The NRA Response

The shooting was a tragedy.

Passing more draconian gun laws and disarming our society won't stop more shootings.

The usual bottom feeding trash have just come out of the shadows and started to push the anti-gun agenda, and if you oppose them you are in favor of child murder...

...I have yet to see more slimy politics.

I will leave you with a quote:

"I know the sense of helplessness that people feel. I know the urge to arm yourself because that’s what I did. I was trained in firearms. I walked to the hospital when my husband was sick. I carried a concealed weapon and I made the determination if somebody was going to try and take me out, I was going to take them with me."

Was that a pro-child murder NRA lobbyist? A racist right wing politician? A crazy gun nut with 200 ARs and 100,000k rounds of ammo in a storage crate buried in the West Virginia mountains?

No, it was Sen Dianne Feinstein. The politicians will always want the best health care, the best education for their children, guns to feel safe. They just don't want YOU to have any of those things--because they know better.
 
While I don't have have children myself, I do have three nieces that I definitely think a lot of, and I would sure rather see them in a classroom with an armed teacher that had passed the required state CHL test than one armed with chalk and erasers...
 
I'm sorry but the following is unacceptable to me:
1. Purchase gun on Monday.
2. Take basic course for Concealed Firearms Permit on Tuesday & Wednsday.
3. Start carrying gun to school starting on Thursday.
Click to expand...
That's actually more training than most civilians who carry undertake.
 
That's actually more training than most civilians who carry undertake
Click to expand...

Exactly. Why should teachers be held to some higher standard than other folks in this regard? All I ask is that I be able to carry at school like I do when I go downtown... I'm going to be my normal self at school, except I'll have a fighting chance (and so will my kids) if a shooter comes into my classroom
 
Where is the empirical evidence that CCW types are a risk to the public as compared to the general population?

Being not an amateur in the research world and the gun world - there is no such evidence. CCW types have a markedly lower crime rate than the general populace.

Oh, we have the Zimmerman case and the Loud music shooter in Florida. We have 500 illegal shootings in Chicago.

There is no functional difference between the CCW type in the mall, the religious institution or the school.

I think if you carry a gun, you should train. Sure - but I'd rather have a teacher with a two day course as compared to a pencil facing a monster.

I would rather have an upright and moral teacher carrying who has thought about protecting children seeing Jerry Sandusky raping a little boy as compared to an All-American assistant coach worried about his team image and career.
 
That is the basic issue I have. I don't want my kids sitting in a classroom with a teacher who has questionable sanity as well as a gun.

I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to want to know that the teacher with a gun isn't going to be irresponsible with it.

Is it so wrong to be concerned about that, and want to know that a teacher in question is not a safety concern themselves?
Click to expand...

How do you know that anyone else is not a safety concern? How do I know you're not a safety concern?

Personally, I don't know you're not a safety concern. But we have technically a one shot requirement for CCW, 1 million permit holders, and my chance of being shot by a permit holder is still lower than being struck by lightning. So I'm just going to trust you, just like I do everybody else. Just like you trust your child's teacher not to strangle your kid.
 
No1der - can you document for us your psych. evaluation and how thorough it was? I'm sure before purchasing firearms you were concerned enough about your own mental stablity to undergo thorough testing.

I know police go through such (which fails at time - see the NYPD cannibal).

It's that simple - clue us in, please.
 
two-ways-oleg.jpg


I can't understand how its even a question. I try very hard to put myself in the mind of others and understand their reasoning. I really, really do. I just can't ever for the life of me though, understand the mentality that would rather go down cowering, versus putting up a fight.

If you defend yourself with a gun can you still be killed? Yes. Is there a possibility that you could hit an innocent while doing it? Yes. Is there also a good chance one could prevail? Yes. The alternative is cowering and dying. I can't understand that mentality.
 
That is the basic issue I have. I don't want my kids sitting in a classroom with a teacher who has questionable sanity as well as a gun
Click to expand...

I don't want my kids sitting in a classroom with a teacher who has questionable sanity. Period.

If they are nutty, they should not be responsible for children.

It's not like a gun will make them murderous: if they are murderous, then they'll use whatever means are at hand.

As for it just being against the law, Federal and State (in most cases):

18 USC § 922 (q)(2) --

(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.

(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—

(i) on private property not part of school grounds;

(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;

(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and

(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;

(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;

(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;

(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or

(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to
Click to expand...

That allows for Carry by persons under contract with the school (that would include....... wait for it ........ "Teachers" and "Administators", who in their contract were designated to Carry ...... call it an "additional duty" or whatever.

Many states have laws against guns in school zones .... but such laws were made by men, and can be changed by men..... so man up.....

It's pretty obvious to me that the only acceptable answer in the unlikely event of an active shooter in my kids' school is a person on the scene with a gun to stop them. I'm going to work toward that.
 
I am not against teacher having a concealed weapon in school and I would feel safer having my kids in a place where I know that they are very protected.

The ONLY thing I want is to make sure that the School has made sure that the teacher is a responsible person who knows the safety basics of carrying a gun. That is all I am concerned with.

We've all been through public schools and we've all had teachers who were "questionable" in regards to their maturity. I've had teachers where it was questionable if they were even sane.

I've had teachers who were irresponsible with everything they did but since they had been at the school for so long it wasn't an option to fire them.

I've also had great teachers who I thought the world of.

That is the basic issue I have. I don't want my kids sitting in a classroom with a teacher who has questionable sanity as well as a gun.

I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination to want to know that the teacher with a gun isn't going to be irresponsible with it.

Is it so wrong to be concerned about that, and want to know that a teacher in question is not a safety concern themselves?
Click to expand...

Teachers are people just like everyone else and there are good ones as well as bad ones. I've seen no evidence that a larger proportion of teachers are irresponsible or mentally unstable than the populace at large and I still fail to see how an irresponsible teacher with a gun creates any greater risk in a school than they would in another crowded place. How is a child getting unintentionally shot in a shopping mall or amusement park any less tragic than one getting unintentionally shot in a school? So, the question remains: why is someone who is qualified to carry a gun in crowded public places like shopping malls and amusement parks not also qualified to do so in a school?
 
I can't understand how its even a question. I try very hard to put myself in the mind of others and understand their reasoning. I really, really do. I just can't ever for the life of me though, understand the mentality that would rather go down cowering, versus putting up a fight.
Click to expand...


For most of them, you don't understand their reasoning, because they're not using reason. They're using emotion. A firearm evokes an emotional response for them, and they can't imagine having a firearm around a child. Never mind the fact they wouldn't think twice about a $10 an hour security guard or a police officer around their children with a firearm, because that evokes a different emotional response.

I don't know who said it, but I'm reminded of the quote, "You can't reason a man out of a position he wasn't reasoned into in the first place."
 
No1der said:
I am not against teacher having a concealed weapon in school and I would feel safer having my kids in a place where I know that they are very protected.

The ONLY thing I want is to make sure that the School has made sure that the teacher is a responsible person who knows the safety basics of carrying a gun. That is all I am concerned with.
Click to expand...

The state, through their CCW process, has done that already. Why should the school have to do it again?

In my proposal, the only ones who would get extra training are the school personnel who are designated to get carbines and actively engage the armed threat. And any LEO trainer could train them in that in one day. The teachers with CCW's that don't volunteer for this duty have one responsibility....secure the classroom and protect their children & themselves....just like the CCW teacher has anywhere else.

And, while we're changing laws, get rid of the exclusions to the parking-lot protection laws that exclude school zones (i.e. Texas). Just because you can't protect yourself in the schools shouldn't prohibit you from protecting yourself on the commute.
 
The state, through their CCW process, has done that already. Why should the school have to do it again?
Click to expand...

On a practical level, to satisfy USC 18-922(q)(2) ..... and to make it more palatable to a state legislature.

If it would help put firearms where they need to be to stop one of these things (they need to be in the hands of someone at the scene with the beans to confront the nutter), then Great! By all means, allow the School Admin to designate who Carries, just so SOMEBODY does.
 
I think that the teachers should be chosen from the ones willing to do so. Pick the individuals from that group.

Is should be a discrete process without the others even knowing who's carrying.
 
If a teacher qualifies for a permit or license in his or her state, then they should be allowed to carry in school.

If they misuse the gun, then they should be vulnerable to the criminal or civil penalties. The school should have immunity.

It's that simple.

There is no difference between the school and other crowded venues.
 
That is how I see it.

Also, while I respect No1der's reasoning, I do not agree with it. Webleymkv made the good point that those of us who would prefer to have armed teachers also may have kids who are required to attend.

Along those lines, we could also argue that parents who strenuously object could opt for home-schooling - though this is an argument that either side could use against the other.
 
I like the idea of trained and armed teachers in our schools --- but being realistic --- some neighborhoods, especially some inner city neighborhoods... armed teachers, will have a slim but modest chance of being assaulted and robbed of there firearms; by gangs of youths in the hallways and stairwells of our high schools. Some teachers will be shot by there own handguns, from assault attempts --- and the students, who try to steal handguns from armed teachers --- will also have a good chance of being shot.
 
Last edited:
It's that simple.

There is no difference between the school and other crowded venues.
Click to expand...

Is not that simple.

I am not required by law to send my kids to other crowded venues or provide them an out of pocket substitute. If the state is going to require my obedience in this matter than I require them to provide a safe environment. Definitions and ideas of "safe" vary widely.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top