Starbucks: no more open carry

[BobCat45]

dakota.potts your Open Letter was well written and to the point.

I do not know who reads that Open Letter website, or whether anyone from Starbucks will see your letter, but one can hope.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

That is inapposite, since it isn't Starbucks policy that arms are not allowed.

Oh, I misspoke... It won't be my "policy" either, since I won't have them arrested, I'm just going to make it publicly known that I don't want anyone over 55 in my shop.

That's totally cool, right? Very Pro-55 and over.

I mean, I won't post it in the store and I'll still serve them, I'm just going to make public announcements and press releases that I don't want them in my store.

I'll leave it to the folks on the AARP (and similar) discussion forums to talk about it enough that everyone knows it's what I want. I'll bet a lot of them will make the case that I'm not being Anti-55 and over, since I still serve them.

I'll just rely on attrition. The word will be out there and slowly spread. More and more over 55 will hear about it and most will stop coming in, because that's what most folks do when they know they're not wanted.

It's a win-win for me. The folks who've had to wait in line while the old people counted out exact change will be happier that less old people are coming in AND I won't have protests and boycotts by the old people because I'm not being Anti-Old People. Totally cool.

 

[zukiphile]

It's a win-win for me.

That's the point of public relations.

I'll just rely on attrition. The word will be out there and slowly spread. More and more over 55 will hear about it and most will stop coming in, because that's what most folks do when they know they're not wanted.

Attrition is an unlikely marketing strategy.

 

[Brian Pfleuger]

Someone really ought to tell all those groups that were mad at Geno's in Philly for putting up signs that asked people to speak English when ordering that they shouldn't have been mad at him either.

Why would they be angry? He wasn't turning anyone away, so it wasn't his "policy" that folks speak English when ordering. Since it wasn't his policy, no one could accuse him of anything, right?

 

[MLeake]

At the moment, it's about as consequential as a request to not wear Che Guevara T-shirts - which I seriously doubt would ever be made, even though such shirts offend me.

Is Starbuck's notably less neutrally gun-friendly? Yes. Does that make sense, given recent shenanigans? Yes.

However, given that in many states "no firearms" signs carry the force of law; and, given that Starbuck's does not appear to be opting to post such signs - it seems to me this is their way of appeasing the vocal antis with a token gesture, while trying to ask the RKBAs to please exercise discretion.

 

[FoghornLeghorn]

The open carry statement was hardly innocuous. Guns out of holsters. Long guns in a dining establishment. These were pictures taken of the open carriers, by open carriers. Ridiculous.

"Hey, look at me! I have a gun! Cool!"

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/320601935/m/1940063333/p/1

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=729101

 

[Tom Servo]

Foghorn, the problem is this: the people doing this stuff are so politically tone-deaf, they don't see a problem with that behavior.

I had one guy regale me with a story about how he took his gun out to show to a woman at Starbucks. I asked him if he was aware that he was alarming people around him, and he responded, "nobody said anything."

Sure, nobody said anything because there was a guy waving a gun around.

I suppose I could walk in with a chainsaw and claim "heck, I need it for work." That doesn't mean people aren't going to get fidgety. Yet there's a selfish subset of gun owners who refuse to see things through the eyes of others, and they're the ones spoiling it for everybody.

When I call them on it, I get the old "it's mah riiight" response.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Sorry, but until they stop being wishywashy and actually make a decision, I'll continue to exercise my rights under the law and according to my conscience.

I never participated in any of these open carry "appreciation days" because I saw them to be counterproductive.

I have a LOT less respect for Starbucks now than I did before.

What they are trying to do (what they've done all along, really) is straddle the fence and offend no one so that everyone will keep buying their coffee.

They're still trying to straddle the fence. Sorry, but I don't intend to smash my ghoolies trying to straddle it with them.

I have to agree with Mike. I will continue to go to Starbucks whenever I want, seldom as it is, and to carry my firearm as usual. I have never OC'd there and have no intention to start as an in your face gesture. Therefore, I suspect that there will never be an issue. Far as I'm concerned they should have put out a request to never have any kind of political demonstration, or "appreciation" type of celebration that could be construed as political. Signs could have been posted as such, but no, instead they seem to fall on the side of the antis, which has led me to lose a lot of respect for them I once had. And "asshattery" is sooooo bad when it's coming from our side, but nobody seems to notice it other than us when it's being projected from the others, which is 100% of the time.

 

[Fishing_Cabin]

Thanks for posting the photos....Some I had seen, but others I had not.

I do sympathize with starbucks... The few I have been in (not a big coffee drinker myself) it seemed like most were early 20 something college student type employees. Nothing wrong with that at all. But, when you couple that with the idea of forcing them to be dragged in to a political debate and demonstration, by both sides, I do feel it is wrong. The employees I saw working at starbucks in the past looked more like, except for their immediate work, that they were more concerned and interested in passing their biology or chemistry midterm. Most businesses also typically don't let employees take a political stand at work either.

I also don't really get the whole 2 dollar bill, and also the cards that people want to pass out about lost business for banning certain groups. To be once it has gone that far (which starbucks is basically at that point to) its time to admit that its probably a lost hope due to the fringe element that's always testing the boundaries.

 

[MLeake]

Stevie-Ray, IIRC the Starbuck's near Sandy Hook did specifically request no political demonstrations; I believe Starbuck's corporate reiterated that request.

That didn't work, so now we get this.

 

[Glenn E. Meyer]

My kid worked in Starbucks in her youth. It was near my office. Sometimes I would visit. So if I'm sitting there, my kid is behind the counter and a guy walks in with an unslung AR or Shotgun (as in the pictures) - what should I do?

What would you do? It probably would be different from jumping up and yelling - Hip, Hip Hurrah for the 2nd Amendment.

 

[dajowi]

"Basically we should be good ambassadors as we live our normal lives "

There are many who do not think that open carrying a firearm is consistent with "a normal life." They don't associate open carry with normal people. What they do associate with open carry is fear, intimidation and victimization. Open carry is legal in my state but I'd never do so...concealed carry negates law enforcement and public hassle.

 

[SHE3PDOG]

this policy change represents a sea change in American culture, which is finally shifting away from allowing guns in public places.

This is what bothers me the most about Starbucks' decision. I do not believe that they intended their to be political repercussions, just the opposite, but their move seems to have garnered respect from anti gunners who are now heralding this as a victory.

I honestly think that they just want what is best for their business, and politicallylay charged rallies pushed them toward this decision. Perhaps they would have been better off simply stating that they do not want open carry in their stores. Concealed is concealed, but they are asking for customers to keep their weapons out of the store.

Unfortunately, the letter has already been released, and I'm sure any changes to it now would be considered flaky by both parties of the debate. With their current position on guns in their stores being changed, I fear other companies may follow suit, and that could not end well for us.

 

[TimSr]

Its so sad to see gun owners use tactics that have failed for liberals in the past. "In your face" politicing will turn off supporters and will never win over new ones.

I despise gun owners who make us all look like irresponsible trigger happy, in your face jerks. I am turned off by pictures of people carrying long guns of any kind into a business establishment. Its as obnoxious, rude, and in your face. Unholstering weapons should get you tossed out. The weapons were on display to offend and intimidate, or to incite confrontation. Its irresponsible and projects the very image of us the antis would love to assign to us. There are a lot of valid reasons for concealed carry. There are not many situations in which open carry is a better option.

The NRA ran some articles years ago about how to present yourself and your views through the media. Maybe they should reprint.

If someone is not dug in with their opinion on gun issues, shoving your gun collection in their face is far more likely to alienate them than to convert or convince them. We fought for concealed carry for years. Use discretion and exercise it!

 

[dajowi]

I can understand wanting to reward Starbucks for it's stance on open carry. But instead of doing it quietly by maybe buying two coffees a week instead of the usual one they created a circus. By proposing a national Starbucks Appreciate Day they only highlighted the issue, generating protests and demonstrations on both sides of the open carry debate.

Fortunately for all involved the only people injured during this event were the open carry proponents. They've shot themselves in the foot by this action.

 

[Tom Servo]

Stevie-Ray, IIRC the Starbuck's near Sandy Hook did specifically request no political demonstrations; I believe Starbuck's corporate reiterated that request..

They did. Then folks decided it would be a good idea to show "appreciation" by openly carrying AR-15's there.

In Sandy Hook. Yep.

I've a strong suspicion it was THAT incident, not the Navy Yard shooting, that brought about this policy.

If that's how we treat our friends...

 

[KyJim]

As always, having the right to do something doesn't mean it's right to do it. Those who participated in open carry demonstrations in Starbucks had to know it would make some people uncomfortable. Heck, it would make me uncomfortable from a safety standpoint to have a bunch of people I didn't know handling handguns and rifles like a bunch of kids with a new toy. It's asking an awful lot of a business to take the heat from either side in a political debate when it just wants to remain neutral. I suspect that things will be "back to normal" in a short while if the yahoos out there don't make it a point to demonstrate the "no ban" policy of Starbucks.

 

[MLeake]

Again, to me at least, the fact that Starbuck's is not posting their stores sends the hidden message, "we are not taking sides, just keep us out of it please." IE, conceal and be discreet.

It's academic to me, as I rarely go to Starbuck's.

 

[JimDandy]

Mike in almost back to back posts you say:

I never participated in any of these open carry "appreciation days" because I saw them to be counterproductive.

and

You're damned right I'd bring a gun.

It's the same counter-productive problem.

Shoes are not welcome on my carpet. Smoking is not welcome in my car. Guns are not welcome in my store.

If we chose to be there, we are guests there, and it's also our responsibility to be good guests. While most, if not all, of us here didn't participate we as a whole have behaved badly, and paid the price for it.

ETA:

Again, to me at least, the fact that Starbuck's is not posting their stores sends the hidden message, "we are not taking sides, just keep us out of it please." IE, conceal and be discreet.

If the memo said the open carrying of firearms, or something similar I'd agree with you. But it says weapons, without reference to the manner of carry. They have asked us not to bring them in. As such, the next time I get a coffee after shooting I'll be standing on the sidewalk outside their store, outside their seating area on what I will think is the public area of the mall, and wave at their staff, beckoning one outside, place an order, give them my rewards card to go inside and swipe, then deliver my coffee. It'll be as ridiculous as people on both sides have made it while I'm carrying a firearm, and respecting their wishes.

 

[Tom Servo]

Those who participated in open carry demonstrations in Starbucks had to know it would make some people uncomfortable.

From the conversations I've had with them, it would appear that they want to make people uncomfortable. Whether it's a giddy thrill at freaking out the squares or a legitimate desire to get people thinking, it backfires either way.