Those Who Have a Concealed Weapons Permit, Please Read.....

To me, this is America. It's a free country, where everything is available all the time. If I want cereal at 2:00 .am. and I'm out of milk, then by damn I'm going to go get milk from the local 7-11. With gun or without, I have a right to step outside my door and do business with anyone I want to.
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When I said to be situationally aware ... if I drive up to the 7-11 and I see a bunch of MS-13 guys (or whatever) I'm not going to go in, armed or not. If I know a particular 7-11 is the hangout of such types then of course I'll drive a few blocks further (though I'd do what I could to get them out of there) and go to another.
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An example of why it's not as free a country as you think. If it were truly a free country you wouldn't worry about a couple of thugs hanging out in front of the 7-11 you want to buy milk from.

I agree with being situationally aware, that applies anywhere you happen to be. Personally I like situational awareness as well as my CCW of choice. It ain't no death ray, but it gives me an additional tool in my toolbox. A nail is no good without a hammer.
 
Additional Tool... A great way to put it.

I've never had to pull my firearm. I've had my hand on the grip once, but the situation changed.
 
I am also torn between the "I don't want to allow the badguys to win by forcing me to alter my way of living" and "putting myself in harms way to prove I am free". The way I see it, they have already forced me to alter my way of life. I have to carry a firearm and train withit. So if I want Milk at 3am I get it. I just go to a safer store.


Petemo,
It may hurt your pride
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Amen. You use pride as a guage and eventually you will go to jail.
 
in liberal Hawaii, you get a BG pulling a gun on you, he shoots you, he takes your wallet, he gets away clean.

You draw your gun? You get sued for public endangerment and brandishing a deadly weapon, and CCW is illegal too.

You shoot a home intruder? You get sued for improper use of deadly force (yes, this has happened before here--- a farmer shot a home intruder in the countryside and the BG sued him!)

A BG approaches you with a knife, and you are unarmed. You call him a pu$$y because he's, well, a BG with a knife. He turns around and sues you for sexual harrassment.
 
Interesting to see a state with worse laws than Illinois. No duty to retreat here, and you can defend yourself in your own home or business with a firearm.
I gather that Hawaii "may issue" is a joke, since the number issued can be counted on one hand.
 
In case you're still reading this, Liccw -- I'm really not trying to debate with you. But the way you put in your opinions as common sense bothers me. Only you know what to do to stay safe; I'm just saying that the safety we require is relative.

Garand Illusion: I'm not telling you to cower in your house. Believe it our not there is a middle ground which lies between reckless bravado and cowardice. Its called prudence.
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Very true. Everyone knows this. But one man's "prudence" is another man's "cowardice." Although it was before my time, I know of my people too "prudent" to go to Vietnam, so they moved to Canada instead.

I have seen way to many tough guys, gangsters, and pyschos end up dead or in jail with the "I'd rather get beat down once" attitude. Funny, when I was in school and the teacher told us to look around and that in 10 years many of us would be dead or in jail. I laughed. Yet 90% of the "tough guys" twenty years later are dead or in jail.
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The one's who went to jail were criminals. I'm not talking to criminals here. As to how the other tough guys died ... those things just happened. I'll bet the majority of them died doing something risky but fun (motorcycle riding) or stupid (driving drunk) or just like random, the same as the non-tough guys.


I am sure that we are mixing signals here, that you don't mean what you are saying the way I am taking it. Don't tell your daughter its OK to go wherever she wants as long as she's armed. That's a very bad idea.
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No ... it's not. I want my daughter to have the best possible mix of courage and common sense and "prudence" possible, but I never want her to be a prisoner of fear. Stay out of a few select areas, and this country overall is pretty safe.


I had a friend who decided to take a walk one night to get a snack at the quick-mart in town. While walking through a parking lot (and oh, by the way, he was a Marine at the time--not a sheep by definition) ... Seeing him, a group of black gang bangers mistook him for a hispanic. ... he was stabbed in the back, slashed cross the face, and shot at. ... he has an evil looking scar across his cheek to remember his walk that night. Yes they caught the guys, well, some of them. Not that he cared. He'd rather not be disfigured.
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So one night your friend went out and was attacked. I guess he could have stayed home with the doors locked and avoided that, but only ONE night was he attacked. How many hundreds of nights would he have to NOT go out and stay home with the doors locked to avoid that? And then even being at home, he could have been the victim of some "wilding" gang members who took him unawares in his own bed.

I'm not against prudence, but we Americans like to think of our country as "land of the free, home of the brave." We can't be free if we're too afraid to leave our homes after dark, and we damned sure aren't brave.

BG's don't like places with lots of decent people who will actually call the police and witness against them. Lots of decent people are a very bad thing for them. So they avoid those places.

So ... the more decent people out there at any given time, the safer it is for all and the less secure the BG's free.

Over the last 2 centuries, several million young American's have died to create and protect our freedoms. The did unprudent things, like charge ashore at Iwo Jima, or climb out of the trenches in Flander's Field, or even go to Iraq. Unprudent and more dangerous than about any neighborhood in America all.

We owe it to those people and live free. And yes ... you might get unlucky and get hurt. But how much of life will you miss if you base your existence on trying not to get hurt?

So I do have a daughter ... and while she's still very young, I never want her to fear to experience life. I hope she doesn't get hurt ... but if she does, I also know she'll be strong enough to deal with it.
 
From the CCW class I took -- don't pull your weapon unless you intend to fire.
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I would correct that by saying - 'don't pull your weapon unless you are PREPARED to fire'. To imply, or even state, that you can only draw if you are going to shoot is, IMO, reckless. As most of the posts on this thread have indicated, the mere act of drawing one's weapon and being sighted by the BG is usually enough to avert a potential violent encounter. If that's the case then that's all that is required - reholster, regroup, and move on.

(Although I would recommend following up by immediately filing a report with the local law-enforcement agency to document the threat)
 
FILE A REPORT

I'll agree with that one, if only to get a description of the person who accosted you out to the officers on duty. Odds are that the person who caused you to draw your pistol is not going to turn from crime IMMEDIATELY, and has never done it before. Letting them know is a public service.

Plus you could avoid a ridiculous "brandishing" accusation.
 
FireBreather:
if I draw it I'm going to fire it.
If you don't, where was your "Fear"?
In 40 years drew twice, fired twice.
not including combat.

AFS
 
FireBreather:
if I draw it I'm going to fire it.
If you don't, where was your "Fear"?
In 40 years drew twice, fired twice.
not including combat.
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Your fear/concern is what causes you to draw in the first place. What if the threat ends by the time you come to full presentation? The BG drops his knife and raises his arms when he saw you go for your gun, or he turns and walks away from you as he is unarmed and was intending to out-muscle you for your wallet/car/whatever, or you hear glass breaking in your empty house late at night and, with gun drawn as you come around the corner from your bedroom - you find it's your son/daughter/wife that returned unexpectedly and they just dropped a glass, or you're in a hotel and although you thought you had locked the deadbolt - the hotel's maintenance guy mistakenly enters your room to fix a light on his work order and due to your surprise you've drawn and faced what you think is a room-invasion, or you're in a parking garage late at night, alone, and suddenly two guys appear out of 'nowhere' from in front and behind you and ask you, forcefully, for some money - feeling surrounded you draw your gun and again, seeing your draw, they turn and run, or or or.....???

Your reasoning, although it seems to have worked out thus far, is leading you to an eventual path of being either dead or in prison. If you only draw when you KNOW you're going to shoot, you've lost a critical edge in response time -while you're waiting to fully assess a threat and deciding whether or not to shoot BEFORE you draw - I've got my gun out and either at low ready or pointed at the threat, ready to respond in case I MUST. OR, as the above scenarios show, you've drawn on what is now an ended, or empty threat, if you will, - and the witnesses will say that "I saw the two guys in the sweatshirts kind of surround the AirForce guy but as soon as he reached behind his hip the two guys ran, then the AF guy just shot the one in the red sweatshirt - in the back!". Or, "yeah, that sweatshirt guy had a knife but he dropped it when the AF guy reached behind his back and then the AF guy just shot him - the sweatshirt guy even had his arms up".

It all comes down to the progression of force vs threat level - just because you determined a threat once existed does not give you a free-shoot card 5 seconds later, it must be immediate. If the threat has ended, so does your force.
 
I would not necessarily shoot if I did draw, but I would not draw unless I intended to fire. In other words, If the situation doesn't warrant firing the gun in the first place don't pull it out. Once I do draw the gun, it's up to the BG. If he stays his course, he will most likely die. But I would more than welcome his retreat. I believe this was more along the lines of what AirForceShooter meant? Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I thought.
 
in both cases the BG never stopped they're threats or actions .
Bigfats understands my position.
I draw I fire.
No trainer will tell you different.
I never threaten or warn. None of that "if you don't stop I'll shoot you I'm armed"
My position will lead me to being dead or prision??
That I certainly don't get.

AFS
 
"What if the threat ends by the time you come to full presentation? "

Pretty damn fast to have the situation evaporate in about 1.5 seconds.
 
What if the threat ends by the time you come to full presentation?
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Then you need to practice your draw.

Previous posters summed it up well - if you make the decision to draw, you should have already made the decision to fire.

But still, 98% of firearm self-defense incidents end without any shots fired, I seem to recall reading somewhere.
 
There seems to be a reluctance being displayed that is "I don't want to shoot".
The senario keeps changing to finding a way not to shoot.
What if: the BG throws his hands up, what if he stops, what if he drops dead of a heart attack.
If you're CCWing and presented with a shooting senario, once you draw there's no going back. You have less than a second to deceide. That's not much. You're protecting your life, of your spouses or your kids. Think I give a hoot about the BG?
That "what if" just might get you killed or injured.
Sorry if I offended but it's my opinion and experience.

AFS:eek:
 
I agree with Air Force Shooter.
Buy the time the weapon is out, the shooting will occur as a trained response.

As non police in a non-combat situation, you are likely going to have to make a very fast decision and hesitation at that point will be very dangerous.
If you are not in enough danger to have already decided deadly force is required, you do not have any reason to draw in the first place.

Unlike the police who may threaten to fire, for a CCW person the crime is called ‘brandishing’. You displayed a weapon with the intent of causing fear.
The police have detailed rules governing when they can draw. Having some idea of them is a good idea.

Once you have made the decision that deadly force will be required for the problem at hand, it should be employed as quickly as possible.
You do not want to get into a wrestling match with someone with a loaded weapon in your hands (or even on your body).

When I draw a gun from a holster I am wearing, it requires thought to not immediately flip the safety off.
 
I agreee whole-heartedly AirForceShooter. After the gun is drawn or during the draw is no time to be thinking about what to do about the guy (or girl), I will have already decided that.
 
LEO gets some relief since you can draw and not be immediatley charged with brandishing. You get to fill out a report.
Any non LEO who display a gun in a threatening manner can be charged with brandishing in most jurisdiction. All you need is a PITA anti-gun DA who wants to make mileage on your hide.
It forces you to wait until the situation is relaly sh*t before drawing, and by then there will be no question as to the outcome.
 
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