Fine, then. Why is it okay to have 5-6 drinks a year but if you smoke 5-6 joints a year you are a criminal? Because it's illegal? Gimme a break. I'm sorry, but the fact that alcohol is legal and pot isn't has got to be one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard, and a large percentage of people agree with me. The whole thing is a money making farce and if you can't see that, there's no help for you. And don't play the "It's illegal-PERIOD" card with me because there's so many laws now for so many things that it's virtually impossible to be 100% law abiding. Ever catch yourself speeding? Speeding has killed more people than pot, and it's illegal. And if you say you don't ever break the speed limit, then I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Mmmmkay?
Time for a rethink? (drug war)
- Thread starter Northern Sod Breaker
- Start date
Fine, then. Why is it okay to have 5-6 drinks a year but if you smoke 5-6 joints a year you are a criminal? Because it's illegal? Gimme a break. I'm sorry, but the fact that alcohol is legal and pot isn't has got to be one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard, and a large percentage of people agree with me. The whole thing is a money making farce and if you can't see that, there's no help for you. And don't play the "It's illegal-PERIOD" card with me because there's so many laws now for so many things that it's virtually impossible to be 100% law abiding. Ever catch yourself speeding? Speeding has killed more people than pot, and it's illegal. And if you say you don't ever break the speed limit, then I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Mmmmkay?applesanity
New member
Just playing devil's advocate here....
Red herring. For the sake of argument we'll assume booze and ganj are similar enough to draw such a comparison (yeah, right) - then the flaw is that you can draw two valid conclusions instead of one: legalize both or ban them all. Not what you were looking for.
Same kind of argument.
Cigarettes help soothe a stressful day on the job; pot makes you think Pink Floyd, burritos, and orange soda are the holy trinity.
Actually, Mary Jane is not addictive. However, she always treats you nice, she doesn't mind that you haven't cleaned the gutters, and she's always in the mood. But addictive? No.
How exactly does one abuse the reefer? By getting super-munchies?
Desslock said:
Red herring. For the sake of argument we'll assume booze and ganj are similar enough to draw such a comparison (yeah, right) - then the flaw is that you can draw two valid conclusions instead of one: legalize both or ban them all. Not what you were looking for.
divemedic said:
Same kind of argument.
divemedic said:
Cigarettes help soothe a stressful day on the job; pot makes you think Pink Floyd, burritos, and orange soda are the holy trinity.
divemedic said:
Actually, Mary Jane is not addictive. However, she always treats you nice, she doesn't mind that you haven't cleaned the gutters, and she's always in the mood. But addictive? No.
divemedic said:
How exactly does one abuse the reefer? By getting super-munchies?
bushidomosquito
New member
tc, you managed to miss my point entirely yet again, or perhaps you're purposly ignoring it. "Druggies" are people who abuse drugs to the point that it adversly affects their lives. You can't slap that lable on everyone. I could call you an alcholic since you have 5-6 drinks a year and I don't drink at all but that would be stupid.
Many, many, many, many, many people use drugs recreationally and their lives are no worse off for it. It's a fact that you can dispute but you would be wrong. Wether you sit down with a gun rag and a glass of brandy or sit down and pop in Dark Side of the Moon and have a bong hit it's the same thing and of no one elses concern.
I started off in my teens and twenties with a pretty fast assed crowd as far as drugs and liquor are concerned. As I grew up and evolved I started to have many more interests and goals and systematicly weeded (no pun intended) the friends who would not change out of my life until I was faced with having to make all new friends. Once I even smoked some heroin and loved it so much that I decided that I would never do it again because I could see how people get so easily wrapped up in it. Despite having always been a very instant gratification addictive personality kind of dude, I still made good choices and turned out just fine. That proves to me that people let drugs ruin their lives, It doesn't just happen any more than a gun tells you to kill someone.
When will we learn to apply our "inanimate objects aren't evil, people who abuse them are evil" logic to everything instead of just guns.
And here's where the young pot smokin' debate team captian in me want's to chime in and say, You can't dispute that. You can have feelings that your mommy or pastor or nanny state has beaten into your head that contradict that but you can't dispute it. Now where's that smilie with the toung sticking out and the thumbs in the ears with fingers wagglin'?
Many, many, many, many, many people use drugs recreationally and their lives are no worse off for it. It's a fact that you can dispute but you would be wrong. Wether you sit down with a gun rag and a glass of brandy or sit down and pop in Dark Side of the Moon and have a bong hit it's the same thing and of no one elses concern.
I started off in my teens and twenties with a pretty fast assed crowd as far as drugs and liquor are concerned. As I grew up and evolved I started to have many more interests and goals and systematicly weeded (no pun intended) the friends who would not change out of my life until I was faced with having to make all new friends. Once I even smoked some heroin and loved it so much that I decided that I would never do it again because I could see how people get so easily wrapped up in it. Despite having always been a very instant gratification addictive personality kind of dude, I still made good choices and turned out just fine. That proves to me that people let drugs ruin their lives, It doesn't just happen any more than a gun tells you to kill someone.
When will we learn to apply our "inanimate objects aren't evil, people who abuse them are evil" logic to everything instead of just guns.
And here's where the young pot smokin' debate team captian in me want's to chime in and say, You can't dispute that. You can have feelings that your mommy or pastor or nanny state has beaten into your head that contradict that but you can't dispute it. Now where's that smilie with the toung sticking out and the thumbs in the ears with fingers wagglin'?
My exact point- making one legal while the other is illegal is ludicrous. You cannot say that one is bad and the other not without being a hypocrite.
Silly. They both alter behavior. Granted, through different receptors, but still alter behavior. They are both psychoactive.
Marijuana, alcohol and nicotine are addictive and are abused. From the NIH:
Abused:
Even with all of that said, if a person WANTS to abuse his or her body, so what? Next we will pass laws requiring good eating habits, a mandatory daily exercise period, and 8 hours of sleep a day.
Silly. They both alter behavior. Granted, through different receptors, but still alter behavior. They are both psychoactive.
Marijuana, alcohol and nicotine are addictive and are abused. From the NIH:
Abused:
Even with all of that said, if a person WANTS to abuse his or her body, so what? Next we will pass laws requiring good eating habits, a mandatory daily exercise period, and 8 hours of sleep a day.
Because one way or another the taxpayer ends up footing the bill when most abusers finally hit rock bottom.
Your kidding right? Would you let your fifth grader son or daughter smoke pot in your garage recreationally? Why not...your argument is that it isnt any worse than the coke or pepsi you're letting them guzzle by the gallon.
Sheez...you people really need to sit in on a Narcotics Anonymous meeting and have your eyes opened. Better yet, do it right and visit your local drug treatment center. You aint seen nothin' until you have seen a 16 year old heroin addict who started down the path of addiction by smoking marijuana cigarettes at 11.
After that...ask the drug treatment center administrator the cost of treatment per head. Never mind the human cost and how it affects families. Keep it strictly about the dollar cost of medical treatment. Then ask how many of the patients are paying their own way and how many are on the state's dime.
Get back to us when you have.
applesanity
New member
That's all fine and dandy. Now the issue is that the "hypocrite" argument becomes an equally valid premise for either legalizing both or banning both. Therefore, it really doesn't get you anywhere.
Sure why not. But the addictiveness of tobacco versus weed is like comparing the size of aircraft carriers to post-it notes.
That's not so much an argument for banning drugs; it's more of an argument for healthcare reform.
One example does not prove the majority. You're using an emotionally-charged argument that's little more than a post hoc.
bushidomosquito
New member
Everyone who thinks drugs should be illegal because of the human toll is using the same argument that anti-gunners use and they expect it to work. Why don't you go take a look at GSW victims in the ER and see if it makes you feel like joining the Brady campain. There are no valid points coming from any of you pro drug war folks, just the same whinny feel good crap that we hear every day regarding the war on RKBA and we don't fall for it. Just who's mind to you expect to change?
See how well the War or Drugs is working?
Yep, let's bring in the guberment when parenting fails miserably. I'm not advocating giving drugs to children. I'm advocating legalizing (and regulating, duh!) to remove the black market.
If my 18 year old son wants to smoke pot recreationally, that's his call. He's an adult. Oh, wait, CURRENTLY if he wants to he will, too.
Really? Exercising my 2nd Amendment right by going to the shooting range on a regular basis has far more benign repercussions and consequences than smoking a joint or shooting heroin on a regular basis. How can a legal marijuana joint protect me from a home invader or murderer? Or do you still think those two arguments are the same?
Creature, you need to understand that these horrible things that you describe are happening WHILE these drugs are illegal. It is obvious (I hope) that what is being done currently is not working. While legalization won't cure all ills, it will eliminate, or lessen, some of them. We can then focus on the remaining issues, with all the money we will save from not having to fight this very unwinnable war. If we chose to spend it that way, of course.
I'll throw in my 2 for what it's worth. It is very obvious the war on drugs is not working. Large sums of money are flowing out of this country without taxes being paid on it. People are getting gunned down in our city streets because of drugs. I think we should legalize them. Issue all those who want to buy drugs a card they must present when purchasing. On all cards list the numbers of treatment centers. We can collect taxes on the products as well as target drug users for rehab. It would save billions in law enforcement costs. The temptation for some would disappear. It would create new cash crops and a new industry. The only way to win the war is one on one, parent to child.
Northern Sod Breaker
New member
Ever hear of Trans Fat?
It's a lesser known fact that a ice cream "Sundae" came about becuase during prohibtion many people found that pop was a subsitute for alcohol. In doing so the (former) alcohol drinker assumed a similar behavior in the soda fountian of the day. When the "protect from ourselves" crowd saw this they demanded that pop be restricted. The result was that some twons passed laws restricted the sale of pop on Sunday. The soda fountians needed to saty open so they took Ice cream and topped it with what ever nuts chocolate etc they could find. Here's the point in this story. Once you start banning things where does it end? And to that end drugs are no different then firearms.
As irony would have it a drug dog quite recently busted a car with 38 LBS of pot in town. So not only am I argueing it here I also am doing so in person.
I still want to know how some of you can turn such a blind eye to alcohol yet see pot as bad. I have to wonder how much govt propaganda has played into this way of thinking. I also still want to know why the lessons of Prohibition have flown right over the heads of so many. It seems obvious but that just me.
Actually, your question has been asked many times, including right here on this forum. There are several answers.
1. With Marinol, you have to hand a pill and a glass of water to a nauseated person and say, "Here, swallow this and keep it down." The inherent problem should be obvious.
2. Marinol is many times more expensive than black market cannabis per dose.
3. You don't have to inhale marijuana smoke. Look into marijuana vaporizers.
4. The existence of Marinol (like the existence of the federally-supplied cannabis program) calls into question the Schedule 1 status of cannabis. Marinol is approved, and contains the active ingredient in cannabis. Schedule 1 drugs have no known medical applications. How can the same active ingredient be an approved drug and also have no known medical applications?