U.N. making homeschooling illegal?

It's a mistake to believe that all homeschoolers are religious fundamentalists who don't want their kids to know about evolution. A large number of the homeschoolers I know are libertarians and/or secular humanists who are fully aware of the importance of a well-rounded education including science. (I for one plan on homeschooling because I don't believe in substandard education, not because I don't "believe" in evolution.)
 
Handy, hating the UN is not the latest fad, the UN has EARNED their reputation. Don't blame America for the fact that the UN is a failed group of know nothing left wing dictators.

If public schools started to convert over to private they would perform far beyond any liberal public school. We could give education a whole new future and attract great educators back into the field of real teaching.

Give parents their hard earned money back so they can CHOOSE a GOOD school for their kids.
 
There is a huge difference that should be noted: There are different kinds of homeschooling. One kind involves a curriculum devised by the parent or whatever person is chosen to do the teaching. Another involves state-approved curriculum that mirrors what others in the same grade level are provided.

Here in Alaska, due to a lack of schools in all rural areas, and that there are a lot of people who just live out in the boonies, the state decided to offer a correspondance based home school system, that employed actual teachers who would review and grade work sent in to them.

Now, the irony in my situation is, that although I did do this correspondance home schooling, I was also raised in a rather fundamental religious home. The two were not exactly linked though. Whether or not it was the right decision for me, I was not forced into it, even at grade school level, hearing about public school from my older brother and sister, and from friends, I knew I'd be better off studying at home. Often I had the exact same textbooks to use as my friends did in public school. Except I finished my courses as fast as I wanted. By the time I was in 9th grade, I could finish an entire semester in 3 or 4 weeks.

It had its blessing and curses, but I think I came away with a decent education. I didn't graduate through it, when my junior year was going to extend to two years due to counselors conveniently 'forgetting' they approved certain special courses for my required credits in math and science, I decided I had enough. At least I got my GED though. And I have a job in the exciting career of Insurance! Extorting premiums and denying claims since 1882!
:D
 
Regarding homeschooling, I saw NOTHING in the convention that in any way threatened homeschooling:

Article 28
1. States Parties recognize the right of the child to education, and with a view to achieving this right progressively and on the basis of equal opportunity, they shall, in particular:
(a) Make primary education compulsory and available free to all;

(b) Encourage the development of different forms of secondary education, including general and vocational education, make them available and accessible to every child, and take appropriate measures such as the introduction of free education and offering financial assistance in case of need;

(c) Make higher education accessible to all on the basis of capacity by every appropriate means;

(d) Make educational and vocational information and guidance available and accessible to all children;

(e) Take measures to encourage regular attendance at schools and the reduction of drop-out rates.

2. States Parties shall take all appropriate measures to ensure that school discipline is administered in a manner consistent with the child's human dignity and in conformity with the present Convention.

3. States Parties shall promote and encourage international cooperation in matters relating to education, in particular with a view to contributing to the elimination of ignorance and illiteracy throughout the world and facilitating access to scientific and technical knowledge and modern teaching methods. In this regard, particular account shall be taken of the needs of developing countries.
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addendum

1. There is a general tendency in Europe to regard universal (free education) as a basic, fundamental right. There are many in U.S. who also hold the same POV.

2. Constitutional issues --- murky since there was no federal public school during the time of founding and most schools were privately funded in the early years, despite relatively high literacy rate.

3. home schooled children are ranked no. 1, graduates of private schools are ranked no. 2, and public school children are ranked the last.

4. my understanding is that functional competency counts far more than any training in education (B.A. in English qualifies a teacher to be a far better English teacher than a degree in Education). My current suspicion is that the current system of using study material similar to public school do far more harm than good.

5. under the current system, what matters is not what the written law says, but it's based on case law which presents a precedent for how to interpret the intent of the law. Even if the basis for the case law/precedent is flawed....until somebody comes with a challenge that overturns the precedent.

John Stossell did a very good segment on public education couple of months ago called "Stupid in America."

--John
 
Marko, I'm sure your kids will do fine with your homeschooling; however, while I dont believe that all homeschoolers are religious zealots, I do believe that most homeschoolers are religious zealots and/or folks who inhabit the far fringe right...lots of conspiratorialists in that bunch. The so-called rankings to which you refer are overly simplistic, with little attention to the "long-run" effects of homeschooling.

My personal preference would be a good public school, and they do exist, depending on one's socio-economic environment. My second preference would be a good private school. Homeschooling wouldn't be in the mix.
 
There is a general tendency in Europe to regard universal (free education) as a basic, fundamental right. There are many in U.S. who also hold the same POV.
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You know, I was born in Europe, and I don't share that viewpoint, despite taking advantage of that "free" education when I was school-aged.

First, there's the philosophical aspect: how can you have a basic, fundamental right to something that is financed by someone else? If you have a right to "free" education, then other people have the obligation to pay for it.

Second, a "free" education is not free. You end up paying for it by way of much higher taxes on everything, from a 40% income tax to a 19% VAT and so on.

You cannot legislate yourself "free" anything. Someone else has to pay for it in the end.
 
Having been raised in Wisconsin, where the majority of public highschools offer educations that rival many colleges, I don't understand the problem. Public education can be excellent, and free of any undue "influence" from either the right or the left.

So I'll just observe that there is nothing implicitly wrong with public education - it is a good bang for the buck, if properly administrated.

If your state can't handle it, is that the fault of the basic system, or the locals that are making a mess of it? I note that some of the states with bad public schools can't seem to build roads or manage state pensions, either.

Don't blame America for the fact that the UN is a failed group of know nothing left wing dictators.
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Huh? Who's "blaming America"? I only said that this appears to be more tinfoil hat action, lacking the substance one would normally associate with a "problem".
 
Hey handy, Wisconson has the lowest graduation rate of black students in the country fallowed by MN and CA.

The liberals have most of those folks LOCKED into a failed social welfare system that will never let them spread they're wings fly away from the claws of liberal socialism.

Check Manhatten institute.
 
Are you implying that states graduation rates are tied to quality of education? Or could it be that states that will hand a diploma to someone who can't read have higher graduation rates than states with high standards?

Going to school or not is a social problem. Providing good education once there is the school system's job - not forcing someone's kids to show up.
 
I've been reading your posts for a while Handy and finally agree with you. Graduation rates of black, hispanic, blue or gold students has nothing to do with the quality of education except that maybe those not graduating could not hold the standard that was set. There is nothing wrong with setting a high standard and holding every student to the same standard. If a kid can't read in the 12th grade maybe he shouldn't graduate........or how about if a kid can't maintain the standard of the grade he's in you keep him the that grade until he can. If we would go back to holding everyone accountable for their actions or lack of action we would be much better of as a society as a whole.
 
In 2003 Milwaukee high school students who attended privae schools with vouchers so parents could choose had a grad rate of 64%

Milwaukee public schools held only an overall grad rate from 37 high schools of 36 dismall%.

I stated blacks, because handy bragged about th Wis. school system as a hot ed zone, NOT!

Home and private schooling BLOW away public lame liberal underachiving schools any time, day, place, subject, and I bet the food is better too!
 
Parents that choose private schooling obviously encourage education. So they'll of course have a higher graduation rate than the default public choice. So it doesn't demonstrate anything.


You may be interested to learn that Milwaukee is only one of several cities located in the state. I do not claim that every student in a particular state is good or bad. But I do know what my school was like, and that it was in no way unusual in the programs it offered or the quality of work and pre-college education it offered. There were no amazing personalities guiding the school system - just regular people who did their jobs.
 
Yea Yea......

So back in reality, those parents want they're kids to learn how to wear a tie instead of a nose ring or spell Fifty instead of Fiddy. How about teaching english and not ebonics. How to enjoy reading at 12 years old instead of oral sex and drugs.

As far as the UN goes, they should worry about Americans learning more about they're sick and twisted ways of exploiting children and other peoples money.
 
Handy, "public high schools rival colleges"

Handy said:
Having been raised in Wisconsin, where the majority of public highschools offer educations that rival many colleges, I don't understand the problem. Public education can be excellent, and free of any undue "influence" from either the right or the left.

So I'll just observe that there is nothing implicitly wrong with public education - it is a good bang for the buck, if properly administrated.
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Until around 4th grade, best students in U.S. public schools do on par or better compared with students in other countries. By the time you get to high school, best U.S. students lag far behind best students in Europe and other countries. BTW, in this example, we are comparing best U.S. students against best students in other countries so it's not apples and oranges, but apples vs. apples.

It was mentioned in John Stossel's TV segment "Stupid in America."

--John
 
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Ausserordeutlich, "good public school"

Ausserordeutlich said:
My personal preference would be a good public school, and they do exist, depending on one's socio-economic environment. My second preference would be a good private school. Homeschooling wouldn't be in the mix.
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Parent's income, educational level, and marital status (married/divorced/out-of-wedlock) play a role in the children's educational attainment. But note that even the best U.S. high students lag far behind their European counterparts.

While our notion of "good public school" might be good on a comparative scale compared to Washington D.C. public school system, it falls far behind what truly good education is.

And it shows. Significant percentage of undergraduate university students in math, physics, and engineering are foreign students. By the time you get to graduate level, it's almost all foreign students. It's not that foreign students are smarter in mathematics....they simply had proper math education in high school where repetition and problem solving skill were emphasized.

--John
 
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carbiner, blacks/Milwaukee

carbiner said:
In 2003 Milwaukee high school students who attended privae schools with vouchers so parents could choose had a grad rate of 64%

Milwaukee public schools held only an overall grad rate from 37 high schools of 36 dismall%.

I stated blacks, because handy bragged about th Wis. school system as a hot ed zone, NOT!

Home and private schooling BLOW away public lame liberal underachiving schools any time, day, place, subject, and I bet the food is better too!
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All things being equal, on a statistical basis, children from out-of-wedlock birth, second/third marriage, or single parents tend to do poorly in educational attainment, as well as demonstrating higher propensity to drop out of university education, commit adult felony crimes, demonstrate higher need for psychological counselling in adulthood, increased likelihood of financial problems in adulthood, etc.

I suspect the primarily reason blacks have a higher dropout rate and lower educational attainment is due to higher incidences of broken families.

Washington, D.C. voucher study
However, in Washington D.C., a study was conducted using private foundation grant money to send children of inner city ghetto (primarily black) to private schools. The children were chosen through lottery, guaranteeing random selection. Most of the parents were single parents living in inner city ghetto.

The result? They found out that when private voucher money was used, children demonstrated a lower dropout rate from private school compared to public school, higher educational attainment, and parents became more involved in the educational matters of their children because they now had the power of choices.

--John
 
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Marko, I'm sure your kids will do fine with your homeschooling; however, while I dont believe that all homeschoolers are religious zealots, I do believe that most homeschoolers are religious zealots and/or folks who inhabit the far fringe right...lots of conspiratorialists in that bunch. The so-called rankings to which you refer are overly simplistic, with little attention to the "long-run" effects of homeschooling.
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Most homeschoolers that I know are not religious zealots. Christian, yes, but not tinfoil hat wearing nutjobs. They are just normal people who want a better way of education for their kids.

So, just what are the "long-run" effects of homeschooling?
 
The left likes to make a claim to black people and public education. When a certain poster touted public education, I wanted to make a point.

When black people or any people are allowed to choose non liberal run/owned state institutions they do much better in life.
They can move away from welfare and being owned and used by the liberals/poverty pimps.

I don't want to get any farther of topic in this thread.
 
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