The truth about Iraq

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Leif:

I'm not arguing in favor of any sort of fight to the finish.

I'm saying that's where things look to be headed, whether I like it (I don't) or not.

Many stupid things are being done by BOTH sides of this issue, and have been done that way for a long time. That does not seem to be changing.

I would like (a civilized thing) to have it another way. It exists (a real thing) the way it is.
 
Except for one thing: I can't help but think it might be more productive to take the hundreds of billions we are pouring into Iraq and spend it on alternative energy technologies. We have the fossil fuels we need right here. Enough coal, shale oil and oil-sands to run our SUVs for the next 100 years. Scale-up of known enhanced oil/gas recovery and coal gasification/liquefaction technologies would make us independent of oil imports. And at $55-60 a barrel, these are already cost effective.
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biodiesel biodiesel biodiesel biodiesel! :D

Our dependancy on oil would drastically drop if all commercial trucking as well as agricultural diesel fuel was sourced from biomass. Engines are very easily converted and typically better for the environment. Massive soy and hemp crops which provide high mass per square foot and are easily grown would have little trouble supporting this.


Instead the people are led to believe that "hydrogen" is the way to go despite it requiring the use of more fossil fuels per mile than simply using gas...brilliant :barf:
 
Actually about 20% of our imported oil comes from the Persian Gulf region. That is projected to increase to about 25% by 2025. ANWAR in Alaska is just a bandaid for the problem.

Venezuela is offering reduced costs on heating oil to states to help with heating costs for the poor and elderly. Conneticutt just got a legal review that it was okay to purchase it...lol

Actually Mr. Bush has said that mid east oil is a problem and wants to cut our consumption of it by 75% if you caught his speech. Mr. Bush says we the American people are addicted to oil! Alright you oil junkies help Mr. Bush make his 75% :eek:
 
I was loving how good this post was getting until cobray had to poison it with partisan caca...yeah, we can eliminate that insurgency alright...what consitutes as being an 'insurgent' anyway? the ones that are left after the airstrikes?
 
Massive soy and hemp crops which provide high mass per square foot and are easily grown would have little trouble supporting this.
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If we ended Prohibition or at least legalized the production of hemp this would be a viable option, but that's a whole other war all together. Big corporations don't like the idea that a plant that grows like a weed could dent the profits of the clothing, food, energy, and medical industries. We all know whose money counts the most in Washington.
 
Our dependancy on oil would drastically drop if all commercial trucking as well as agricultural diesel fuel was sourced from biomass. Engines are very easily converted and typically better for the environment. Massive soy and hemp crops which provide high mass per square foot and are easily grown would have little trouble supporting this.
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The money we spend on Iraq should be going to build energy independence for Americans.

We need to change course. The truth about Iraq isn't about nation building or fighting terror. It is an attempt to bully other nations into line so they will continue to supply oil to the west. There are better alternatives for us and for the Iraqis.

Our troops deserve a Commander in Chief that they can respect. Sure hope McCain is nominated next time around.
 
yeah, i 2nd mccain...but i worry he's been comprimised, but still, at least he looks like he remembers what 'right and wrong' still is. He shoulda made it through 5-6 years ago, i dunno what happened.
 
Yeah, what are insurgents anyway? I always thought it meant foreign or outside intruders. Uh-oh! that's us! :eek:
...and real patriots question authority and leadership in a free society. That's a key component of our wonderful democracy! "Ain't" it grand?
How about air droppin' a bunch of Sears Catologes over Iraq and having DonkeyBoy declare victory at one of those RW&B photo shoots and then spend some of those billions on restoring democracy and prosperity here!
Give me a Rhodes Scholar to a towel snappin' moron anyday!But that's just me!
"Freedom is where wings take dream!" GWB:eek: :eek: :eek:

Rimrock
 
If we ended Prohibition or at least legalized the production of hemp this would be a viable option, but that's a whole other war all together. Big corporations don't like the idea that a plant that grows like a weed could dent the profits of the clothing, food, energy, and medical industries. We all know whose money counts the most in Washington.
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well to avoid skewing this argument I'll stick with the soy, which is nearly as viable as hemp for this purpose :p
 
Our involvement in Iraq is going EXACTLY the way the Iraqi's want it to. They have us stuck in their country with no honorable way out and no way to honorably stay. WE are held out as the boogie man and the enemy which gives justification for the bad Iraqi elements to bomb and kill instead of assassinate their leaders. And when they do that, we launch an offensive, which causes the insurgents to retaliate, which makes us go on the offensive again, etc ad nauseum. Stuck in a death spiral.

If Iraq does have a civil war you can blame it on the Sunni's. They've been a thorn in the side of the new leadership since day one. If they'd get off the stump they'd have a constitution. but they won't because it's too easy to cry about how they're being excluded and stonewall EVERYTHING. Net result will be civil war because they couldn't do their jobs. And they deserve it.

I'm totally tired of Iraq and GWB's insistence on our being there. It's BULLstuffings and we all know it. It's time to cut the crap and bring our boys home and tell Iraq to go play with itself.
 
At this point, it seems that it might be better to redeploy our troops to protect our friends in the new Independent Republic of Kurdistan, along a 10-mile wide buffer zone running down the Iran-Iraq border to the Persian Gulf, and around the southern oil fields. Let the Sunnis and Shiites have at each other, but without our troops in the middle.
 
Rob, with all due respect were you dropped on your head?! Yes, we've fallen into those iraqi's cunning plans, we're right where they want us now...Do you think stuck in their country is where they want us? I don't know if you noticed but it's pretty hard to have an 'honorable' way out with such a downright dishonorable way in (hey guys, we're here to rob you but don't worry, we'll have the power back on in notime...*3 years later*). Bush's momma musta never tought him to leave things neater than when he found them cuz we've F****d up iraq and afghanistan, they're in a new catagory, 4th world countries!
 
Rob, with all due respect were you dropped on your head?! Yes, we've fallen into those iraqi's cunning plans, we're right where they want us now...Do you think stuck in their country is where they want us? I don't know if you noticed but it's pretty hard to have an 'honorable' way out with such a downright dishonorable way in (hey guys, we're here to rob you but don't worry, we'll have the power back on in notime...*3 years later*). Bush's momma musta never tought him to leave things neater than when he found them cuz we've F****d up iraq and afghanistan, they're in a new catagory, 4th world countries!
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Can I get an Amen?


The truth is the GWBzers thought they were going to "shock and awe" that country back to the stone age. Then the people would greet us as liberators ...we'd all put on Levis and go hand in hand to a tailgate party before the big game! Goosh that sounds like swell fun!
They had no desire to research the cultural/religious factors of Iraq back to WWI. Why don't these guys ever listen to folks who have spent their lives studying this stuff. Do we feel better when Uncle Dick says, "Well the insurgents are in the "last throes" DC 5-21-05.:eek: Simply answers to complex problems....it just doesn't work!
May we never repeat this god awful mistake.

Rimrock
 
That's democracy?

Prez says constantly he got to do his job for the American people. Lets see his buddies in the supreme court took the victory away from Gore. The taliban rejected their proposal to put a Unocal [Karizi] pipeline through their country to the port of Haifa. Then told the FBI and pentagon to stand down for a "drill" on 9-11, while thousands lost their lives.The democrats got a super weapons grade anthrax scare, they signed the Unpatriotic act without reading it. We went to Afghanistan, used daisy cutters, cluster bombs and DU on them, put the pipeline property owners in Guantanamo never to be seen again, got Re-elected over Kerry [ his sculls and bones buddy] with electronic vote machines. He left the borders wide open, is spending more money than all the past Presidents combined, Lets all our jobs go overseas, outsources the rest . Attacks a sovereign country Iraq and destroys it , [no weapons] creates insurgents from every Islam nation on earth to keep us in fear. Doesn't give our troops body armor, they get in trouble for beefing up their Humvee. Wants more money,more money , lets oil companies take all our savings, calls the Constitution just a piece of paper. Lets the king of Spain buy all our future toll roads and sells the 22+ ports to the UAE. Haliburton sub B/R is building detention camps so they can go forward with operation end game which disarms all Americans. I'd say he's doing a job on US, not for us. Can you handle this documented truth?
 
Rob, with all due respect were you dropped on your head?!
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Can I get an Amen?
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You both missed my point. My point is that Iraq now wants and needs us to remain in country. Without our presence there the Iraqi insurgency has only one set of targets - their own leadership. With us in country these insurgents have 2 targets which immediately cuts in half the odd of being targeted (if you're an Iraqi minister that is) for assassination.

They don't care that our soldiers are doing the dieing. They only care that it isn't THEM who are being killed. So what if an export oil pipeline is cut. THEY don't need the oil and rebuilding the pipeline puts Iraqi's to work.

Tit for tat it's the same deal that Israel has with Palestine. Can't advance, can't retreat, can't stay. Lose, lose, lose. Unless you can convince the people back home that there's a real need to stay despite the losses we're taking. And I think that GWB has about run out of credit on that particular line.

It's time to bring them home.
 
Let me make sure I've got this straight.

We need to stay in Iraq--

1) Until they become a capitalist democracy just like us.

2) So we can have access to their oil supply.

3) So another dictator won't seize power.

Have I got it right?

Does anyone really believe the above is worth the effort, expenditure and loss of life already squandered there? I wonder how many fervent supporters would go there and sacrifice their life or the life of their son or daughter to continue this occupation. If you wouldn't, maybe it's time to rethink the whole thing.
 
The sad aspect about these sorts of "truth about..." postings is that nobody posting really has any idea why things are going on the way they are and whether or not such events are part of a plan or not. What is the true reason(s) we are there? Are things going well for it?

For example, did anybody stop to consider that the real reason we are there is to promote instability in the region and to promote Muslim on Muslim fighting? There would be no way in the world for the Administration to promote this sort of endeavor to the American people because it would be seen as anti-Muslim and inhuman. However, we are able to generate considerable instability with on limited US troop involvement.

IMHO, we were never in Iraq for the Iraqi people. We are not staying there for them now. We are simply there to keep matters in flux in a form that is somewhat controlled and closely monitored.
 
Too Bad For Adolph

Poor Hitler, if only he had polls and liberals in the United States helping his cause. We might all be speaking German right now.
 
Poor Hitler, if only he had polls and liberals in the United States helping his cause. We might all be speaking German right now.
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:confused:

Maybe I'm being obtuse, but that's a strange statement, especially in this context. Explanation?
 
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