Yes. I know it doesn't sound great, but the fact is the Dem's, ACLU, & La Raza were the ones voicing opposition to having photo ID's to vote. Of course they did not say outright that they wanted to encourage illegals to vote, but I am sure the Dem's are aware that illegals voting helps them not the Repub's.
The Dem's & La Raza Not Going To Like This!
- Thread starter madmag
- Start date
Yes. I know it doesn't sound great, but the fact is the Dem's, ACLU, & La Raza were the ones voicing opposition to having photo ID's to vote. Of course they did not say outright that they wanted to encourage illegals to vote, but I am sure the Dem's are aware that illegals voting helps them not the Repub's.
toybox99615
New member
pretty clear what your said
"It is a fact that most illegal aliens lean towards the entitlement programs and tolerance of crime as espoused by liberal Democrats. So, do the math, if 10% of the illegals found their way into a voting booth, and voted 90% Democrat, that would be 1-1.5 million votes falling to the Dems.
Makes it clear why Dems want lax enforcement of voting laws and Repubs want a higher standard, doesn't it?"
It sure look clear to me that you profess the illegals vote democrat. It goes along with Madmag's "I am sure the Dem's are aware that illegals voting helps them not the Repub's." Both of your are sure illegals vote democrat. Fact: an illeagal voting is voter fraud.
"It is a fact that most illegal aliens lean towards the entitlement programs and tolerance of crime as espoused by liberal Democrats. So, do the math, if 10% of the illegals found their way into a voting booth, and voted 90% Democrat, that would be 1-1.5 million votes falling to the Dems.
Makes it clear why Dems want lax enforcement of voting laws and Repubs want a higher standard, doesn't it?"
It sure look clear to me that you profess the illegals vote democrat. It goes along with Madmag's "I am sure the Dem's are aware that illegals voting helps them not the Repub's." Both of your are sure illegals vote democrat. Fact: an illeagal voting is voter fraud.
Playboypenguin wrote:
Maybe I've missed something, but isn't it less a RACIAL thing, and more of an ILLEGAL ALIEN thing? So the largest population of illegals currently happens to be hispanic, so what? If the law keeps illegal voting from happening, isn't it a good thing?
It doesn't say anything about keeping mexicans from voting BECAUSE they are mexican, but because they are not legal.....whats racist about that?
Maybe I've missed something, but isn't it less a RACIAL thing, and more of an ILLEGAL ALIEN thing? So the largest population of illegals currently happens to be hispanic, so what? If the law keeps illegal voting from happening, isn't it a good thing?
It doesn't say anything about keeping mexicans from voting BECAUSE they are mexican, but because they are not legal.....whats racist about that?
I will have to answer for myself, but I have to say I agree. I think you have it. I will stick with what I said. Illegals do vote (illegally) Democratic, and by definition illegals voting is fraud.
Here an intresting story dated 2007.
http://radio.woai.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=119078&article=2138213
Voter fraud has existed all of my life. Here's one list of convictions recently by State.
The SCOTUS decision is logical and was a long time coming.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...+list+of+voter+fraud&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
Can you imagine all the voter fraud incidents that were never discovered?!
All this Democrat talk about it being a racist case is ridiculous and naive.
It's historically been more prevalent with Democrats but it runs across the political spectrum. There's been many incidents of voter fraud ever since there has been voting in the USA.
The SCOTUS decision is logical and was a long time coming.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...+list+of+voter+fraud&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
Can you imagine all the voter fraud incidents that were never discovered?!
All this Democrat talk about it being a racist case is ridiculous and naive.
It's historically been more prevalent with Democrats but it runs across the political spectrum. There's been many incidents of voter fraud ever since there has been voting in the USA.
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Yeah, this certainly isn't a large list. If this list is in any way indicative of most voter fraud, it would seem the biggest problems are absentee ballots and illegal registrations.
Of course, there are no republicans on that list at all, so I highly doubt it's usefulness (not that I blame the site for being slightly biased in this regard)
This is as good of a place to put in a link to a Howto: Do Election Fraud. Seems like fraud is easiest for those currently in power (whomever that is at any given time)
Toybox -
I want you to follow the logic. The vast majority of illegals are Hispanic, up to 90% by some estimates. Hispanics go for Dems by 65% to 90%. (Reagan got 39% in 1984, an all time high. GWB got 34% in 2004, second place.)
So, you tell me, why is it illogical to assume that illegals would vote overwhelmingly for Dems?
Wake up and smell the salsa!
I want you to follow the logic. The vast majority of illegals are Hispanic, up to 90% by some estimates. Hispanics go for Dems by 65% to 90%. (Reagan got 39% in 1984, an all time high. GWB got 34% in 2004, second place.)
So, you tell me, why is it illogical to assume that illegals would vote overwhelmingly for Dems?
Wake up and smell the salsa!
Yes SecDec, that link is biased. I only showed it to let people know that voter fraud does happen and it is a "steady" problem over the decades`.
There's a guy in jail right now who tried to steal an election a few years back. It was a local ballot and he was a Republican candidate. Can't remember his name. There are other Republicans who have been convicted of voter fraud over the years.
This problem runs the gambit IMHO. Always has and always will. Making someone show photo ID is one way to help solve the problem IMHO. It certainly ain't going to cure it but it can help IMHO.
Yes, showing ID will definitely help prevent ID fraud at the polling station. What concerns me is that this is a) a tiny blip on the radar of election fraud while b) The law of unintended consequences comes into play.. There were 93 year old nuns in Indiana that were turned away at the polls. Was that fair to them? probably not.. Did the good (preventing some election fraud) outweigh the bad (the nuns couldn't vote)? Maybe, I don't know. I would like to hope so.
It is not the cure, but it may help. Have we determined exactly how it may hurt?
SecDef: I only know about Michigan so I'm pretty clueless relative to the whole USA.
In Michigan you can get a photo ID from the State easily. Proof of residency (utility bills, lease, property tax statement, income tax return, etc., and SSN.)
Alot of people get them here that don't drive.
Now, if you don't have a SSN you have a problem IIRC.
How to get a SSN:
So you can see SecDef, that illegals will have a hard time getting a photo ID from my State. They shouldn't be allowed to vote and, IMHO, that's a good thing. I don't see much of a downside here.
Why do you think the Democrats (i.e., currently) feel photo ID's are a bad thing? I basically think it is because they won't get as many people voting for their candidates?
Oh, political hacks like Harold Ickes will spin it this way and that way but I believe the real reason is it hurts their chances at the ballot box if we require photo ID's IMHO. His types will talk about the nuns but they probably could have gotten a photo ID easily in their State. They just didn't take the time to get one. Maybe they didn't know the rules?
The Democrats objections are just another form of dirty politics IMHO. Both parties engage in that - I think we can ALL agree on that one!?
But I definitely believe that this won't cure the voter fraud problem. Just one way to diminish it IMHO. I mean, I don't think we will ever abolish all voter fraud. We can only diminish it IMHO.
In Michigan you can get a photo ID from the State easily. Proof of residency (utility bills, lease, property tax statement, income tax return, etc., and SSN.)
Alot of people get them here that don't drive.
Now, if you don't have a SSN you have a problem IIRC.
How to get a SSN:
So you can see SecDef, that illegals will have a hard time getting a photo ID from my State. They shouldn't be allowed to vote and, IMHO, that's a good thing. I don't see much of a downside here.
Why do you think the Democrats (i.e., currently) feel photo ID's are a bad thing? I basically think it is because they won't get as many people voting for their candidates?
Oh, political hacks like Harold Ickes will spin it this way and that way but I believe the real reason is it hurts their chances at the ballot box if we require photo ID's IMHO. His types will talk about the nuns but they probably could have gotten a photo ID easily in their State. They just didn't take the time to get one. Maybe they didn't know the rules?
The Democrats objections are just another form of dirty politics IMHO. Both parties engage in that - I think we can ALL agree on that one!?
But I definitely believe that this won't cure the voter fraud problem. Just one way to diminish it IMHO. I mean, I don't think we will ever abolish all voter fraud. We can only diminish it IMHO.
I agree but how do we solve that one? I mean everyone has a political affiliation. That's a real tough nut to crack IMHO.
The party in the majority at the census date decides the shape of the districts don't they?
It's a big problem IMHO. But I don't have a clue on how to really solve it. Maybe diminish it by having "independent" people decide the shape of the districts but WHAT THE HECK is an "independent"?
JuanCarlos
New member
Computer algorithms generally don't have a political affiliation. If you actually put some effort (read: money) into it you could probably pay developers to improve on the shortest-splitline algorithm so that, for instance, it respects natural geographical boundaries. Or, using the same data they use for gerrymandering now you could fashion a computer algorithm that anti-gerrymanders...creates nothing but competitive districts.
The hard part is getting anybody to agree to do so.
JuanCarlos
New member
Still doesn't necessarily prevent gerrymandering, just changes the tone. "We'll give you a solid district in West Liberalopolis, if you give us an easy win out on Convervaburg and the surrounding farmland."
Wildalaska
Moderator
En la Zona Rosa...Adelitas
WildasihavebeentoldAlaska TM