Trapped into a mouse gun

I think the question some should ask themselves is "How did I get trapped into a big gun". Let's face it a mouse gun is more than likely 10 times the gun than you will ever need if you use your head more than your balls and it will do the job with 80-90% of the efficientcy of a big gun if you do your part.

As for smince's comments what seems to you to be denial, optimism or laziness may be prudence and smart for someone else. Let's face it, if I had my druthers I wouldn't walk into a defensive situation with a handgun of any kind but a long gun. Maybe we should all be wearing trenchcoats and toting M4s and 12 ga's.

LK
 
Let's face it a mouse gun is more than likely 10 times the gun than you will ever need if you use your head more than your balls and it will do the job with 80-90% of the efficientcy of a big gun if you do your part.
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I carry both, which should I reach for first? Oh, wait, let me use my head. :rolleyes:

Let's face it, if I had my druthers I wouldn't walk into a defensive situation with a handgun of any kind but a long gun. Maybe we should all be wearing trenchcoats and toting M4s and 12 ga's.
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Lets really face it, shall we. Since we cant normally walk around with the M4, thats why we choose a "reasonable" handgun, one that has the best chance of letting us succeed in the "majority" of encounters, if we were to need it, not just the couple of scenarios we use to validate our choice. Since the M4 seems to be out, which is likely to fill that role?

One other thing, defense has nothing to do with things once they start. Its going to be as much offense as I can muster and sustain until its settled. Hopefully, I brought along more of everything than the other guy(s).
 
Lets really face it, shall we. Since we cant normally walk around with the M4, thats why we choose a "reasonable" handgun, one that has the best chance of letting us succeed in the "majority" of encounters, if we were to need it, not just the couple of scenarios we use to validate our choice. Since the M4 seems to be out, which is likely to fill that role?
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What is reasonable? Too you it's seems that it's 2 guns. Too someone else it may be no gun. Too some it's 4 guns and 200 rounds of ammo. Personally I think any non-professional with more than one gun and maybe a reload is paranoid or needs more time at the range.

As far as the best gun to succed in the "majority" of encounters, any gun including mouse guns can and will fill that role. In reality the best caliber is not head and shoulders above the worst caliber in SD. Is the best caliber better? Yes. But it's not like it's 10 times better or even twice as good. More like 10-20% better considering all aspects and scenarios that can happen in an encounter.

Some bad guys run at the sight of a gun, still more run at being shot at, still more run or fall over crying from mother with even the most minor wounds and most will DRT when hit in the brain pan or CNS no matter what the caliber. In all of these cases a mouse gun is as good as a .45.

LK
 
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Personally I think any non-professional with more than one gun and maybe a reload is paranoid or needs more time at the range.
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Oh, Im definitely paranoid, always have been, thats why Im still here. :)

I get plenty of range time too. Just got back a little while ago and had some dinner. Now its time to clean. Ah, the drudgery of trying to stay on top of things. But hey, we all have to do it, and all the time too, right?

As far as the best gun to succed in the "majority" of encounters, any gun including mouse guns can and will fill that role. In reality the best caliber is not head and shoulders above the worst caliber in SD. Is the best caliber better? Yes. But it's not like it's 10 times better or even twice as good. More like 10-20% better considering all aspects and scenarios that can happen in an encounter.
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I think whats more important than caliber, is a gun that you shoot well with, and are proficient with, out to real world distances, and allows you to deal with more things than less.

Real world to me is anywhere from face to face out to 50+ yards across a Walmart store, city block, parking lot, whatever. You just never know what your turn might offer, and you deal with what youre dealt as best you can.

Im comfortable with my choices, and capabilities, and thats all I really worry about. If youre comfortable with yours, great.

Some bad guys run at the sight of a gun, still more run at being shot at, still more run or fall over crying from mother with even the most minor wounds and most will DRT when hit in the brain pan or CNS no matter what the caliber. In all of these cases a mouse gun is as good as a .45.
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And for those cases where they arent impressed with you and/or your gun(s), no matter how big or little, then the only way to know is see what happens and whos left afterwards to tell the story.

If your mouse gun is enough gun, great. I prefer to bring more.
 
Well, I just play it safe and carry both.
My primary is a G26 Gen 3 in a DeSantis Tuck This II iwb w/ spare mag in the built in mag pouch.
My backup is a p3at in a Blackhawk size 04 pocket holster with a spare mag in the same pocket. I also keep the Mossberg JIC Kit in my vehicle, along with a Sub2000 (G17 grip), plus additional mags. No, I am not paranoid either, just like to be ready when the SHTF.
"Be Prepared"- The Boy Scout Motto
 
"Bill, since you and I have never had the pleasure of meeting, how can you say or infer that I look uncivilized by the choice of weapon I carry? No one sees it, as I've had many years of carrying concealed. I just never knew I was uncivilized by my pistol choice. I'll try and buy a smaller pistol to impress the gentry!"

I said I prefer to look civilized. I'm a small guy. I can conceal a 1911, but it's a lot of work. I prefer to be comfortable.
 
A 'mouse gun' is a one assailant gun (maybe). Sure, some BG's will run at the sight of a gun. Many won't

What if there are more than one? What if you miss with a round or two :eek: You say it will never happen?

Reality sucks sometimes and your gunfight most likely will not be what you've practiced for on the range.

Repeating the same quotes I already copied doesn't speak to me of someone who is serious about carry or going home to their family each night.

So my G19 and reload may be overkill for a single attacker. So what? I have a wife and son who I love and plan to be home with every possible night. And if we are out away from home, their safety is paramount to me.

I'm not leaving them in the hands of a 'mouse gun' :rolleyes:
 
These are just silly attitudes to have.

I'm not sure where this type of thinking comes from

Optimism?

Laziness?

Denial?
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Well, thank you for your concise opinion of what you perceive as my attitude! I do appreciate it. After reflecting upon what is, I am certain, your deep worry and concern for my welfare and the welfare of others like me who may carry a different rig than you, I came up with some answers. Forgive me, as I did not consult other small-gun aficionados, but I do dare to speak for some of them.

I believe our thinking involves a mixture of factors, including comfort, ability to place shots correctly, personal safety, and concealability - much the same factors that influenced your own weapon choice, no doubt.

Regardless, I DO approach the day with optimism. I believe it helps. I also attempt to be lazy once a day, just as you guessed. Sometimes this, too, leads me to have a nice part to my day - after ten or twelve hours, I do enjoy relaxing, as opposed to fretting over my carry piece, locking it up, and unloading it because it's uncomfortable to have on my hip when I fall into my lazy chair. (Oops! There I go again! Special chair for it, and all!) And as far as denial - well, I don't really think I am going to get shot. Ever. I carry in case I am wrong, but statistically, I'm much more likely to die at work, in a pool, in my truck, on my motorcycle. The laws of statistics being what they are, I insure myself, but to the degree that I feel peace. That degree is typically a small .22 in a pocket, and a spare magazine next to my wallet.

I'm not really sure how a G19 is leaps and bounds beyond a .22, but if it makes you sleep easier, carry it. Some would think one reload was too few, some would think 9 is too little gun, and some would think only one gun was too few. Evidently, you do not. I'm very confident in my abilities with my pistol, and the low cost of shooting it keeps me practicing more than I ordinarily would. Its tip-up barrel means no re-chambering rounds, risking setback, which in turn reduces the amount of time I have to spend preparing and un-preparing it for carry each day. Because of that, it resides on my person, literally, constantly. And I don't even think about printing, or being made - it just never happens, something that is not so easy with my larger handguns.

I wish, sir, the same thing I wish for the rest of my carrying brethren - that your chosen sidearm keep you mentally and physically peaceful.
 
I really don't see why I couldn't engage multiple attackers. :rolleyes:
For 38 years, I worked in the pit of downtown Memphis, TN- one of the most dangerous cities in the US, at the largest criminal justice center in the southeast. That's where all the bad guys hang out-most of them not by choice. I feel pretty confident I'm serious about carry, and I'm confident my gun will do what is necessary.
Certainly, if I knew there was going to be trouble, I would be more heavily armed. But, I don't think the boogie man, the gang members, the murderers, and the robbers I dealt with are out to get me. I'm just not that paranoid.
There have been a few times I wished I had a bigger gun, but I was damned glad I had a little one!
 
I carry a Glock 27 (40s&w) when ever possible. I only carry my Taurus TCP (.380) as a bug (back up gun) or in cases when I would not have been armed at all. The .380 round is not the round I would ever choose to protect my life if I had no limitations. But carrying a gun for protection is a compromise in itself. If we could, we would be carrying a 12 gauge shotgun or a full size rifle, AR, etc. So a handgun is a compromise. Then it becomes "how much do you want to compromise". A full size 45acp, a 357mag, a full size 10mm, etc. would be optimal, but some of us can't hide such a gun or it will pull our pants down, so we compromise more and carry a compact 45, 40 or 9mm. If our clothes can't cover one of those or if we are going somewhere where a gun is taboo, then we compromise still further with a bug gun such as a Taurus TCP or a Ruger LCP. It's just a matter of how much compromise we can live with.

Back in the "good ole days" in the wild, wild west they carried a rifle on their horse and one or two full sized pistols on their side. It would not be unusual to also see some kind of Derringer in a vest pocket or stuck in a boot. They didn't have to compromise as much because the laws didn't frown on a law abiding citizen carrying weapons to protect himself from the bad guys (you know, the ones in the black hats). Today our laws do everything they can to limit us from protecting ourselves the way we desire. I can't carry anything in SC when I'm up here taking care of my parents because I don't live in this state & I don't own property here., So I am a sitting duck for anybody who is intent on taking my belongings or simply wanting to do me harm as soon as I cross the GA/SC border. This really sux! I want a horse with a rifle tied to the saddle and two pistols on my hip.
 
There are also guy's like me around. Because of arthritis and major surgery one hand, I find that I can not work the slides of larger automatics. I also find the recoil of larger weapons hard to handle.
What I can shoot and handle well are full size .38's like my 4" Trooper. Just like the weapon I carried through most of the '70s. An ISW holster keeps it concealed under an untucked shirt. If you only have one good hand you use what works best.

God Bless;
Daryl
 
AK103K;

Looks like we are the minority on this site
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Yea, looks like it. :)

Thats fine too, Im not overly worried about being in the minority, Ill just switch my reloads to happy sticks. :D

I really don't see why I couldn't engage multiple attackers.
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No one is saying you cant. The question you need to answer realistically to yourself is, do I have enough gun along to sustain it if I do.

If your happy with whats in your pocket, then you have your answer. If you have trouble, and youre still happy afterwards, even better. If youre not happy in the middle, if things work out, the light may get brighter. Or not.

Certainly, if I knew there was going to be trouble, I would be more heavily armed. But, I don't think the boogie man, the gang members, the murderers, and the robbers I dealt with are out to get me. I'm just not that paranoid.
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Sure you are! And just like the old joke, we're now at the point of negotiating the rate. :)

I suppose some of us look at things like the mag is half full or half empty. Me, since Im terrible at predicting the future, and Murphy seems to have taken a liking to me, Id prefer not to get caught with it either way, I prefer mine hicap and full, along with a couple of reloads. The Seecamp is like those couple of "just in case" $100 bills you keep in your wallet, and really doesnt count, its just always there.

The 26, well that all depends. If I have to go down near Philly (the "Brotherly Love" thing is just a joke too by the way, especially in certain neighborhoods and out of the way places :) ) and a few other places like it, I always bring it along too. Its handy to have along to give to a buddy, that only brought along their silly little TPH. :)


I very much understand wanting to have "a gun" along. It just seems to me, if it warrants having one along, it warrants having one that is as close to my rifle in capacity and capability as I can get, instead of the other way around. Especially since its really not all that hard to carry the full size gun to start with.
 
I have worked for years in the Middle-East for foreign government entities as an anti-terrorism consultant. As a civilian over here, I do not carry, though there are times I am nervous about it. As the case of Raymond Davis in Pakistan indicates, it is not always a good idea to use a gun to end a security event. I do not carry here for just the reason that the case of Mr. Davis illustrates. You win, you still lose. Midnight Cowboy was right about the prisons here and you do not want to be an American security consultant in a Middle-Eastern prison.

When in the US, I carry a .40 Sig 226 IWB. I like having more than 10 rounds in a single mag that the Sig offers. I have a S&W Model 36 snub-nose .38 with hollow points that I carry if the situation makes the Sig unusable (clothing wise).

No matter what, if you have to pull, you had better be ready for big problems. It's always better not to pull unless a life will be lost. In nearly forty years, thank God I've never had to pull except at the range.
 
I do enjoy relaxing, as opposed to fretting over my carry piece, locking it up, and unloading it because it's uncomfortable to have on my hip when I fall into my lazy chair.
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I realize 'comfort' is the most important thing in many people's lives. But even with my 'extremely paranoid' carry gear, I don't find the need to constantly fiddle with, take on/off, load/unload, or lock it up just because I may be uncomfortable :rolleyes:

I often wear my gear 12+ hours a day and find I still have it on at bed time. I know that is difficult for the mousegunners to fathom.

FYI: I left the house approximately 6:30 a.m.

Two trips to the local Jr. High School (one to see my son in an assembly), two different banks, city hall and lunch in a nice sit-down restaurant. Plus about 3 hours of driving. No, I'm not now or have I ever been LE.

Carrying a Glock 19 with a JPoint mounted (AIWB), spare magazine (G17+2), two knives, phone and a light. No, I didn't need any of it.

Today.

Yes, I could have did fine, and been more 'comfortable' with a J-frame or Keltec .32 and no reload. Or no gun at all.

Today.

I'm still wearing it as I type this and am about to head off to a baseball meeting. Still wearing my carry gear. And I (probably) still won't need it while I'm out this trip either.

Today.

What about tomorrow?

Or the day after that?
 
Nope, never have looked down and wondered how did I get to this point. I have owned handguns in calibers from 22 short, to 44 magnum, to 300 Winchester magnum. I know how I have gotten to this point. When I look down at the Taurus 22 magnum on my hip I am totally satisfied.:)
 
Humor me here a little, but I think maybe this needs another perspective. :D

Lets say you were out hunting, and somehow you got some doe in heat on the seat of your pants. You had no luck, and youre back at the truck, and just put everything away, except your trusty TPH, 21A, LCP, Seecamp, take your pick, in your pocket (hey, you carry a 300 Win Mag in the woods, why would you need anything else?) and decide you need to take a leak before you go. As you round the front of the truck, there stands proud as can be, a nice (and horny) 180 pound 8 pointer, and youre sure looking cuter than hell in them Carhartts to him. Hes determined, and moving quick, and in your direction, and your hand is on your gun (not that gun, the real one) and you have to stop him. Are you now comfortable with your choice? :)

Seriously now and all kidding aside, its really not as much of a stretch as it might sound. Weight and mass are about right, its determined and the adrenaline is pumped, its not afraid of you, nor does it know (or care) if it dies, and it will do, what it has to, until it falls over dead, even with multiple hits. On top of it, its now a moving target and not acting like the stationary target you do so well on in practice at the range. Are you getting my drift? Or are you still batting your eyelashes in front of the truck? :D
 
I can't speak for anyone else, but I am still satisfied with my 22 magnum. By the way, do wild pigs running out of the underbrush count as stationary targets? I regularly practice firing while moving to cover and dabble in shooting tin cans thrown in the air.
Also, why would you think someone carries a 300 win mag in the woods?
 
If so, what did you do about it, or do you still carry a mouse gun?
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First, I am happy for all who have found a gun (or guns) that they are "comfortable" carrying; rule number one (having a gun with you) and all.

Carrying any handgun, especially concealed, is going to involve compromise; because we all know that "if we knew that today..." we would avoid it altogether or if that was not a choice we would bring our flamethrower, etc...

Because of where I live, and what I do, I conceal carry handguns between a .25 auto Beretta 950BS all the way up to a 10mm auto Colt Delta Elite.

There are times when I am being videoed and photographed standing in front of large groups of people for several hours at a time. Nothing like cameras and many sets of eyes staring to really get one to seriously consider "printing". I am also fairly animated when I speak; meaning lots of movement.

Could I IWB a Delta Elite in this situation? Probably. I have done it before. Was I comfortable doing so? Not really wanting to do this often with this much scrutiny. Am I comfortable under these conditions CCing a LCP or a 950 BS? Totally.

One the other hand, there are many moose and bears where I actually live. Am I comfortable walking around outside with the 950 BS? Heck no. I am more comfortable with the Delta Elite. (And even more so with Bear Spray and a 12 gauge.)

My thoughts are that we all have to consider our own personal situations, and then we can make our own "informed" and well thought out decisions.

And remember rule number one.
 
I read a gun magazine last year and one of the top gun men at the magazine (sorry I don't remember the name) said of all the weapons he has tested and has in his personal collection- his number one carry weapon was the Seacamp 32. Now I know we can't all be as proficient as he is, but it told me that whatever you feel most comfortable with and can hit the target with, should be the weapon you carry. Realistically, the chances of us coming up against a gang and needing to draw our weapon are small. I carry hoping I never need it. I carry for comfort and accuracy, so my Seacamp 32 is fine by me. Most self defense classes teach you the range you can legally use a weapon to defend yourself and under what circumstances you may use deadly force ,so long distances are not the issue. You are liable for where your shots go. Carry what you feel is right for you.

Current SRT medic- police department
 
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