BigD_in_FL
Moderator
Great video in that link as well. Those three tribesman got some HUGE cajones to do what they did
This poor woman is being demonized for shooting a lion legally
- Thread starter coldbeer
- Start date
- Status
gaseousclay
New member
I don't know how much reliance there is to feed families but the family/friends I know hunt purely for the meat. Do they need it? No. But they're not out shooting deer, pheasant or whatever purely for the sake of killing something
If hunting isn't necessary for survival, then it's for sport. If you don't need the meat to live, what is the purpose of the hunt? You can buy venison.
http://www.shafferfarms.com/
I love hunting and I'm not ashamed to say it.
Lets see, $10 worth of gasoline and a day's labor to eat a squirrel? I can hardly say I hunt for survival.
I do not shoot it so that I can eat it. I eat it, because I have shot it.
And yes, I will pass up that tasty tender doe meat for tough and chewy meat with horns on it if there is a choice.
I too love hunting and I'm not ashamed to say it.
I do not shoot it so that I can eat it. I eat it, because I have shot it.
And yes, I will pass up that tasty tender doe meat for tough and chewy meat with horns on it if there is a choice.
I too love hunting and I'm not ashamed to say it.
Armed_Chicagoan
New member
That article isn't even relevant to the issue at hand. There are no wild lions in the area where Bachman shot her lion. There are no lions for the local people to protect. This wasn't a wild lion, it was a captive lion confined to a ranch by fencing and raised to maturity by the owners of the ranch. It didn't hunt prey to survive, indeed the area it was confined to is far too small to support an alpha predator such as a lion. It was fed by humans and brought to maturity for slaughter much as domestic cattle are. The difference is you don't see slaughterhouse workers doing a Great White Hunter pose with the cow they just slaughtered, because that would just be silly. And it's just as silly for Bachman to do the same.Art Eatman said:
I'm not judging her morality or her ethics, I'm ridiculing her for attempting to pass off shooting a captive lion raised on a ranch as some great accomplishment on par with that of Col. Patterson.
Is it possible that those of us that don't actually live over in Africa and don't actually know all the negatives nor positives that these kind of hunts provide the African people are casting opinions from our cozy homes with well stocked refrigerators? In retrospect, maybe the 'Apples and Oranges' saying can be said when comparing where we live and how we survive compared to living in Africa.
I may not know a lot about Africa but you can bet that if I had to rely on something much worse then aiding in shooting a lion to feed my family...bye, bye lion. My family would not go hungry.
Course, here in the states, for now, I have the luxury of running into Kroger's when the shelves get empty. Might not be that way in Africa.
Right here in the states, we as hunters cast stones at the way hunters out West hunt and the hunters out West cast stones at the way Easterners hunt.
Proven right here on TFL. Just read some of the past threads.
Truth be told, these stone throwers have never hunted to far from their own backyard.
Proof of that is by some of the comments they make, (I.E. stand hunting isn't hunting, long range hunting isn't a challenge and is just killing, unless you're stalking you're not hunting) the list goes on and on).
What it really boils down to is, "I grew up hunting a certain way and if the rest of the world doesn't hunt the way I do then they are not hunters but rather just 'killers' that have no respect for wildlife/nature".
Guess my point is that unless we have been to Africa and know ALL the facts, how can we sit and pass judgment on something that is obviously legal in another country?
We really don't know what it takes to survive in that country cause we're not there.
By foreigner's passing judgment in this way on something that's legal in another country is no more then imposing our will or our way of life that we are accustomed to living that may not work or be best in another country.
ChasingWhitetail91
New member
While not being a trophy hunter myself, I still do not see an issue in hunting a stable species legally even if it's not going to be eaten.
Pond James Pond
New member
Really?!
Never heard that one before. (mind you plain hippies was a new one too)
What would it be in everyday language?
I could test the waters and will see if "bunny-guards" and "bambi-custodians" catches on here in Estonia...
Armed_Chicagoan
New member
@Husqvarna -
Again, it's not the morality or ethics I have issues with, it's the false pride of an accomplishment that one needs only money to achieve.
This isn't even remotely comparable to deer hunters and such, who not only hunt to put food on their tables (sure they could buy it, but an animal dies either way) but their actions also fulfill a necessary environmental niche - that of a top predator in areas where natural predators no longer exist or are too few to keep numbers of prey animals in check. And it's no simple feat to take a wary animal such as a deer, it takes a lot of preparation and skill and time. Many a deer hunter will get skunked this season, those who do get one have reason to be proud of their achievement.
Again, it's not the morality or ethics I have issues with, it's the false pride of an accomplishment that one needs only money to achieve.
This isn't even remotely comparable to deer hunters and such, who not only hunt to put food on their tables (sure they could buy it, but an animal dies either way) but their actions also fulfill a necessary environmental niche - that of a top predator in areas where natural predators no longer exist or are too few to keep numbers of prey animals in check. And it's no simple feat to take a wary animal such as a deer, it takes a lot of preparation and skill and time. Many a deer hunter will get skunked this season, those who do get one have reason to be proud of their achievement.
gaseousclay
New member
I'm not suggesting anyone should feel ashamed for hunting. I embrace hunting, despite having never gone. My father in-law gives me venison every year, usually in the form of venison beef sticks or venison bacon. I love it.
I think the reason why some are opposed to trophy hunting is because it's one of those taboo traditions that make people cringe. there are certainly hunters that trophy hunt and donate the meat from their kill to whomever, but there are those that don't. I guess I don't think flying to a foreign country to kill an exotic animal is my idea of hunting, especially when their habitats and populations are shrinking. It seems like we tend to brush off the moral implications of hunting a species like the lion because we don't live in Africa. It's like the wolf here in the US. I'm not opposed to wolf hunting per se, so long as their numbers are healthy and they're not upsetting the balance of the eco-system in which they live. I was talking to an old timer and he thinks the wolves in Minnesota are what's causing the moose populations to die out. So there's a balance that has to be struck. I'm wondering if a 5 or 10 yr moratorium should be placed on lion hunting until their numbers get a little bigger and healthier
leadcounsel
Moderator
To be clear, I'm against sport hunting, and hunting populations with low numbers like lions and elephants and whales.
Being unable to tame 'instinct' is hardly a reason. Lots of animal instinct is outlawed. Theft, rape, murder, etc.
As a commentary on the problems with modern society, it's all about entertainment and the ethno-centric and self-centered "ME" versus really what's good for the world and environment. Waste, consumerism, destruction of the environment, etc. How about all the squatters and people that poach and otherwise don't have permission? Those that take more than their max. Or shoot irresponsibly.
Anyone else here angry at our settlers for the wasteful slaughter of fields of Bison? That's how I feel.
Sport hunters may inadvertently 'conserve' through their hunter permit fees, but the carbon footprint of 'the hunt' probably does more harm than good.
I've gone round and round on this topic and neither side will sway because both are entrenched.
I just take a very dim view of people who kill for enjoyment.... sorta like people who fight cocks or dogs for enjoyment. It's just unacceptable behavior in a civilized modern educated society.
Being unable to tame 'instinct' is hardly a reason. Lots of animal instinct is outlawed. Theft, rape, murder, etc.
As a commentary on the problems with modern society, it's all about entertainment and the ethno-centric and self-centered "ME" versus really what's good for the world and environment. Waste, consumerism, destruction of the environment, etc. How about all the squatters and people that poach and otherwise don't have permission? Those that take more than their max. Or shoot irresponsibly.
Anyone else here angry at our settlers for the wasteful slaughter of fields of Bison? That's how I feel.
Sport hunters may inadvertently 'conserve' through their hunter permit fees, but the carbon footprint of 'the hunt' probably does more harm than good.
I've gone round and round on this topic and neither side will sway because both are entrenched.
I just take a very dim view of people who kill for enjoyment.... sorta like people who fight cocks or dogs for enjoyment. It's just unacceptable behavior in a civilized modern educated society.
Of course I don't know for sure, but I'd make a substantial bet that the preserve/ranch/population she took that lion from does NOT have a shrinking population. For reasons posted above.
If the lion population she got the animal from is healthy, does that not parallel the wolf reference you made?
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
leadcounsel said:
Then you are opposed to hunting in the modern world in virtually all of it's forms. Almost no one in western society hunts for any reason except that they enjoy it.
who are you to judge what someone feels pride in?
for a bunch of gun enthusiast I am surprised about how non allowing you guys are.
thought you were liberals (and the real meaning of liberal not the slur used in the US.) how about you are fee to do whatever as long as you don't hurt anybody else?
Melissa deserves to feel pride for her career.
it takes more than money to get up close with a lion like that, and so what if she feels happy, as a proper hunter she probably is glad that she got the animal quickly so it didn't have to suffer. I know I am
- Status