Time for a rethink? (drug war)

Now people are bringing up sugar as a reason to legalize drugs? Come on people, you are reaching for any excuse here.
 
I'll just make this comment before bowing out of this thread:
The idea that not banning something is tantamount to approval is a liberal concept and a false choice fallacy.
The government can also simply choose to not interfere in a matter where it has no authority without it's action being interpreted as tacit approval or disapproval.
Anyone here support the idea of the Democrats having some sort of moral imperative to ban everything that they disapprove of?

Rhetorical question. I'll not be participating further in this thread.
 
Why should we be made to believe that if drugs were made legal similar laws would not exist.
Click to expand...
Here in California, it's already covered:
"Anyone who drives while using drugs, either legal or illegal, can be arrested for driving under the influence of drugs (DUID). In California, DUID is prosecuted in much the same manner as DUI arrests involving alcohol."
http://www.californiaduihelp.com/dui_drugs/california_dui_drug_case.asp

Patient to doctor: "Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I do this"
Doctor's logical reply: "Well, don't do that."
 
Okay let's just continue the failed expierement.


I challange anyone to show me where taking an illegal drug affects bystanders/family any more then a legal one such as alcohol or tobacco. Ever hear of second hand smoke? explain to me how this is better the say second hand pot smoke. or explain to me how getting "high" is worse then getting drunk off one's whatever.

I think there's a lot of govt propaganda out there and sadly some people believe it. I'm far from being a bleeding heart liberal. But I am smart enough to know trying the same expeirement over and over will never create a different result. I'm also smart enough to know that people will always seek a way to get high, regardless of how many laws we pass against it. Drugs hurt only those who take them. The war on drugs however, hurts everyone. And if push came to shove I'd rather live next to a drug user then a rapist out on parole because they needed the cell for a drug user.
 
Don't forget that we need to outlaw spray paint and glue.

and yes, sugar. Every reason for outlawing drugs boils down to the fact that they are mind altering, harmful, and addictive. Sugar fits that description. So do all of the other drugs I mentioned.
 
Legalizing a illegal drug IS giving approval to its use; it is condoneing it and saying "this is acceptible in our society". Society IS able to set limits to what is allowable behavior in the interest of general order. If you want to call that a liberal attitude, go for it.

As for Northern Sods comments: how can you compare your average guy who has a beer with dinner with a crackhead? Ever see how THAT impacts the family as well as the addict?
 
Society IS able to set limits to what is allowable behavior in the interest of general order.
Click to expand...
Ahhh, I see the problem. You are confusing society with government. Society can have its standards, government MUST have its limits.
 
Oh, and you pro-drug-illegalization people have failed to address the problems I have referred to that are created by drug illegalization, but have nothing at all to do with actual use of drugs.

Also, I want to thank you. This is the first one of these conversations (that I have participated in) where those that wish to see the end of prohibition have not been accused of just wanting to use them(drugs).
 
We sort of already have legalized hard drugs in the form of methadone clinics. Methadone is a strong opioid comparable to other illegal opiates. I've known people who have gone to the clinics. All someone has to do is go to the clinic, test positive for opiates and they can start getting methadone legally. The people I've known stay just as high on methadone as they did on illegal drugs. The only difference is they pay $12 a day instead of $100 and they're legal. So in that way it makes things a little easier on them and their families money-wise, and they hold jobs slightly better (still not well) because they don't spend all their time searching for more drugs. They're not getting better, they're not really getting worse, just kind of staying in the same condition they were. I've also had a friend die from illegally using methadone and another that is permanently mentally handicapped from overdosing on it. These people were drug users to start with, but methadone seems to be an awfully easy drug for people to overdose on and the clinics have made it more available. So it seems to be there are pros and cons to legalizing. I don't really take a side, I see benefits and drawbacks to both.
 
As for Northern Sods comments: how can you compare your average guy who has a beer with dinner with a crackhead? Ever see how THAT impacts the family as well as the addict?
Click to expand...

I have seen plenty of families damage by an "average" guy who likes beer. Of course beer is legal so when divorce happens then it was in capibility or some other lame excuse. but when the drug was illegal well then it's the drugs fault. And JMHO but anyone who has a beer with supper as quoted above needs help from AA.

So Joe likes to get drunk off his butt on alcohol and Jerry like to get stoned of his butt on cocaine. You say there's difference? Sorry but I'm not seeing it. How can you say one drug is bad while turning a blind eye to another?
 
tc556guy said:
As for Northern Sods comments: how can you compare your average guy who has a beer with dinner with a crackhead? Ever see how THAT impacts the family as well as the addict?
Click to expand...

That's a sneaky comparison. You're comparing a moderate use of one drug - alcohol, to an extreme abuse of another one -crack cocaine. That's misleading and you know it. Why not compare the guy having a beer with dinner to the guy smoking a bone just before or after? Or if you really want to stick with the crackhead, then you have to use the alcoholic, whos family is being torn apart just as badly. Ever see how THAT impacts the addict? Death from liver failure is not pretty.

Hundreds of thousands of people die from tobacco-smoke related illnesses, and nicotine is one of THE most addictive substances out there. Ask any smoker who's tried to quit. Especially compare that to anyone who's smoked a little weed and stopped, and ask them which one was more or less effortless, and which one still bugs them to this day?
 
Or you could compare a guy who drinks a beer or two after work with a guy who smokes a joint after work. Chances are everybody knows people who do both, whether they know it or not. That being said, I don't smoke pot, but I know a lot of people that do. Some do it all the time and are noticeably affected by it. Some do it occasionally and remain pretty much unaffected. Same thing goes for alcohol.

"and BTW, if kids are paying $80 for oxy, they are crazy."
Theres places in WV where people are paying $120 each for oxy's. Seriously.
 
Regardless of what side of the fence you are on in this argument, there is one thing that cannot be argued. The war on drugs, as some like to call it, has not stopped the availability of illegal drugs.

A definition of insanity is doing the same thing "today" that you did "yesterday", but expecting different results.

The so-called drug war is "insanity".
 
It's only insanity to the people who think that the government is continuing this war on drugs with good intentions. The the people who buy into the tripe, it's sane to try to keep drugs out of kids hands..god forbid. And to people like me, its sane to think that making money is sane, and theres a LOT of people making a LOT of money off of this little war, so it makes sense why the gov't continues it. If tobacco hadn't been around for hundreds of years now, and a staple crop of early America, it would be just as illegal as cocaine. Speaking of which, last I heard, cocaine had an approximatley 17,000% profit margin for the big boys down south. Seventeen-thousand percent. Get your head around that and the answer to why drugs will always be around when illegal will smack you right in the nose.
 
Well, I don't think the government expects to win this drug war. I have noticed that these "wars" that the gov't claims we are in seem to go on without end.
 
That's a sneaky comparison. You're comparing a moderate use of one drug - alcohol, to an extreme abuse of another one -crack cocaine. That's misleading and you know it. Why not compare the guy having a beer with dinner to the guy smoking a bone just before or after?
Click to expand...

How many successful casual users of crack do you know? I don't know many, and aside from that, there is no redeeming value to crack cocaine. No reason for it to be legalized whatsoever. On the other hand, alcohol is used safely by millions of people. No sneakiness at all.
 
On the other hand, alcohol is used safely by millions of people.
Click to expand...

Except for the ones killing others on the road, and the few that drink themselves to death before their stomachs can be pumped, of course.
 
Except for the ones killing others on the road, and the few that drink themselves to death before their stomachs can be pumped, of course.
Click to expand...

I believe that the DWI situation is under-prosecuted. You will never completely get rid of the addicts and drunks, even if you completely legalize everything. I still stand by my belief that it sends the wrong mesage about our values as a society to legalize these drugs. I do not want my kids to grow up in a society where anyone can walk into the corner store and buy cocaine, LSD, etc. We might just as well flush the country down the toilet if we ever get to that stage.
 
I disagree... if you want to teach your kids something of value, teach them how to support legislation that actually accomplishes goals and solves problems instead of wasting tax payer money. Billions of our tax dollars go down the drain so that we can fight a so-called drug war that never ends and which the drug supply never ends.... that is plain stupid.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top