Starbucks: no more open carry

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If Mr. Stache had walked in our local coffee den with that shotgun, he would have been disarmed at gunpoint and held for the cops to pick him up.

I'm sorry, but if that is open carry, it's deranged behavior.
 
If Mr. Stache had walked in our local coffee den with that shotgun, he would have been disarmed at gunpoint and held for the cops to pick him up.
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I looked at the pictures on page 2 of this thread too. I have to agree with your statements.. I also want to say that, "even in 1880s Tomestone Arizona, Wyatt Earp would have disarmed these guys."

You just don't go in for coffee, or a saloon, or a barbershop, or anywhere with your guns like that. I do not care if its 1880, 1980, or 2013.

For the people in the pics on page 2; well in the Wild West they would have been shot immediately on site, just for being nuts; nobody would have waited long enough, to find out if they were sane...
 
Mr Stache is pretty foolish for handling a weapon like he is ready to shoot it in a public place. That would definitely cause alarm. I doubt most of these people did that though.

There is always a bad seed. I am pretty sure Stache is regretting letting his eagerness and foolishness get the better of him.

If a guy walked into my shop holding his rifle or shotgun like that, I would be a little worried too. I think Starbucks has been very respectful in displaying their opinion. I don't blame them for not wanting to be in the middle of this. I feel bad for them that even though they don't want this kind of attention, they are getting it.

For the record: If memory serves me right, Wyatt Earp was a deputy who was enforcing bloomberg type gun laws on behalf of his brother Virgil. Also, I think Earp was known as not a very good person. I am sure he would have gladly confiscated your guns for you.

Once again as far as the rifle open carry goes. There are Texans doing it because the law will not allow its citizens to open carry a pistol. It is called civil disobedience. Those Texans flocked to Starbucks because they felt welcome there to do it. Starbucks has clarified their position and I will respect them and their freedom to do so.

Also you have to ask the government for permission to carry concealed in Texas. Let me repeat that, you cannot carry open, and you have to ask the government for permission to carry concealed when the government is told by the Bill of Rights that they cannot tell you that you can't carry. Infringing is infringing is infringing. Having to ask the government for permission to participate in a right that is already yours is infringing.
 
It is called civil disobedience. Those Texans flocked to Starbucks because they felt welcome there to do it.
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There are two things that trouble me here. First off, when did Starbucks ever tell folks they were welcome to carry rifles there?

Second, maybe they'll go somewhere else besides Starbucks next time. They're still doing this somewhere, and that business will also ban guns. Then another, and so on.

I'm a gun person. I do a heck of a lot of work towards furthering the 2A. But I have to tell you, this just isn't the way to go about it.
 
I believe they felt welcome there because they were calling the Starbucks locations before going and asking if it would be okay for them to open carry there rifles in there. That seems pretty respectful to me. There will always be a Mr. Stache though who does something stupid. Everybody knows that guy!
 
I think Starbucks is entitled to ban open carry in their stores. It's private property, pure and simple. If a stranger showed up at your house with an open carry what would you do? Would you assume he's a 'good guy' or would you politely ask him not to open carry on your property? I think it's rude and disrespectful to openly display a firearm in public, especially around non-gun owning folks. If you're wondering why there's such a stigma attached to gun ownership in this country it's because of instances like this. We don't live in the Wild West anymore. I'm fine with CCW but open carry is purely for intimidation, whether you admit to it or not.

Coincidentally, I was listening MPR this morning and they interviewed one of the Open Carry advocates and he used the word 'discrimination' to describe Starbuck's ban. That's right, he feels discriminated against because Starbucks won't allow gun owning patrons to open carry on their property. This type of publicity can only turn into bad publicity for gun owners
 
A few idiot wielding firearms publicly, un-holstered like Mr. Stache up there ruined things for the rest of us. I support OC, but prefer to CC. Starbucks could have banned all firearms, even ones that are concealed making everyone CC'ing a TRESSPASSER. They didn't even ban OC, but are asking we don't do it. I don't get to Starbucks much, but I will respect their request.
 
As for MPR, I hardly think that Starbucks' decision is discrimination. They didn't even ban open carry, they simply asked that people don't do it to avoid people like Mr.Stache. That's a pretty reasonable request in my opinion.
 
As for MPR, I hardly think that Starbucks' decision is discrimination. They didn't even ban open carry, they simply asked that people don't do it to avoid people like Mr.Stache. That's a pretty reasonable request in my opinion.
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agreed
 
A few idiot wielding firearms publicly, un-holstered like Mr. Stache up who ruined things for the rest of us.
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It's not Mr. Stache who ruined it. It's all of us.

It's the folks who cheered him on. It's the folks who liked the Facebook posts and YouTube videos about stirring things up at Starbucks. It's everyone who posted "nuts to you, I'm carrying in Starbucks anyway" on the company's Facebook and Twitter feeds last night. It's every one of us who didn't call these people out.

I got my ration of crap from trying to talk sense to those people. I wish I could take some satisfaction in being proven right.

If you guys want to take a look at the mainstream media coverage (ie. something beside Joe Bob's Gun Bl0g of Badassitude), you'll see that the most space is being given by magazines like Forbes. That's right, business magazines. The culture watches Starbucks the way they watch Apple.

If Starbucks bans guns (which I fully expect), we're going to see many other businesses following suit.
 
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Posted by Tom Servo: It's not Mr. Stache who ruined it. It's all of us.

It's the folks who cheered him on. It's the folks who liked the Facebook posts and YouTube videos about stirring things up at Starbucks. It's everyone who posted "nuts to you, I'm carrying in Starbucks anyway" on the company's Facebook and Twitter feeds last night. It's every one of us who didn't call these people out.

I got my ration of crap from trying to talk sense to those people. I wish I could take some satisfaction in being proven right.
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I could not agree more.
 
Mr Stache is an inept fool that is wanting nothing but attention and is doing our gun rights more harm then good with his actions.

I haven't read through all the posts and if this has been covered please forgive me.

Having been to plenty of pistol shooting events in which OC was the norm, it does not bother me a bit. Too, having been a member of some sort of shooting organization involving shotguns as well as hunted with shotguns most of my life , I'll go further to say that it doesn't bother me if guys are walking around with shotguns in that enviroment. It's expected.
But even at every 'gun club' I've belonged to in which it was obviously the norm and no surprise that firearms were going to be present, there were/are strictly enforced rules not allowing open handling of firearms in the club house. You parked your shotgun in a rack usually posted outside the entry door to the club house and if you had a pistol strapped on, it stayed holstered. Inside the 'club house' or club 'coffe shop' was not the proper area to be fondling firearms.
There were/are obvious safety reason's for those rules.
Again, these were gun clubs in which firearms were expected by all present and the sweet sound and smell of firearms going off was enjoyed by all as well.

But, if I'm relaxing in a coffee shop early in the morning with nothing but the smell of coffee brewing and donuts being made and some moron comes strolling through the front door with a stupid grin on his face openly waving either his pistol or shotgun , my first thoughts are not going to be pleasant.
Especially if my wife, kids or G-kids happen to be with me.
And extremely unpleasant should this fool come close to sweeping one of us before we could get out of the place.

It's one thing for someone to be OC'ing in public with a holstered firearm but a totally different story to have your firearm out, in hand, fondling the thing and getting your pic. taken as you stroll through a public place.

The old cliche "that we are sometimes our own worst enemy" was stated because of actions just like Mr Stache performed.

He's an idiot of the first degree and I simply cannot blame Starbucks for their response.

Edited to add:

After further glancing at all the pages of this thread, I find I owe 'Mr. Stache' an apology.
I referred to him earlier in this post as an inept, attention starved fool, a moron and an idiot that is doing more harm then good for our gun rights.
Did I also mention he's very self centered and by his actions, is showing possible signs for some unknown reason of having the abnormal need to be the center of attention and possibly wants to show everyone he's very manly cause he owns a gun?
If not I should have.

But I owe him an apology for singleing him out cause I had not seen the pics. of the others just like him doing the same thing.

Just makes ya shake your head in disgust.
 
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Tom Servo is right on the mark.

I will say this: The open carry movement/community is doing more harm to gun rights than the mass shootings that have occurred and will yet occur. There are places where OC is appropriate; but, it's not in downtown/urban settings.
 
If Starbucks bans guns (which I fully expect), we're going to see many other businesses following suit.
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This is what I expect as well. I fear this will provide ammunition for the media and anti gun advocates to put down gun owners even more. I have no doubt that they will do everything they can to use this to their advantage and continue to promote gun free zones.
 
Look at the two handgun guys - a simple slip and the finger seeks the trigger. Are those barrels pointed in a manner that they are sure no one is in the line of fire? Of course, not.
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Those guys are sitting in a pickup truck drinking Starbucks coffee, not inside the store. Just sayin'.


I'd like to know what those idiots were thinking when they decided that carrying ARs and riot shotguns in a place of business was a good idea. I think everything would have been fine if people would have just left their guns in the holster. But noooo, let's all go in there and wave our pistols around like durned fools and take pictures. When that gets old we'll go get the scariest looking shotguns and rifles we can find and carry them in there so everyone knows for sure that we're ignorant. I mean Starbucks won't mind if we make their store look like an Hezbollah rally, right??

In light of all that idiocy, I can understand why they would issue a statement. I think it would have been smarter to say "we'd really prefer that you carry concealed in our stores." As it is, I would treat them as I would any other business; i.e. Their corporate opinions mean nothing to me, and my weapon is concealed. They are there to provide a service, nothing more. If they lawfully ban weapons and make my life more difficult by having to take my weapon off, I'll find someone else to provide that service. It's really that simple.
 
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Ben Towe said:
It still makes my blood boil that these mall ninja "grassroots movement" morons have brought this about.
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It is unfortunate that they alone have introduced incivility to this discussion.
 
Starbucks is in the business of hospitality. They want everyone to feel comfortable visiting their coffee shops and there is a significant portion of our population that is not comfortable with openly carried firearms.
Before reading this thread, I had not seen those pictures of the Starbucks events, and after seeing them I can understand why reasonable people would be uncomfortable visiting a Starbucks during one of those rallies.

I own a business and I am pro-gun. That does not mean that my property is available for open carry rallies. I am here to help animals and their owners by practicing veterinary medicine. I don't post political signs in my yard, even for local elections, because I want people to feel comfortable coming here and be assured that my attention is on them, their pet, and their problem. Starbucks is there to be a comfortable place for anyone to come and have a cup of overpriced coffee. To my mind, the people who used the coffee shops as sites for their pro-gun rallies commandeered personal property for their own purposes. The people who politicized Starbucks did so against the will of Starbucks and it backfired. I personally think Starbucks is being fairly graceful about it compared to what they could do.
 
Tom Servo said:
It's the folks who cheered him on. It's the folks who liked the Facebook posts and YouTube videos about stirring things up at Starbucks. It's everyone who posted "nuts to you, I'm carrying in Starbucks anyway" on the company's Facebook and Twitter feeds last night. It's every one of us who didn't call these people out.

I got my ration of crap from trying to talk sense to those people. I wish I could take some satisfaction in being proven right.
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Tom, and everyone,

If I may dare go a bit further...

There is a group of people, or should I say firearm owners, that instead of trying to work to improve things for everyone, they just want their 5 seconds of fame, or internet pictures, etc, etc... Its all about them. If you talk to them, they will tell you if you listen closely.

I am EXTREMELY tired of listening to many of those type guys... To try to improve the image of firearm owners I try to go out, and do things around the community whenever I can. An old widow needs her grass mowed, no problem, gives me a chance to try to talk to her kids and grand kids and maybe invite them to the range. See a bit of trash on the road somewhere? Get some of my friends at the range to help pick it up one sat morning before we shoot. Notice someone that needs a hand with something else, just offer and help. In the past whenever I tried to invite some of the OC people I have met locally, guess what type of reception I get? I typically get cussed out by them because I don't support their "view" and that somehow I "am not doing anything for my rights." Bull (expletive deleted, forgive me)!

I cant find a way to reason with those fools. I say fool, because, well, its a good description. While I do recognize and appreciate the rights of the second amendment, there are more rights beyond that one and we must work and find a good balance when we are out in public. I believe I will start doing more of what Tom suggest, instead of just shaking my head and walking off.
 
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