This poor woman is being demonized for shooting a lion legally

[leadcounsel]

The instinct to hunt and kill is hard wired in humans

I disagree. Humans are hard wired to breath. Eat. Defecate. Sleep. Mate. Perhaps some other things. Killing isn't one of them. Most humans don't enjoy killing and actually are repelled by it. Most people would not want to watch something killed, nor would they want to do it themselves.

I'm in that crowd. I kill only when absolutely necessary and I take no pleasure in it. I eat everything on my plate that was killed because I realize the sacrifice that an animal made, even that last shrimp or bite of steak, because I know that something died to provide me with food.

 

[Sarge]

Oh well... I once got told I was going straight to Hell (do not pass GO, do NOT collect two hunnerd dollars) for killing off a bunch of feral cats that had infested the farm.

 

[Husqvarna]

Yep, I believe fully in freedoms that don't infringe on my life, liberty, and happiness.

Yet when 'overharvesting' or 'sport hunting' or whatnot eliminate Lions, Tigers, Apes, Whales, etc etc etc so that I and my kids and future generations cannot enjoy them, then that is a problem.

overharvesting and sport hunting isn't the same thing, might have been in the long gone past but not nowadays. we also want our kids and grandkids to be able to enjoy them aka hunt them

Why not just hunt them, take a few nice pictures or videos, and leave it for another person to do likewise? Seems equally rewarding, and a lot more holistic.

Becuase people aren't paying the money to just take pictures, I have done it and enjoyed it but still dream of hunting in africa

The beauty about hunting is that it is a renawble source

Here are 13 examples of probably hundred of creatures I will never be able to see or enjoy due to the jerks of previous generations that selfishly killed for sport.

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/ani...ssenger-pigeon

I'll also add that I will probably never see a lot of animals that have seriously depleted numbers, like wolves, for the same reasons.

wolves aren't endangered and they hurt the liberty of people in the countryside severly.

pretty easy to see if you are out there in the woods. but as always the people most anti are city dwellers... amirite?

they were hunted to near depletion for a reason, today they can only survive in big untouched areas without people

 

[Husqvarna]

Oh well... I once got told I was going straight to Hell (do not pass GO, do NOT collect two hunnerd dollars) for killing off a bunch of feral cats that had infested the farm

people doesn't seem to get how much feral cats affect the enviroment.

shows poor animal husbandry to, letting your cats roam free, breed free and **** on my lawn! I have to clean my sons sandbox before he gets to play there

since I borrowed a mates german jagdterrier it has gotten better

 

[shortwave]

Oh well... I once got told I was going straight to Hell (do not pass GO, do NOT collect two hunnerd dollars) for killing off a bunch of feral cats that had infested the farm

Well Sarge,

If killin feral cats is gonna send you to hell, I'll probably be sittin right next to ya.

Neither Feral cats nor dogs last too long around these parts.

FWIW...I don't eat em after I kill em either...sooo does that make me liken to a murder or serial killer?

Yep, I believe fully in freedoms that don't infringe on my life, liberty, and happiness.

leadcounsel

Can you please explain how Bachman's actions in Africa infringed on your life, liberty and happiness here in the US?

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Humans are hard wired to breath. Eat. Defecate. Sleep. Mate. Perhaps some other things. Killing isn't one of them. Most humans don't enjoy killing and actually are repelled by it. Most people would not want to watch something killed, nor would they want to do it themselves.

I'm in that crowd. I kill only when absolutely necessary and I take no pleasure in it. I eat everything on my plate that was killed because I realize the sacrifice that an animal made, even that last shrimp or bite of steak, because I know that something died to provide me with food.

"Most humans" have no such revulsion because, by far and away, "most humans" weren't raised by Walt Disney, trained to believe that animals are furry people with families and emotions. "Most humans" live in the real world, only the minuscule percentage in America and parts of other westernized nations think like Walt Disney.

The animals you eat didn't "make a sacrifice". A sacrifice would be an act of free will. It died because some human killed it, by the choice of the human.

You say humans are hard-wired "to eat". What, pray tell, do you suppose they are hard-wired to eat? It ain't lettuce and tomatoes. We eat meat. Meat comes from animals. Animals die by our hands to get that meat. We are hard-wired to kill our food.

By your logic, you should be thankful to the human who killed your food for you, since they are debasing themselves to complete a task FOR YOU that you won't complete for yourself, yet you'll happily partake of the results.

It's a lot like The Matrix, actually. Insulated from the real world and living happily in denial to what's really going on.

 

[eastbank]

leadcounsel, i have hunted in several other countries including africa and i,m going to do it again next year,if i remember right the guilds,camp workers and alot of others were all glad to have a job that paided way over the local going rate. all laws were obeyed and i never have seen as many animals,hundreds every day. with out hunting in that area of africa the animinals would be pouched out in quick order mostly with wire snares, not a good was to die. so if i see you in the bush taking pictures and a lion or other carrian eater decides to make you extinct, i may just let nature take its course. eastbank.

 

[Art Eatman]

The predatory instinct has not been bred out, not at all. That instinct is why we have politicians and CEOs of corporations--and dope dealers and gangbangers. It's from the same instinct as hunting, but in a different endeavor.

From a morality standpoint, I prefer hunters.

 

[Dragline45]

The predatory instinct has not been bred out, not at all. That instinct is why we have politicians and CEOs of corporations--and dope dealers and gangbangers. It's from the same instinct as hunting, but in a different endeavor.

What you just described is greed, and their actions are fueled by greed, not a predatory instinct to kill. You cannot even compare the two. Go tell any psychiatrist that you have a human instinct to kill and are hard wired to do so and see what they tell you. You'll be locked up in the looney bin. As a whole the human race are not animals. The ones that are cannot function in a civilized society and usually end up in jail or the psych ward.

 

[Pond James Pond]

Humans have clearly moved on from a purely animal psyche, contrary to what some have suggested. Although some of our tendencies can be traced back to the pack mentality of our evolutionary predecessors to say that we are somehow still governed by those instincts is inaccurate. Influenced at times, yes. Compelled at others, sure, but not wholly governed.

Our society would be completely unsustainable if we still succumbed to our instincts’ every whim…. Take the concept of monogamy: as far as I’m aware it is unheard of in mammalian species; certainly amongst our closest relatives. Were I still animal, I should be running around, fathering wherever possible and not hanging around to find out what my offspring all look like… Although this does happen, we tend to frown on it, rather than condone it. Not very mammalian at all…

As for CEOs and politicians, I expect that to be traced back to the mammalian need to acquire alpha male status. This has to do with the “s” word, not killing.

On the point of killing: Animals, as most will have noticed, do not have guns, hellfire missiles, or A-bombs.
When they kill, it is up close and personal. It is a risk as the other party, be they prey or rival, will have their own weapons to deploy. Therefore animals will not kill unless fulfilling a need, and that need outweighs the risks.
This need can be and usually is, in the case of predators, for food. This can also include killing to protect one’s territory. Killing can also be part of a bonding activity in some social animal groups as well as a means of honing life skills needed in adulthood.

Sometimes it arises because something happens that stimulates that behavioural pathway, such a thrashing swimmer will trigger the hunt reflex in a Great White. It is not that the Great White suddenly fancies killing a human. The human gave the wrong signals at the wrong time.

By contrast, killing is not, as some seem to suggest, some kind of funtime hobby.

It seems to me that killing for pure recreation is something that has evolved from Mankind, not been retained from primitive ancestors.

 

[Art Eatman]

Sorry, Dragline, but there is a fair body of literature which substantiates what I wrote. The instinct is of the hunt, and nowadays the equivalent of the kill is that of status via politics or money or other sources of power.

Alpha male and all that.

 

[Jo6pak]

Modern business and sports is based on the natural predatory instinct of homo sapiens.
One of the reasons we say, "he made a killing in the stock market" ,or, "hunting down new customers."

Some people simply satiate that inborn wiring more literally (and naturally?) than others.

Why do you think it is so easy to focus on actual hunting? Why is it relaxing? Why is it that we can get in "the zone" and think of nothing else while we are out in the wild?
Because it is what our brains and bodies are really designed for. It is primal.
No apologies needed.

It seems to me that killing for pure recreation is something that has evolved from Mankind, not been retained from primitive ancestors.

Wolf packs, wild and tame felines have been shown to hunt and kill for sport

 

[shortwave]

Our society would be completely unsustainable if we still succumbed to our instincts’ every whim…. Take the concept of monogamy: as far as I’m aware it is unheard of in mammalian species; certainly amongst our closest relatives. Were I still animal, I should be running around, fathering wherever possible and not hanging around to find out what my offspring all look like… Although this does happen, we tend to frown on it, rather than condone it. Not very mammalian at all…

James Pond

You may want to research the above statement as you will find that there are many other mammals/animals(esp. birds) other then the Homo sapien species (aka, primates of the Hominidae family) that mate for life.

www.ehow.co.uk/list_6799656_list-herbivorous...mammals.html

FWIW, some research also claims that there are a few species such as the marmoset and tamarin monkeys that practice monogamy way better then humans.

 

[Dragline45]

Sorry, Dragline, but there is a fair body of literature which substantiates what I wrote. The instinct is of the hunt, and nowadays the equivalent of the kill is that of status via politics or money or other sources of power.

Alpha male and all that.

No disagreements with you there, in fact I whole heartedly agree with you. I took your comment the wrong way and was relating it to the previous comments of human beings being hard wired and having a human instinct that drives them to physically kill. But I still stand by what I said before, and I do not believe that human beings as a whole are still hard wired with the instinct to kill, that was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Pond James Pond]

Wolf packs, wild and tame felines have been shown to hunt and kill for sport

Got a source for that?

You sure that it is "sport" and not pack bonding or skills practice in the safety of the group?

Calories are precious in nature. They are not typically wasted on activities that don't serve a higher purpose.

Alpha male and all that.

Seems you are bundling hunt behaviour with alpha male acquisitiion behaviour. The alpha male status is not motivated with a desire to kill. It is the desire to mate. Alpha status gives th bearer rights to the females and first dibs on the main course. To maintain that right the bearer may need to kill rivals and enemies: part of the risks the privilege carries.

 

[Husqvarna]

Calories are precious in nature. They are not typically wasted on activities that don't serve a higher purpose.

I am not wasting calories on hunting it is for a greater purpose, it keeps me healthy (being outdoors, the healthy meat etc) and sane even zen

 

[eastbank]

i hunt,you don,t. i make no excues for it. stay home if you want,i prefer to hunt and fish . and i know the dollars i spent on them are going to save the species for future hunters and fishermen along with the hikers,photo takers, golly gee the hiker and photo groups had a guild with a rifle. the photo takers and hikers i have seen on my hunting trips don,t pump near the money into the locals that hunters do. the picture takers ride around in a land rover and take their pictures in complete safety. when you book a hunt the list of local people and local businesses that benifit from it are far greater than if you book a photo-hiking trip. don,t call me untill the middle of dec. as i will be hunting. eastbank.

 

[MJN77]

Dolphins. Most people consider them one of the most intelligent critters on the planet. They also kill for no reason.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...ent_predators_that_kill_their_own_babies.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3323070/Killer-dolphins-baffle-marine-experts.html

http://animal.discovery.com/mammals/bottle-nosed-dolphin-behavior-info.htm

 

[Pilot]

My cats are strictly indoor cats, are not allowed to roam the neighborhood, and are well fed. I do let them out on my deck which is elevated, so they will not jump off, as it is just too high up. Birds occasionally land on the deck and sometimes one of the cats will grab one, and kill it. I have seen them essentially use the dead bird, as a cat toy. They don't eat them, but I usually take the dead bird away from them pretty quickly.

I have friends with cats, and once in a great while one of their cats will catch a mouse, and when done playing with it will drop the mouse in their bed, when they're in it as a "present". Typically the mouse is decapitated. That usually doesn't end well.

 

[Husqvarna]

dolphins rape other dolphin species to