The "whats your life worth" stuff needs to end

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Larry^^ That was basically my original rant.

How did we get to using concrete numbers? The whole budget/afford thing was a hypothetical... $150... $200... $250... there is always something of better quality/reliability just $50-75 more than your target budget.

There are many who make poor money choices... buy expensive cell phones and other things instead of being reasonable with their budget... those people do need to re-evaluate their finances...

Their are some who are simply poor due to life circumstances.

Practice is important, and I recommend at least a couple hundred rounds of FMJ and 1 box of the chosen JHP for at least some reliability testing... then one more box of JHP used to keep the gun loaded and ready.

Would more testing, practice, and training be preferable? YES... more is always better, but even in 9mm you are looking at least $80 for minimum practice I described above. So that $150 Hi-point/used revolver just jumped to $230 plus taxes.. $250 when its all said and done.

Some poor single mom who's ex was thrown in jail for domestic violence, then moved to a new apt to make it harder for him to find her... and he is getting out of jail soon and she is afraid for her safety... Those people exist.

She might not be the best shot in the world, but if she at least chose well with the firearm purchase, and learned how the gun works and did some practice, maybe even had some basic instruction from the range master or people at the range or gun store... She has a heck of a lot better chance at defending herself than she did before.

That was the angle I was mostly thinking about it from... that and the family just scraping by in a bad neighborhood and just needing something that they can use to protect themselves should they ever need, while being reasonably able to afford it.


And maybe my history/back story was not needed and/or over the top rhetoric to the topic at hand... but the basic points still stand.
 
I normally don't use lines such as "What is your life worth?" with regard to people who can only reasonably afford X.

If I use such lines, they are with regard to people who say things like "Out of my guns, my P229 is both the most reliable and the one I shoot the best; but, I carry a less expensive gun because in an SD incident, it will get confiscated and the P229 is my most expensive gun."

Some people think like that...
 
Some poor single mom who's ex was thrown in jail for domestic violence, then moved to a new apt to make it harder for him to find her... and he is getting out of jail soon and she is afraid for her safety... Those people exist.
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Yes, they do, and for people like that, a very inexpensive gun that's functional and that can be rapidly obtained can be a lifesaver.

Those who aren't constrained by BOTH time and budget generally have a wider variety of options open to them.
 
Ive used cheap Sat Nite Specials- the pot metal stuff ya know.. they have all proven inadequate but all manage that first shot. God help ya (maybe) if two or more shots are needed. I also carried a .38 Victory model that was pugly, but always fired. It was what I could get for my price range. Also carried a .44 black powder revolver when that was all I had. Sometimes a decent shotgun can be had for lesser money, until a handgun or assrifle can be had. One time I picked up a mod 500A Mossberg extended mag, 20 inch bbl from Wallyworld.. and drove to work and qualified on the range with both buck 00 and slugs. Tho I have others, THAT sucka is by my bed and goes along on camp trips. I like the accessable thumb safety as opposed to the shooting finger safety on the Remmies.
Fairly early on I discovered that quality/price intersects at "Ruger". Some hate on Ruger because of unfortunate business decisions made by the late founder. Still the man designed and built less expensive guns that work for the masses.. and when I had a problem, Ruger took the weapon back and FIXED IT no charge.
Many people needing a gun will go thru the used "face to face" market, for probably several reasons. I found that putting money down on a better weapon and paying it down would get me a more "affordable" but quality piece.
Im not the average gun owner probably, by the Grace of God being born into this wonderful country and society, able to buy, shop, shoot, carry a variety of small arms. Had to use "as needs must" a couple times and saw to it thereafter to have what I want! Have always loved guns and they fall thru my hands like water.. there is always another one I wanted... In part this love has cost me a couple of relationships, sooo sad.
Good luck and happy gun-hunting!
 
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What is your life worth? I own a couple pot metal guns that I would carry before I would carry a sig. I would carry any revolver that doesn't break down over any semi auto. I know the revolver will go bang. It will not malfunction. It's not ammo sensitive or any of that nonsense. I don't have to worry if it has been shot 500 times. I can take it out of the box, load it and bad guy beware. I don't want hear the practice crap either. SD happens real close. I can dry fire a revolver enough to know where everything is at. Two weeks ago in our area two brothers shot each other at six feet. One is dead - the other is still in ICU.
 
A few months ago I got hit with the "what's your life worth" question by a guy with a new Sig 1911 (not sure which one). He was next to me at the range. He showed off his gun when he saw I had a Taurus 1911 (no bash please). I said "Let's see how it shoots". He got all eight into a sillouette at 15 yards, but barely. I put all eight from my Taurus in the head at thirty yards ( didn't measure the exact grouping). I told him "I guess my life is worth enough to learn how to shoot what I've got". He was somewhat humbled and said "Guess I better learn to walk the walk before I talk the talk".

I am not saying my Taurus is better than his Sig. He let me shoot his Sig and it does shoot very well. I might buy one if I didn't already have the Taurus or didn't mind losing money on selling it. May at some time anyway. The Sig was nice. Also the Taurus 1911 is not my HD/SD gun, just a range toy.

My point is a nice, fancy, high dollar gun doesn't do much to save your life if you can't shoot it. I will agree there are some cheap guns to avoid, but some are okay. I don't like the "what's your life worth" comment either. Find another way to say it if you feel you have to say it at all. It is an insult.
 
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Yeah, all that practice stuff is overrated, especially all that drawing from concealment, draw to point fire, draw while in physical contact nonsense... And of course revolvers never ever fail - except that when we have had threads about that topic, a lot of us have actually had revolver failures.

Edit: Response to Old Crow, not to KMAX.
 
I suspect a number of contributors have not shot enough cheap revolvers to know that they don't always go bang, or need six different aim points to get half of them on the paper, or that big named (inexpensive) auto that won't hit a car hood twice at 25 yards. There is a huge number of junk guns in the economy. There is also a large number of accurate, reliable guns, inexpensive because they are out of style wheelguns, or all metal autos. If you can play the economizer with your SD/HD plan, haven't you already answered the question, what's my life worth? It's not about the money with everyone. It's more about the commitment. If it's just an "I got" moment, some more jewelry, or something to ride around in the truck, get the POS! If it's about actually having the tools and the talent to get out of a deadly situation, prepare yourself. Young troops worry; old troops dig.
 
Maybe you didn't lose your job in this economy but millions have. Maybe you have 5 years of money saved up but millions have exhausted their savings paying expenses like food, rent and heat because that's all that they can afford until they can find a job that pays more than $8 an hour. The OP's original rant was right on. Some people just don't have the extra $170 for that Ruger or don't have that extra $15 for a box of ammo and they get told that maybe they shouldn't have a gun because they can't afford to practice enough to satisfy you? Seriously? Yeah, there's snobs and there's people who have empathy and there are some people who just don't get it and never will because they don't know what hardship is.
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I do know what being poor is like I was for (not short enough) time. Untill I pulled myself out of it with hard work and commitment. And I do mean truely poor. Is sleeping on a friends couch because you don't even have a place to go "poor" enough for you?
Don't assume that the people who are currently poor have a monopoly on hardship.:mad:


Now if your having trouble paying the rent/morgage feeding a family because your on hard times then lets face it your priorities should be different. And sorry if your too broke to buy a $15 box of ammo for practice one in a while then whats the point anyway? A firearm isn't worth much if you are skilled with it.

And yes $300 isn't too much, anyone can save that up. If you can get $200 you can get $300 its just a matter of patience and self control. Most of the people I see argueing that "this is all I could afford" ment "this is all I could afford when I decided to buy a gun on impulse without doing any research or shopping around."
A little self control or sacrifice/shopping around for a decent used gun, will get you a servicable gun.
And if all else fails just go buy a Mossberg pump action. I see them for about $170 around here.
 
Kind of off topic but to the OP, good for you and your family. I like people who dont take hand outs. But I am under the impression that ANY gun is better than no gun.
 
The problem with being poor now is that there are not the abundance of surplus arms and ammo like there was when I was growing up. I bought my first handgun dirt cheap, through the mail and it worked for years. Now most of this stuff is tightly controlled. Don't want the masses having cheap firearms and ammo to practice with anymore I guess. My last big score was when police began to phase out the S&W 27 revolvers and sold them dirt cheap through some local dealers. You can still get some good surplus eastern bloc pistols for under $200.00 but you need to get surplus ammo too which is not readily available but fairly cheap.
 
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My point is a nice, fancy, high dollar gun doesn't do much to save your life if you can't shoot it. I will agree there are some cheap guns to avoid, but some are okay. I don't like the "what's your life worth" comment either. Find another way to say it if you feel you have to say it at all. It is an insult.
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I've always subscribed to the idea that any gun is better than no gun. If all one can afford is an inexpensive one, who am I to judge that decision? I would just hope that whatever gun they choose, that they spend the time and effort to learn how to shoot it. At least they are exercising their 2A rights to protect themselves and their families.

KMAX said it well, hence my quote above. My small collection contains a mixture of expensive and inexpensive guns, but I take the time to research and ask opinions before a purchase. Inexpensive doesn't always mean cheap, and lemons come in every make and model.
 
You want to see some gun snobs join a trap and skeet club. I was a little apprehensive at 1st when I saw the $10k custom over and under's at my club. I had a Mossberg 535 pump that cost $400. Everyone looked at me like I was nut's.

After the 2nd round of trap I noticed I was beating all of them. I have the cash to get a nice over under but it's more fun this way.
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This statement is what I consider to be a classic example of "reverse snobbery". Sort of like a twelve year old boy using a green willow branch and a bent safety pin to outfish a pro-angler using the latest high-tech wizardry. Of course, the commentary that follows such a feat always lauds the kid's success with his primitive equipment and ridicules the pro's reliance on the tools of his profession. In real life, this kind of scenario rarely computes.
 
Gun snobs aren't all that common here. Usually ag the range there's somebody with a gun that acts like they are the best. I've literally seen a crowd of people at the range watching a guy. They were all beginners and this guy was trying to show off. They were all friends. This "expert" had no regards toward safety. Many times he just walked out on the range. At this range, people ask can they go out and everyone usually goes out together. Well, this guy had an AR and a Glock 45, might of had an 870 too, can't remember. He was shooting at 15 yards away and was constantly checking his targets without saying anything. Walked right out in front of my wife while about a second way from pulling the trigger on my .243 Savage. We just left at that point. I've ran into although people at the range that are similar to this. Around here, most people are snobs about their skills. The ones that try to act like they have something special usually have the run of the mill stuff. My guns aren't fancy, but I'm good with what I have. I know people that brag about groups of their scoped .22 rifle at handgun ranges, so...
 
Buy a quality gun.

I carry Glocks, a Wilson is no better as a carry gun than a Glock, just classier.

I ride a Jap bike ( Suzuki DL1000), not because I cannot afford a Harley, I do not want one. I wear a full-face helmet, gloves and a riding jacket.

Ranting about being poor, please. I grew up poor and went in the Army.
 
2nd post up ^

Seriously..what's with the whiny thread still going? A lot of people have gone through hardships and stay humble about it.

This is seeming like a urinating contest more and more. Should I start with mine? Nah...that'll contradict what I just said anyways. :p

Can we move on? This thread isn't going to stop people from asking "what's your life worth?"
 
Seriously..what's with the whiny thread still going? A lot of people have gone through hardships and stay humble about it.

This is seeming like a urinating contest more and more. Should I start with mine? Nah...that'll contradict what I just said anyways.

Can we move on? This thread isn't going to stop people from asking "what's your life worth?"
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So you're whining about the whining? So then whats YOUR life worth?

LOL jk

I agree with you actually. The OP got all emotional after not seeing the full logic behind the question, and tied that question into his high school days where he didn't have a Z28 camaro and some rich kids only said hi on Sunday. Then everyone responded, some saying "ya thats right" and others saying "ok lets look at the bigger picture here". Then some people addressed statements that weren't in this thread "if you can't afford a Ruger or Glock, the you don't deserve anything". Others said if "someone is poor, they still have a right to carry and should" which was also off topic. Perhaps half of this thread was on topic.

When I say "what is your life worth" its because I think a CCW should not be ordered the way a kitchen appliance is: you make a decision on whats important, and adapt to its features or lack thereof. The kitchen appliance will not put your life in danger and it can't save your life. A decision about a CCW should be less about money and more about why you are getting a gun in the first place, and also about what you ARE GETTING for your money. A cheaply made firearm intended to save money could easily be a WASTE.

I think this one has out-lived its usefulness in regards to CCWs and handguns in general.

CLOSED

Oh wait, I don't have that power. Never mind ;)
 
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LOL agreed with what you said 73...

Dont say I'm whining! I'm very very tangible! D:

;)


Ugh..yes, close it down already!

It bothers me when people are overly sensitive! We're here to talk about guns! Not emotions of why you have what you have and don't have what someone else has.


Speaking of which....


Winchester_73....I bought the extractor for the Colt 70 Series...should be here sometime this week. :cool:
 
What's my life worth? Just as much as anyone else's. How I choose to defend it and what I use is my choice. A life defended with a "saturday night special" is just as valuable as one defended with a "custom shop pistol"

marine6680's original post pretty much explained it pretty well, and I agree with the premise.

If you can afford steak, then eat steak. But remember that rice and tuna can sustain you also
 
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