It is encouraging that they allowed you to cancel the order and credited back your money without a fight. I sent them an email tonight informing them that people are starting to worry and they really need to start shipping some guns. I really hope they are an OK company. I guess time will tell.
There's Some New 12 Gauge Howdah Pistols in Town!
- Thread starter arcticap
- Start date
TheAtomsFam
Inactive
Decided to share my most recent conversation with Tim at AGC. Make of it what you will, but my patience is running thin.This conversation was via e-mail.
ME
""""" So...... Here's the situation you're already aware of. Many have found AGC's products neat and worth the investment. After placing orders and paying, through multiple timeframes, there is a lot of folks chomping at the bit to at least see one owned personally by a purchaser.
If you can ship a pre or early production model to me, in my specified configuration.I can ease the worries of and reinforce the merit of patience to the internet forum gun community by-and-large. Thanks much Tim. """""""
TIM AGC
""""""Hi John
Thats unfortunate news, but we are not going to rush a product to market just to satisfy a few back orders.
First of all I understand your frustration, but please understand that since this is a new product we have experienced some production delays in ramping things up and have tried to provide updates on our progress. We have made considerable advances but still need time to complete orders.
Part of the concept of offering an introductory price with a $100 discount to our customers was the understanding that this was a pre-order situation (this means back order) and this was clearly indicated in our product description with a production time estimate of approximately 6 weeks, and yes we have exceeded that. But this was plainly and boldly explained.
We do not have a firm delivery date as of yet, we expect this to take at least a few more weeks. We do not want customers to feel ripped off or otherwise unhappy, we would prefer to cancel any outstanding pre-order to avoid that.
When we announced our intention to go ahead and tool up and produce the Diablo last November, we were criticized and called a scam since we only showed 3D renderings of the Diablo pistol at that time, now of course that we show pictures of the manufactured products those claims have disappeared. Next we were called an ATF trap, I guess people did not bother to read the few technical points that describe what the product is and is not.
Thank you for the suggestion and offer, yes I will ask to move around a few things to get a unit to you asap for review. I know folks are anxious to get their product and we are motivated as well. We do hope to get caught up on any outstanding orders within 2 months but that of course depends on the rate of new incoming orders, we are doing what we can.
Thank you
Tim """""""""
ME
""""" So...... Here's the situation you're already aware of. Many have found AGC's products neat and worth the investment. After placing orders and paying, through multiple timeframes, there is a lot of folks chomping at the bit to at least see one owned personally by a purchaser.
If you can ship a pre or early production model to me, in my specified configuration.I can ease the worries of and reinforce the merit of patience to the internet forum gun community by-and-large. Thanks much Tim. """""""
TIM AGC
""""""Hi John
Thats unfortunate news, but we are not going to rush a product to market just to satisfy a few back orders.
First of all I understand your frustration, but please understand that since this is a new product we have experienced some production delays in ramping things up and have tried to provide updates on our progress. We have made considerable advances but still need time to complete orders.
Part of the concept of offering an introductory price with a $100 discount to our customers was the understanding that this was a pre-order situation (this means back order) and this was clearly indicated in our product description with a production time estimate of approximately 6 weeks, and yes we have exceeded that. But this was plainly and boldly explained.
We do not have a firm delivery date as of yet, we expect this to take at least a few more weeks. We do not want customers to feel ripped off or otherwise unhappy, we would prefer to cancel any outstanding pre-order to avoid that.
When we announced our intention to go ahead and tool up and produce the Diablo last November, we were criticized and called a scam since we only showed 3D renderings of the Diablo pistol at that time, now of course that we show pictures of the manufactured products those claims have disappeared. Next we were called an ATF trap, I guess people did not bother to read the few technical points that describe what the product is and is not.
Thank you for the suggestion and offer, yes I will ask to move around a few things to get a unit to you asap for review. I know folks are anxious to get their product and we are motivated as well. We do hope to get caught up on any outstanding orders within 2 months but that of course depends on the rate of new incoming orders, we are doing what we can.
Thank you
Tim """""""""
TheAtomsFam
Inactive
Heres a fact that Tim from AGC thinks we/I do not know.Is that after a quick search and contacting folks on the internet. ALL ORDERS from AGC are back-orders. Every single person on the bushcraft forum, on the ML forum, on AR-15, and here on TFL, that has ordered and paid for one, has NOT RECEIVED one.Even orders from November of 2018.So no there is not one in existence in private hands.Unless some A-hole gave one to his kids or cousins before sending product to paying customers.
51cskipper
New member
These were NEVER advertised as "Pre-order" or "Back-order" products. If it says so now, then they changed their web page.
My money was refunded, but I may still have a talk with their County District Attorney's Fraud Division.
I received that same email almost word for word. I was told six weeks when I ordered. If after six weeks I don't have the gun, I'm going to cancel my order and request a refund. It's well to remember that charges on a credit card must be disputed within 60 days of the charge appearing on your statement. I'm not going to let it go outside that window.
51cskipper
New member
I see that their advertised address is :
855 Village Center Drive Suite 342
St.Paul, MN 55127-3002
However, if you look up their web page filing address, you get:
AMERICAN GUN CRAFT
31205 FALCON AVE
STACY
MN
55079
UNITED STATES
612.716.2597
Which is "Promotion Management Center" https://pmci.com
855 Village Center Drive Suite 342
St.Paul, MN 55127-3002
However, if you look up their web page filing address, you get:
AMERICAN GUN CRAFT
31205 FALCON AVE
STACY
MN
55079
UNITED STATES
612.716.2597
Which is "Promotion Management Center" https://pmci.com
2wheelwander
New member
I'm gonna need the snakeskin version, a waxed cotton full length duster, a Stetson, a mullet, and a pair of wrap around Oakleys.
Oh, and a full on leg rig to carry it in when I go shopping. Maybe a tooth pick.
I still want one.
Oh, and a full on leg rig to carry it in when I go shopping. Maybe a tooth pick.
I still want one.
Google Maps brings up what looks like a strip mall for that address....
TheAtomsFam
Inactive
Considering cancelling my Diablo that I ordered and paid for on Dec 10th 2018.But man, really, truly...... I'd rather have that neat muzzle loading, apocalypse piece sitting in my collection of WMD's.....
THESE BASTARDS
THESE BASTARDS
TheAtomsFam
Inactive
OKAY HERES THE REAL GOODS. TIM GOW AND AMERICAN GUNCRAFT ARE FABRICATED USING YOUR "PURCHASE" AS THEIR INVESTMENT CAPITAL. NONE OF IT WAS REAL, now SOME of it is. BUT HE DID IT OFF OUR BACKS AND ADVERTISING USING PHOTOS< THAT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM.
Business Description
AGC Companies is located in Saint Paul, Minnesota. This organization primarily operates in the Business Services, nec business / industry within the Business Services sector. This organization has been operating for approximately a year. AGC Companies is estimated to generate $27,976 in annual revenues, and employs approximately 1 people at this single location.
Business Description
AGC Companies is located in Saint Paul, Minnesota. This organization primarily operates in the Business Services, nec business / industry within the Business Services sector. This organization has been operating for approximately a year. AGC Companies is estimated to generate $27,976 in annual revenues, and employs approximately 1 people at this single location.
TheAtomsFam
Inactive
AGC is a Bust and a Bummer
Yep got my refund. I think they owe a lot of apologies, honesty and interest on the money recieved. When I take a bank loan they charge interest, as should AGC be charged for the $400 "loans" from us. instead of dishonestly scrounging for investment capital.
How many paid for orders have they got since November 2018
Class action anyone???
Yep got my refund. I think they owe a lot of apologies, honesty and interest on the money recieved. When I take a bank loan they charge interest, as should AGC be charged for the $400 "loans" from us. instead of dishonestly scrounging for investment capital.
How many paid for orders have they got since November 2018
Class action anyone???
51cskipper
New member
They probably don't have any assets to sue for.
Here's his County's District Attorney:
https://www.ramseycounty.us/your-government/leadership/county-attorneys-office
Here's their Fraud unit:
https://www.ramseycounty.us/your-go.../divisions-units/criminal-division/fraud-unit
Here's his County's District Attorney:
https://www.ramseycounty.us/your-government/leadership/county-attorneys-office
Here's their Fraud unit:
https://www.ramseycounty.us/your-go.../divisions-units/criminal-division/fraud-unit
Last edited:
Theoldredneck
Inactive
Still interested
Have watched this thread and others hoping to see or hear of someone that actually had one. Would buy at least a couple of their designs if they worked well. For prices advertised much cheaper than anything else on market. Would really like to see them become a reality.
Have watched this thread and others hoping to see or hear of someone that actually had one. Would buy at least a couple of their designs if they worked well. For prices advertised much cheaper than anything else on market. Would really like to see them become a reality.
Schlitz 45
New member
I sent Tim an email this Monday requesting a no BS update on their production status & received this reply the following day:
Yes it has taken much longer than we anticipated and I apologize for the delay, here is where we are at
The frames are in machining, then they need to go to mass polishing and finishing
All barrel assembly parts are in machining right now, then welding, then mass finishing, then finishing
All other parts are standing by for assembly except hammers are currently in machining
We are still out at least a few more weeks and I do not have an exact delivery date, since your order has been back ordered for such a long time we would prefer to cancel it and notify you when we have stock on hand or if you really want to stay on back order just please let us know, otherwise know we are working on getting your order filled
Thank you
Tim
You can take this anyway you want to. If it doesn't work out I'll chalk it up as an inexpensive lesson. Being the eternal optimist that I am I'm keeping my order in. I'll remain positive & look forward to one day receiving my Diablo.
Yes it has taken much longer than we anticipated and I apologize for the delay, here is where we are at
The frames are in machining, then they need to go to mass polishing and finishing
All barrel assembly parts are in machining right now, then welding, then mass finishing, then finishing
All other parts are standing by for assembly except hammers are currently in machining
We are still out at least a few more weeks and I do not have an exact delivery date, since your order has been back ordered for such a long time we would prefer to cancel it and notify you when we have stock on hand or if you really want to stay on back order just please let us know, otherwise know we are working on getting your order filled
Thank you
Tim
You can take this anyway you want to. If it doesn't work out I'll chalk it up as an inexpensive lesson. Being the eternal optimist that I am I'm keeping my order in. I'll remain positive & look forward to one day receiving my Diablo.
I think they will eventually start producing guns. I don't really like the way he has gone about getting this thing up and running, trying to appear as if they are an established gun maker instead of just saying they are upstarts, but I don't think it's a scam. I'm guessing he went into this under-capitalized and has been clawing for funds to get off the ground. I think the concept is great and assuming they can produce some guns and the guns are of decent quality, they will be a big success.
I wish we had a “like” button...