Starbucks: no more open carry

Status
Not open for further replies.
From the pictures, a skilled gun owner would not handle the guns in a public place in such a manner.

Look at the two handgun guys - a simple slip and the finger seeks the trigger. Are those barrels pointed in a manner that they are sure no one is in the line of fire? Of course, not.

Such behavior is disgraceful.

We unslung our long arms facing down range. Where is down range in Starbucks.
 
Since I have said the things I did in my letter, I have been accused of being a plant and an "agent provocateur" simply for suggesting that open carry demonstrations on the property of a company who specifically requested a peaceful situation were a bad idea.

This reminds me of a situation we had in Florida. Here, you can open carry if going to or from or during hunting, fishing, shooting, and a couple other exceptions. People open carry fish as a form of demonstration and a good time is had by all.

One group decided one day they were going to park a mile from their fishing spot and open carry there (I believe there may have been long guns) involved.

It nearly cost Florida Carry, Inc. a sponsored bill because the blame was placed on them for an unrelated group.

I believe in open carry, and that it is a just cause, but that's not the way to do it.
 
I have to agree that those pictures are unnerving, and those people probably didn't help to advance our cause at all; if anything, they hurt it. I know if someone walked into Starbucks with an unslung long gun or unholstered handgun, I'd be pretty alarmed. Regardless of their intentions, that is simply not an appropriate way to carry a gun in a place like that even if it is "unloaded".
 
dakota.potts said:
Since I have said the things I did in my letter, I have been accused of being a plant and an "agent provocateur" simply for suggesting that open carry demonstrations on the property of a company who specifically requested a peaceful situation were a bad idea.

This reminds me of a situation we had in Florida. Here, you can open carry if going to or from or during hunting, fishing, shooting, and a couple other exceptions. People open carry fish as a form of demonstration and a good time is had by all.

One group decided one day they were going to park a mile from their fishing spot and open carry there (I believe there may have been long guns) involved.

It nearly cost Florida Carry, Inc. a sponsored bill because the blame was placed on them for an unrelated group.

I believe in open carry, and that it is a just cause, but that's not the way to do it.
Click to expand...

You'll get that a lot.

There is a segment of firearms owners for which Open Carry is almost literally a cult. It is the only acceptable carry method, under every circumstance, and anyone who would dare claim otherwise is an Enemy of The Cause.

These are the folks that open carry AR-15s to a StarBucks in Newtown, these are the folks that ended unloaded open carry in CA and these are the folks that open carry a kydex sheathed AR in Nashville, TN.

They treat you like an enemy because anyone who uses wisdom, common sense and discretion IS their enemy.

And you should be proud of it.
 
Actually, Jim Dandy, Starbucks IS my store, because I own more than a few shares of stock in the corporation.

I don't have an ownership share in your carpet or your car. That's private property, not a publicly traded corporation. I suspect more than a few people in this conversation are the same.

There IS a difference.

A significant difference.

If Starbucks wants to set corporate-wide POLICY (and once again, we're not talking about policy here, we're talking about a wishy washy "we'd LIKE you to do this, but we're not going to do anything to enforce it"), one that has a basis in the laws of the states in which they operate, then we're talking a different matter entirely.

And finally, for those who have not read all of my comments in this thread, open carry in Starbucks in the manner that it was done was completely counterproductive.

But, when I carry a gun, concealed means concealed.
 
Folks, I'm deleting irrelevant political rants on topics not related directly to this issue. Take the hint, next time will be infractions.

Got to go now but don't go there. Stay on topic.
 
This reminds me of a situation we had in Florida. Here, you can open carry if going to or from or during hunting, fishing, shooting, and a couple other exceptions. People open carry fish as a form of demonstration and a good time is had by all.
Click to expand...

I suspect most of the "all" is ONLY the open carry crowd. I personally think you need to keep guns concealed in an urban environment. Most Starbucks are in urban environments.

I seldom go to Starbucks because their coffee is too expensive for my tastes. I'll meet someone there as a business thing, but other than that I tend to go to the local gas station for my coffee or make it at home and carry it with me.

I say is keep the guns concealed and you'll be just fine at Starbucks. Open carry and they will call the police and they will make your life uncomfortable.
 
22 rim-fire,

If all is handled respectfully, people in most areas are largely OK with an open gun. Even on the Jacksonville pier. I wouldn't try it in the middle of Tallahassee.

Here's my opinion: In that case, it's what we think should be a public right on public property that belongs to all of us. Someone else's feelings are not the limit of my rights.

I am part of the group because I feel it's wrong and unconstitutional that an 18 year old such as myself cannot legally carry concealed. I also feel it's wrong to have to beg the state for a license to carry, but that's a whole other story.

Unlicensed, constitutional open carry is the only option people aged 18-20 have unless you're in the military. We do it with a goal in mind to raise awareness that bad guys don't display their weapons and to try to affect change against something we feel is unconstitutional.

The difference with the Starbucks story is that they were doing it in a venue owned by a private corporation who specifically requested they not do that. They respected us enough to allow us to do what we felt was right and we spat in their face.

To me, that's a far cry from open carrying because it's the way you feel best able to defend yourself. You're no one to tell me to carry concealed and I'm no one to tell you to carry open. We all get to make that choice. In this case, it really wasn't about open carrying. It was about media attention.
 
To those who think open carry is a bad thing, I ask you this:
Why do cops do it if it is unnecessary or inappropriate?
Does the Bill of Rights guarantee you to not feel uncomfortable around other law abiding citizens?
(I know that the Bill of Rights guarantees me the right to carry a firearm and shall not be infringed by the government)
I am pro open carry and pro concealed carry. Do whatever you want. It is your right that people have fought and died for to ensure that you can participate in that right. You can think I am stupid all you want for preferring open carry (it is your first amendment to tell me so if you wish). I am pretty confident that most people around the time the Bill of Rights was written open carried.

The Texas group that is open carrying their rifles in public are doing so in protest to the Texas government for violating our rights to carry our pistols in whatever manner we please. Several cops have wrongfully arrested citizens for doing everything legal and several people are angry. Texas has only left citizens with one option for open carry, and that is to carry your rifle. I don't walk around with my rifle because I would rather carry my pistol, but if a rifle is the only choice your tyrannical government has given you, then by all means do so. I have a chl, but open carry causes me a lot less frustration with comfort and clothing options (especially in the summer).

I don't recommend carrying your defense tool of choice unslung or unholstered, but that is your choice, not mine. How many people in the early 1800s walked around with their rifles unslung? Did they put slings on their rifles?

I think starbucks coffee is overpriced and so I don't go there, but I respect them for not cowering to either group and simply saying "we sell coffee, not politics".

Those of you who disagree with open carry but are pro 2nd Amendment, you have to accept us participating in our rights, or we will be divided and lose this battle against those who would like to see or Bill of Rights disappear.

Thanks to those who took the time to read my post.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Virginia allows open carry, but I've never once seen a person open carry in a Starbucks. I have no need to open carry in Starbucks.. In the event that I become a ranch worker and Starbucks sets up shop near my ranch I'll might whine about it this cow poke having to take off his guns to get a cup of joe, but until then I'm cool with it.
 
Posted by Vurtle: To those who think open carry is a bad thing, I ask you this:
Why do cops do it if it is unnecessary or inappropriate?
Click to expand...
Both, for uniformed officers on duty.

Off duty and plain-clothed officers do not carry openly.

Those of you who disagree with open carry but are pro 2nd Amendment, you have to accept us participating in our rights, or we will be divided and lose this battle against those who would like to see or Bill of Rights disappear.
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "participating in our rights"?

Do you seriously believe that those who have provoked the reaction we have been discussing here have helped our cause?
 
Vurtle said:
...Those of you who disagree with open carry but are pro 2nd Amendment, you have to accept us participating in our rights,...
Click to expand...
This is not about open carry vs. concealed carry. This is about --

  1. ill conceived open carry demonstrations for political purposes;

  2. unsafe, inappropriate exhibitionist gun handling in public (see posts 46 and 61);

  3. and pushing a disinterested, neutral third part to take an action which does not reflect well on gun owners.

I continue to be dismayed by the failure of so many in the RKBA community to recognize the importance of positively influencing public opinion or to have any real clue about how to determine how to go about doing that.
 
I have made my choice, I will respect Starbucks wishes and not carry in there store ,concealed or openly. I will also spend my money someplace else.
 
Vurtle, let's take another look at Mr. Stache here:

skitched-20130809-172049.jpg


When someone walks in carrying a pump shotgun and unslings it from his shoulder, what am I to presume? I guarantee he swept other patrons with it in the process, and that kind of provocative behavior is a sign of one of two things:

  • impending violence
  • horrific irresponsibility bordering on emotional instability

I know more than a few folks, myself among them, who would have immediately assumed he was a threat. It could get ugly.

Furthermore, normal people don't do this. Normal people are going to react very badly to such behavior. I shouldn't have to tell anybody that. The fact that I have had to do so shows the presence of a very real problem.
 
just my opinion. Someone politely asks me to respect their premises while respecting my rights I'm going to oblige. I can still carry concealed seems reasonable to me. This isn't the same as a business that took a stand against 2A rights but has walked the line to respect both sides. Its quite obvious the only thing gained by continuing to open carry into Starbucks is they are going to establish a no gun policy, kinda like shooting yourself in the foot one more win for the other side.
 
Since I have said the things I did in my letter, I have been accused of being a plant and an "agent provocateur" simply for suggesting that open carry demonstrations on the property of a company who specifically requested a peaceful situation were a bad idea.
Click to expand...
Look at the people in the pictures posted on this thread and then ask yourself this question:

What effect is logic, clear thinking and common sense going to have on those who think that what the people are doing in the pictures is a good idea?

You can't use logic and common sense to reach people who can't/won't/don't think clearly, who reject or can't recognize logic and common sense. Your comments will reach those who can be reached--don't worry about the rest--they're a lost cause. The best we can hope for is that they won't do too much damage in their misguided quest.
 
Howard Schultz is an interesting, and extremely bright fella. He made his money the hard way ie not because he was handed billions with his fancy tech startup; because when Schultz bought Starbucks ( they had maybe five stores at the time ), Schultz worked behind those counters, his sweat was no different from what his employees do today.

I happen to like Starbucks a lot, and the problem is definitely not their gun policy. The problem is: in America today, we are restricting the freedoms of others, rather than focusing on treating those who might be mentally ill. We have trillions of dollars, doing work in other countries; what good could we have done here at home?

Schultz probably realizes that, "its going to be a long time before the mentally ill receive the medical care they need." This is a scary proposition when you have a country who's people have the right to arm themselves. That is just the plain truth.

I can understand, and accept what Starbucks has done.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
In other news, gun owners have decided repay Schultz's "respectful request" by publicly swearing they'll ignore it. Way to take the high road, guys.
Click to expand...

That is just completely idiotic and counter productive. There is no reason for it, but as others havever said, you can't beat logic into someone that thinks these actions are a good idea.

Vurtle, I'm not against open carry, but unholstered or unslung weapins does not jive well with me, and I would have immediately considered anyone with a long gun's butt stock in their shoulder a serious threat.

The manual of arms has changed greatly from the 1800's until now. Back then people didn't practice trigger or muzzle disciplin; those concepts are relatively new. On top of that, the culture we live in has changed wildly. Guns are perceived as a tool of destruction now rather than protection.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top