The Judge
- Thread starter leolb1
- Start date
Randall_Guy
Inactive
Anybody tried this?
This is a Judge/Governor question somewhat pertaining to the original post.
Has anyone tried to load a 45LC or 454 Casull case with a 45LC powder load
(e.g. 9gr of Unique) then a thin wad then some shot then seat a .451 or so
bullet? I realize that Winchester has .410 PDX loads with 3 discs and 12 BBs,
but I want a 200gr 45 bullet followed by the shot.
Downsides? Suggestions?
This is a Judge/Governor question somewhat pertaining to the original post.
Has anyone tried to load a 45LC or 454 Casull case with a 45LC powder load
(e.g. 9gr of Unique) then a thin wad then some shot then seat a .451 or so
bullet? I realize that Winchester has .410 PDX loads with 3 discs and 12 BBs,
but I want a 200gr 45 bullet followed by the shot.
Downsides? Suggestions?
shootbrownelk
New member
I agree with Peggy Sue. I use my Judge for snakes. Shot a bunch while antelope and deer hunting around rocky areas when the Rattlers are migrating. #7 1/2's are good snake medicine.
I've shot one loaded with birdshot....... target was a cardboard box an appliance came in ..... say 2 1/2 foot by 3 1/2 foot per side. At under 20 feet, there was a bare spot in the pattern at least a foot in diameter, and some of the pellets missed the box entirely ...... even for snakes, it would be a pee-poor tool...... unless your plan is to bum-rush jake, in which case, I'd feel comfortable in sayin' you have a bad plan.......
I've never been a fan of these things, and would ..... well...... I won't go further into the whys of that..... I've already said all I'm going to on the whys of that.....
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When helping a friend in a gun shop, we sold the first one we got, it made it one shot before having to send it in for warranty work. The extractor star was not aligned correctly, and if you could get a 410 shell into it....it would flow enough under the extractor to be a problem.
I agree..there are better things out there. Heck if you can't hit a snake with a .22 from a few feet away, you should be practicing more anyway.
I agree..there are better things out there. Heck if you can't hit a snake with a .22 from a few feet away, you should be practicing more anyway.
The Judges I have ran have operated flawlessly. I don't have one and have no intention of buying one simply because there so many firearms above it on my list. Why would I consider a Judge? I am certainly not new and although I have made naive decisions (at least knee jerk) over the years, it isn't a continual state...
. Nope, I would buy one because they are just flat out fun.....thats it, just flat out fun.
. Nope, I would buy one because they are just flat out fun.....thats it, just flat out fun.Mike Irwin
Staff
"Small shot OTOH, won't travel as far or have as much energy even if it does."
But depending on what it hits, that small shot can rebound right back at you.
I had that experience watching the tech shoot one of the first Thunder5s available back in the 1990s.
We both were peppered around the head and face with No. 6 shot that bounced off the target hanger. We were standing about 10 feet away.
Had I not been wearing eye protection, I would have lost my glasses and very likely had a badly damaged eye.
These things are far too often bought for all of the wrong reasons. People believe they're getting the power of a 12 gauge shotgun in a handgun.
People think they don't have to aim, the shot will take care of everything.
They think they're the perfect carry gun until they actually try to carry one.
I've always thought that these things are answers in search of a pertinent question, and that they've always failed to find one.
But depending on what it hits, that small shot can rebound right back at you.
I had that experience watching the tech shoot one of the first Thunder5s available back in the 1990s.
We both were peppered around the head and face with No. 6 shot that bounced off the target hanger. We were standing about 10 feet away.
Had I not been wearing eye protection, I would have lost my glasses and very likely had a badly damaged eye.
These things are far too often bought for all of the wrong reasons. People believe they're getting the power of a 12 gauge shotgun in a handgun.
People think they don't have to aim, the shot will take care of everything.
They think they're the perfect carry gun until they actually try to carry one.
I've always thought that these things are answers in search of a pertinent question, and that they've always failed to find one.
longtimeshooter
New member
I only use it for home defense. 00 Buckshot in the nightstand. As a DC I would be concerned about bystanders, and the 45LC is only good for very short range with this design. If 6 .410 shots isn't enough the M4 with subsonics and 6 mags is very close by.
ShootistPRS
New member
In my 45/410 pistol I tested the accuracy and velocity of both 45 Colt and 410 ammo. My gun shoots 410 slugs at higher velocity and much better accuracy than any of the 45 rounds I tested. When I carry it the gun is loaded with 410 slugs and the speed loader is too.
The only time I use shot shells is when I am in snake country - for the obvious reasons.
The only time I use shot shells is when I am in snake country - for the obvious reasons.
Strafer Gott
New member
Don't use roll-crimped shotshells if you don't like donut shaped patterns. Just a suggestion. Patterns are really aggravated by the little wad. If you shoot .45 Colt or .45 acp like the Governor does, you're golden, as a .45 is almost as effective as a 9mm. ROFLMAO goodness.
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
This is an endless topic. The best we can ask for is informed opinions from some with expertise in self-defense and firearms (like Mike). For another view by Tom Givens pointing out the deficiencies of the gun, go to http://proarmspodcast.com/ and look for #60.
If you don't know who Tom is - you are way behind the curve on those with real expertise.
If you like it, that's great. However, it is gun that shoots but not considered a serious self-defense weapon as compared to much better options.
If you don't know who Tom is - you are way behind the curve on those with real expertise.
If you like it, that's great. However, it is gun that shoots but not considered a serious self-defense weapon as compared to much better options.
Man I must have some real expertise, none of that broadcast was surprising. Yep, shot can hit bystanders, birdshot lacks penetration, .45lc isn't as accurate due to the shallow rifling. Heck, they could of had me on that broadcast.... For a carry weapon? You need to be accountable for others you might me spraying, no way I would use one as a carry weapon short of a woods gun.
For a home defense/night stand gun? I wouldn't thumb my nose at anyone using a Judge.
. For a carry weapon? You need to be accountable for others you might me spraying, no way I would use one as a carry weapon short of a woods gun. For a home defense/night stand gun? I wouldn't thumb my nose at anyone using a Judge.
bedbugbilly
New member
This is my personal opinion so don't crucify me please - to each their own.
When I think of pistols like the Judge and when I hear about people loading them up with shot, etc. for self defense - the first thing I think of is "collateral damage" to anyone who happens to be in the way of the muzzle if someone let's loose with it for SD - and the one thing that always gets drilled into your head during a CCW class is "make sure of what is behind where you are pointing that muzzle".
The second thing I think of is that it is so popular with many because they are looking for a SD gun . . . but don't want to take the time to practice and be efficient with a standard handgun. Too many people get handguns and CCW licenses and then never take the time to practice on a regular basis to keep familiar with the handgun and how to shoot it accurately. The same goes for those who buy a home defense gun, maybe shoot it a few times and then tuck it in their nightstand drawer never to practice with it again.
Obviously there is a market for the Judge, the Governor, etc. and people buy them . . . but it's a bit of false self security to think that a load of shot or buck shot even is going to stop a perp overtime in their tracks if they are hyped up on drugs, etc. Yep. You can load them with a 45 Colt . . . but again, how often are you going to practice and are ou going to devote time once a month to put a 100 rounds downrange so you know you can hit critical mass and can you handle the recoil of a 45 Colt? If so - then more power to you. If not. then it seems to me that a person would be a lot better off with a good .380, 9mm or 38 where ammo is cheaper than the 45 Colt and monthly practice would be more practical. As far as using shot or buck shot . . . are you going to, again, devote time to practice on a frequent basis and put a 100 rounds through it each time or are you wanting to use the shot or buck shot, as you think you will hit the target in lieu of developing good shooting skills and devoting time to practice?
Just "personal thoughts" and not meant to ruffle anyone's feathers - but Im sure a lot of folks view these guns the same way I do.
When I think of pistols like the Judge and when I hear about people loading them up with shot, etc. for self defense - the first thing I think of is "collateral damage" to anyone who happens to be in the way of the muzzle if someone let's loose with it for SD - and the one thing that always gets drilled into your head during a CCW class is "make sure of what is behind where you are pointing that muzzle".
The second thing I think of is that it is so popular with many because they are looking for a SD gun . . . but don't want to take the time to practice and be efficient with a standard handgun. Too many people get handguns and CCW licenses and then never take the time to practice on a regular basis to keep familiar with the handgun and how to shoot it accurately. The same goes for those who buy a home defense gun, maybe shoot it a few times and then tuck it in their nightstand drawer never to practice with it again.
Obviously there is a market for the Judge, the Governor, etc. and people buy them . . . but it's a bit of false self security to think that a load of shot or buck shot even is going to stop a perp overtime in their tracks if they are hyped up on drugs, etc. Yep. You can load them with a 45 Colt . . . but again, how often are you going to practice and are ou going to devote time once a month to put a 100 rounds downrange so you know you can hit critical mass and can you handle the recoil of a 45 Colt? If so - then more power to you. If not. then it seems to me that a person would be a lot better off with a good .380, 9mm or 38 where ammo is cheaper than the 45 Colt and monthly practice would be more practical. As far as using shot or buck shot . . . are you going to, again, devote time to practice on a frequent basis and put a 100 rounds through it each time or are you wanting to use the shot or buck shot, as you think you will hit the target in lieu of developing good shooting skills and devoting time to practice?
Just "personal thoughts" and not meant to ruffle anyone's feathers - but Im sure a lot of folks view these guns the same way I do.
Besides what Mike Irwin said, I don't like Taurus because of their lockwork. The transfer bar is susceptible to breakage and Taurus just can't get their metallurgy or heat treatment (if any) right on them. There are other things I don't like about their lockwork, but as I warn people, Pay now (for superior produced firearms) or pay later (down time and repair costs). I'd buy 'merican.
Bedbug, honestly, feathers need to be ruffled ( I keep chickens, and they CONSTANTLY ruffle each others, and their own, feathers.)! If everybody accepts everything put out there, and nothing gets questioned, then dumb stuff continues unchallenged.
I see two different and opposing dynamics happening today:
1) The "Don't Judge Me" thing ..... Face it, everybody judges everything...... they discriminate, make value judgments ...and if they don't , well, I'll make the judgment that they lack the courage of their convictions or lack convictions in the first place. Folks get married to their choices, and defend them way past reason ..... any unbiased, informed review of the various "shotgun revolvers" will tell you that there are better choices for whatever task you have for them, save maybe to prevent buyer's remorse.
2) The ubiquitous avalanche of information available to nearly everyone, all the time...... Had this been available in the age before folks got their feelings hurt when someone disagreed with them and stupid stuff could be referenced and rebutted with a few keystrokes .... the Judge/Thunder 5 may not have had to happen to the gun world again ....... but then again, Condition 3/Israeli Carry continues to be a thing, though the Israelis don't even do that anymore.......
I see two different and opposing dynamics happening today:
1) The "Don't Judge Me" thing ..... Face it, everybody judges everything...... they discriminate, make value judgments ...and if they don't , well, I'll make the judgment that they lack the courage of their convictions or lack convictions in the first place. Folks get married to their choices, and defend them way past reason ..... any unbiased, informed review of the various "shotgun revolvers" will tell you that there are better choices for whatever task you have for them, save maybe to prevent buyer's remorse.
2) The ubiquitous avalanche of information available to nearly everyone, all the time...... Had this been available in the age before folks got their feelings hurt when someone disagreed with them and stupid stuff could be referenced and rebutted with a few keystrokes .... the Judge/Thunder 5 may not have had to happen to the gun world again ....... but then again, Condition 3/Israeli Carry continues to be a thing, though the Israelis don't even do that anymore.......