my life and I haven't seen the violence or mayhem that folks are speaking about here.

Perhaps rather than chase the litter bugs in the deserts and brush country with border patrol agents, we should just turn the EPA and the Sierra Club loose on them, make a few public adds showing poor little raccoons and bunnies choking on their litter, and the poor hapless do-gooders would drive them all out forever.

 

[JohnKSa]

Well, I'm not happy about my tax money being used like that, but I AM happy that it will probably lower the cost of my personal healthcare.

See, the people living in border states have seen their healthcare costs skyrocket in the past few years. I've gotten raises both of the past two years and yet I have taken home less money due to the increase in my healthcare costs. That's because the healthcare industry in this area has simply passed on the cost of providing free healthcare for Northern Mexico to its paying customers.

This shares the problem and as a result, perhaps more people will recognize that it IS a problem.

 

[ahenry]

Because I've lived in Texas all my life and in the Southern parts a good chunk of that, I've grown accustomed to wets and don't mind them. It's a fact of my life. It has occurred all my life and I haven't seen the violence or mayhem that folks are speaking about here.

I was born, raised, and continue to live in Texas, and south Texas for much of that as well. My father was before me. The same is true for my grandfather before him. His father before him was also, and his father came to Texas as young boy when Texas and Mexico were having their little squabbles. That has nothing to do with anything. The fact that you either can’t or are unable to see a problem doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Considering that this is an internet message board and really nothing more than a discussion, I’d say I have provided more than enough evidence to support my claims regarding illegal immigrants. All you can point to is rare, personal encounters with an illegal immigrant here or there. Are you really so arrogant as to suggest that based on that you are able to draw an accurate conclusion?

 

[9mmsnoopy]

""In no circumstances are hospitals required to ask people about their citizenship status," McClellan said yesterday."


to that i ask, why the hell not?? if the illegals were not getting free healthcare and educations,and food stamps,wic cards,free cheese,etc... they would stop coming! people who hire them should be arrested.

 

[Charley]

I don't believe that in any moral or ethical case could be made that emergency care should ever be denied. Even when they only have a cold, we should see them and treat them.

This actually brings up a good point. What constitutes an emergency? Anything that shows up at the emergency room? I know that here, most family doctors are closed by 8:00pm or so, so the local emergency room gets everything after that including real emergencies, as well as nose bleeds, sore throats, red eye, etc. I believe that anyone that shows up with a life threatening situation should be given aid, regardless of who they are. But from what I understand, "emergency" care far too often includes the infamous "cold" and other non life threatening problems and I have a real problem with this.
This is good for the border states only as a temporary bandade. It is Presidende Vicente Bush's way of throwing them a bone in the hope that they will quiet down and let him continue "business as usual"...that is continuing to withhold real border security to this country.

 

[kjm]

Yeah it really bites, but you turn one of those illiterate Mexicans away from the Emergency room door and his cold turns out to be something worse, you might be surprised how quickly he can scream for his lawyer. A lawsuit like that is far more expensive than just treating them, giving them sugar pills, and sending them on their way.

There is a triage system, and I would make all real non-emergencies wait for HOURS. In the mean-time, if I were the INS, I'd be checking the waitingrooms frequently. (see- another cheap solution to a major problem- I'll send it to W for imediate action)

 

[shootinstudent]

I would even go so far as to turn a blind eye to immigration in emergency rooms. If some illegal is out there with a new, resistant strain of TB or some other infectious disease, do you really want to give him an incentive not to go to the hospital, where he can be diagnosed and quarantined?

Yeah, I know, he shouldn't be here in the first place, but illegals are and there's no sense in taking the kinds of risk that denying health care imposes on the rest of us because of it.

 

[Fred Hansen]

Quote:
"Because I've lived in Texas all my life and in the Southern parts a good chunk of that, I've grown accustomed to wets and don't mind them. It's a fact of my life. It has occurred all my life and I haven't seen the violence or mayhem that folks are speaking about here."

I was born, raised, and continue to live in Texas, and south Texas for much of that as well. My father was before me. The same is true for my grandfather before him. His father before him was also, and his father came to Texas as young boy when Texas and Mexico were having their little squabbles. That has nothing to do with anything. The fact that you either can’t or are unable to see a problem doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Considering that this is an internet message board and really nothing more than a discussion, I’d say I have provided more than enough evidence to support my claims regarding illegal immigrants. All you can point to is rare, personal encounters with an illegal immigrant here or there. Are you really so arrogant as to suggest that based on that you are able to draw an accurate conclusion?

Just in case you may have missed ahenry's post.

I've grown accustomed to wets and don't mind them.

Personally I don't like the idea of having my country filled with 4th class slave laborers.

giving them sugar pills, and sending them on their way.

but you turn one of those illiterate Mexicans away from the Emergency room door and his cold turns out to be something worse

So we give a "wet" who is in the midst of full-blown Tuberculosis "sugar-pills" and send him on his way? Then we take the fake information he gave us (since we have no freakin' idea who he is, how he got here, or where he came from) and send the bill to Mexico for payment, and if they refuse to pay - in gold as you specified - we slap tariffs on goods that we are unable to tariff (due to NAFTA) and no doubt we have the ultimate "cheap (non) solution to a major problem" that you, by your own admission, entirely fail to see.

Wow!

 

[ahenry]

I have a big problem with the billions of dollars that we spend taking care of people that are not supposed to be in this country and therefore, not supposed to be a burden on the American taxpayer. That said, morally speaking, I think we must care for those that are in life threatening situations. In the past I have made my own sacrifices (albeit small ones) in order to try and save a wets life, and I’ll do so again if need be. It’s the only right and moral thing to do, and it is the right thing for a hospital to do. However, while I personally feel this is the right thing to do, I do not believe it is the domain of the federal or state gov’t to pay for it through forced donations from its citizens. And if it’s not right for taxpayers to foot the bill on this, then it should be abundantly clear that the gov’t has no business requiring the hospitals to care for illegals. Personally, I think there should be some sort of “paupers” hospital.

There is a triage system, and I would make all real non-emergencies wait for HOURS.

You’ve obviously never been to a hospital that is full of illegal aliens, I have. In fact, my “non-emergency” condition from a vehicle accident consisting of slightly torn ligaments in my knee, cracked ribs, and a broken collarbone took more than eight hours to be treated, and even then the care was atrocious. This was at one of two major hospitals in the town, which in any other location would have been more than sufficient to handle the workload. It wasn’t specifically the hospitals fault, they weren’t sitting around drinking coffee while I waited, but they were horribly understaffed. The hospitals there can’t afford the number of doctors and nurses they need to handle the number of patients they receive, and they can’t afford to pay them as much as they can make in other locations. This causes an overall lowering of the quality of care for those of us that can and do pay.

I would even go so far as to turn a blind eye to immigration in emergency rooms. If some illegal is out there with a new, resistant strain of TB or some other infectious disease, do you really want to give him an incentive not to go to the hospital, where he can be diagnosed and quarantined?

I agree with this. Given the lack of preventative health care in the nations that generate the most illegal aliens, it is in our own best interest to catch whatever diseases they bring over before it gets out of hand.

 

[9mmsnoopy]

ever had to wait in line at the grocery store behind an illegal? i have been in line behind them several times and delayed because they grabbed the wrong milk. see, they are getting free milk at our expense, but are sposed to get the store brand, well enevitably they will grab some Bordens milk. i make a nice living and i cant even afford to drink that stuff. and of course they have to find someone who speaks spanish to tell the "mexican national"
what they should have got in the first place. i usually will ask the clerk "where can i go get my free milk?"

 

[shootinstudent]

9mmsnoopy,

You don't like waiting in line behind hispanic non-english speakers. You also are jealous of the brands of milk that non-english speakers on welfare attempt to buy.

Therefore, no health care for illegal immigrants? What gives?

 

[drinks]

Titles

The names are a real problem, undocumented immigrant is the pl name, visiting workers is another sob sister thing, illegal immigrants is closer, the technical term is criminal alien invaders, we really should start a trend of using that term, mght get more attention, at least when you heard someone use something else, you would know more about their position on being invaded by foreign criminals.
Don

 

[JohnKSa]

Therefore, no health care for illegal immigrants? What gives?

Bloody HECK! That's one of the most ignorant statements I've seen in a long time.

This isn't about them getting healthcare or not.
THEY'RE ALREADY GETTING FREE HEALTHCARE.

I'M PAYING FOR IT!
And so is everyone else in the border states.

This is about sharing the cost throughout the country via taxes as opposed to concentrating the costs on the paying customers in the locales that are afflicted with high percentages of illegal aliens.

Did you have any other questions?

 

[9mmsnoopy]

to that i say AMEN John. what if i went to mexico and got sick and had no money or insurance, are they going to take care of me? hell no.

 

[Fred Hansen]

And so is everyone else in the border states.

Every state in the nation that I know of - with perhaps the exception of Alaska and Hawaii - is paying for it. I live in Washington state. Our state is being bankrupted by healthcare costs for illegals. While it is true that we border Canuckistan, Mexico/Central/South America is a fair piece from here.

 

[shootinstudent]

JohnKsa: Respectfully, I must point out that you clearly misread my post. It was a summary of 9mmsnoopy's argument.


Fred, John, and snoopy: We will pay much more for inadequate healthcare facilities in the long run than we ever have paid for illegal immigrant care. Refusing treatment to illegals on the "principle" that you shouldn't have to pay for it is silly, in large part because of the reason listed above. How cheap would immigrant care become if, undetected, an immigrant spread a brand new virus all over the US?

 

[Fred Hansen]

No need to go to "new viruses" since the illegal immigrants swarming all of the lower 48 states are already spreading diseases that were essentially eradicated here. The very fact that they seasonally swarm our border ILLEGALLY means that by definition they do so in a way that goes undetected until it is too late to stop the spread of disease.

People with third world mindsets are like that. To them tuberculosis is just another aspect of the impoverished culture they cling to. Me, I've got no use for that, I want the people who live in my country to want to be American. The folks south of the border can take their campesino crap back to the barrio hellhole they crawled out of.

On the other hand if people want to come here to be Americans - and agree to undergo background checks, health and fitness checks, and agree to learn the rudiments of American society - then I gladly welcome them here.

Other than that they should be rounded up and booted out. Let them spread tuberculosis and dengue (and other hemoragic fevers) back home. I don't need them here.

 

[9mmsnoopy]

". How cheap would immigrant care become if, undetected, an immigrant spread a brand new virus all over the US"


heres a novel concept for you shootingstudent. how about we keep them from coming here in the first place, then we wont have to worry about them spreading anything nor paying for thier care. what part of "moocher" do you not understand?