Socialized Medicine

Seems like the major issue here is how your tax dollars get spent. People don't want a bite taken out of their paycheck for some service or program that they never benefit from and the gov. wastes more money quibbling about and monitoring how the taxes are spent than on the actual programs. So how about a system to end all systems? When you do your taxes you fill out a form (hey, what's one more form at this point?) that allocates specifically what you want say, 40% of your tax dollars to go toward. Big Star Trek fan? Send it all to the space program. Got 7 kids in public school? Check off education. So on, so forth. Then we'll see how many people really want to pay for someone elses health care or continue to fund stupid wars. Gov. want's taxpayers to fund new plan X? They have no power to do anything beyond getting plan X on that list and see how much money rolls in. As it stands now if the gov. want's to spend money on something they get a bunch of elected reps, each with his own agenda, together to vote. Vote is "yes" and the will of the majority of the Politicians is done. Vote is "no" and the tax cost to reach that decision was wasted. Seems so simple, just like direct internet voting instead of our outdated electoral college system.
 
Sounds like this system we call a Republic is disagreeable to you. You do realize the perils of a strict Democracy right? I won't veer off topic but if you interested a thread on the topic may be quite revealing to you.

Also noticed that you subscribe to the thining hat you should be recieving benefits from the Government. True or no?
 
Better yet is a flat tax and the ability to invest our own money in retirement funds.

Everyone would pay fewer taxes, and if the townies want to smoke and drink themselves to death, it doesn't come out of my end or some Canadian hockey player's.

But I would pass a law demanding that a toothless inbred townie would not be allowed to smoke near the door of an ER service.

They have no money to get the shale pumped out of their lungs anyway and I have to breathe the filth as I enter with money to spend.
 
Bushido, I am the perfect example of this system...
I have not paid a shiny penny in income tax or SSI for 5 years... Nope I never worked in them years YMMV... this national health care has NOTHING to do with folks not wanting to give up income! Heck I could be fat cattin' better than many cuz i am poor? No sir... Show me one I mean I MEAN PROOF SHOW ME... One single guberment agency that works... No oversight... just works! None exist! Not even on a state level! Feds are not here for the state citizens! If'n they wuz we wouldn't need several thousand elected politicians!
Brent
 
Tourist, My lungs gotta be worth a ton of money! I got pounds of shale in there!
As for the flat tax... Forbes was a GOOBER! Flat out 10% as was stated in the bible... "give unto ceaser his tenth" No loop holes what so ever! NONE! boss sends in a piece of paper and gives you one... Not his job to with hold... You send it in if not you are a tax evader! If workers comp weren't so high I woulda been taxed... i painted the hand rails in a paint booth and baked them in a nice oven... these hand rails go on high rise condos. Why should my boss pay 60% of $12 per hour for my worker comp? It is a damn shame when it is lucrative for a guy making over a million per year gross to "EAT" 6 guys worth of pay as cash payout so he ain't gotta buy WC ins he has never had a claim on... He races a 70,000 dollar race car cuz we willingly accept the risks of our job...
FEDs can KMA!
Brent
 
hogdogs said:
Tourist, My lungs gotta be worth a ton of money! I got pounds of shale in there!
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There you go! There's the pioneer spirit that made this country great!

Hotdogs has no deep-pockets insurance, but when the time comes he'll sell off-shore drilling rights to his bronchial tubes!

Welcome *cough* to the *cough* Texaco family *cough, cough*

Hey, Hots, you gotta stop the suicide-sticks, bro. I don't want to be the only biker here educating these younger goofs. How can only one of us lead an entire sea of Prospects?
 
What people want is FREE health care provided by the government. Even Medicare isn't free. The state of Maine passed Universal Health care in 2003 and had about 131,000 uninsured. The plan was based upon your ability to pay. The plan has around 18,000 participants now. Most of them already had insurance but switched to the state plan. Maine still has about 126,000 uninsured.

So lets be Honest and say that the folks want to pay nothing for government health care.

Canada doesn't have a national health care plan per se... each province and territory administers their own plan and people may have to pay some for services that others in different areas dont.
 
:D:D:D
Funny chit there! if I quit I am done... As long as i smoke sooner or later a dem will make pres.... Than I can wait for the big ol' check! I will be considered a dumb redneck (we already knew that) and they will call me a chump for being exploited by the "baccer companies" and I will finally get that acreage and home my family deserves (according to the 'merikan dream...)
Brent
 
I work in a benefits center for the local blue cross blue shield and it's the employer that selects the benefits package for you not the insurance carrier itself.

the employer decides what they wanna pay for you and you get package "A"for "X" amount of money. it probably wasn't covered in the benefits package and a predetermination or appeal wasn't handled in a timely manner.
 
As for me i was fartin' thru silk drawers with BC&BS... dang no co pay or nothing! Merita Bread asked for sigs... I said whoa there big feller I never agreed to this and HOW MUCH... the guy said "we provide FULL COVERAGE, dental and eyes too!..." Man I burnt up that card! Us redneck family hogdogs were sportin....
Brent
 
The way I look at it is, "do I want my ER visit to go anything like my DMV visit?" Quite simply if you put health care in the hands of government you get a bunch of people that do not have to give a darn and still keep their jobs. I personaly do not want the government that gave us AMTRAK and the USPS(among other real winners:rolleyes:) in charge of my health care.

I am 24 and have had health benifits for all but about 9 months of my adult life. Getting a job with benifits is not hard! If you think it is you are obviously not trying very hard. So tell me, why I should pay for everyone elses healthcare?
 
Rhgunguy

Welcome to your life, There's no turning back. Unfortunatley, it's people like you and me that pay the way for the freeloaders. It will only get worse if the government or others try to take it over. There needs to be change, but socializing medicine is not the answer - It just makes it easier for people to free load because health care becomes a right for all. I feel that there are some people that are truley disabled that need help, but a majority need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and get a job.
 
One way to make sure crime doesn't pay would be to let the government run it.
-Ronald Reagan

If you want a slow, inefficent and more expensive health care system, letting the government run it would be the way to go.
 
Playboypenguin

Our low ranking and high cost are not anecdotal. They are facts.

False, they are the results of using information that has nothing to do with health care and people with political motivations skewing the numbers in favor of socialized systems. Below is a good article that explains why the WHO study is useless for comparing health care systems. I have posted some snippets of the article

Why the U.S. Ranks Low on WHO's Health-Care Study. - By John Stossel

So the verdict is in. The vaunted U.S. medical system is one of the worst.

But there's less to these studies than meets the eye. They measure something other than quality of medical care. So saying that the U.S. finished behind those other countries is misleading.
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The WHO judged a country's quality of health on life expectancy. But that's a lousy measure of a health-care system. Many things that cause premature death have nothing do with medical care. We have far more fatal transportation accidents than other countries. That's not a health-care problem.

Similarly, our homicide rate is 10 times higher than in the U.K., eight times higher than in France, and five times greater than in Canada.
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Another reason the U.S. didn't score high in the WHO rankings is that we are less socialistic than other nations. What has that got to do with the quality of health care? For the authors of the study, it's crucial. The WHO judged countries not on the absolute quality of health care, but on how "fairly" health care of any quality is "distributed." The problem here is obvious. By that criterion, a country with high-quality care overall but "unequal distribution" would rank below a country with lower quality care but equal distribution.

It's when this so-called "fairness," a highly subjective standard, is factored in that the U.S. scores go south.
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I think one of the biggest flaws in this country is NOT having socialized medicine.

We rank dead last in Industrialized nations in health care:

“WASHINGTON (Reuters) - France, Japan and Australia rated best and the United States worst in new rankings focusing on preventable deaths due to treatable conditions in 19 leading industrialized nations, researchers said on Tuesday.”


Here is our ranking in the world from WHO:

35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba


So we can go to Slovenia and get about the same health care. This is pathetic; we have the most wealth but horrific health care. I have family members that can not afford their medication. When my Dad was out of work he had to stop taking his blood pressure medication because of the high cost and no insurance. I have seen people not go to the hospital because they have no insurance (myself at one time with a 104 degree temperature). How can we, in this country we live in, not have socialized medicine? The right to bear arms is just as important as the right to medical care. We have people that will fight to the death for their right to bear arms but never give a whimper about paying $100 for a prescription. Look at what the CEO of Mylan Pharmaceuticals makes in a year. I think it was around 8.3 Million. Take a 2 million a year pay check and they could lower the cost of prescriptions, but the rich want to get richer so they do not care if you die because you lack health care.

See the movie "Sicko"!!!!! I know it is a Michael Moore movie, and I do not agree with his guns views but he really shows the truth about our heath care system in this movie.

http://www.uhcan.org/

I like how people keep saying “get a job.” In West Virginia if you have a job making more than Minimal wage, it is a great job to have. Then to get some sort of heath care, wow you are living good! I know there are lot of people that are hard working Families in WV that don’t have health care risking their lives working in Mines everyday.
 
pesta,

read crosshair's post right above yours. The WHO rankings are not an accurate measure of a nation's health care system.

"Sicko" is just as full of half-truths, omissions, and outright lies as "Bowling for Columbine".

Did you even bother reading through the thread before you posted your reply?

The right to bear arms is just as important as the right to medical care.
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Medical care is not a right. It cannot be a right, because it involves a financial obligation on someone else's part.

Look at what the CEO of Mylan Pharmaceuticals makes in a year. I think it was around 8.3 Million. Take a 2 million a year pay check and they could lower the cost of prescriptions, but the rich want to get richer so they do not care if you die because you lack health care.
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I am getting tired of all the college Trotskyists who keep repeating collectivist claptrap like "the rich want to get richer." When's the last time you went to an ER and offered to pay for someone else's doctor bill? What business of yours is it how much your neighbor earns, whether he's a pharmaceutical CEO, or a burger flipper? In either case, it's not your money, and none of your business. How many homeless people could you feed with all the money *you* spend above and beyond the minimum necessary to keep yourself alive and warm? Bought an iPod recently? A laptop, maybe? That's enough to buy groceries for a month for an inner-city family, you know. But you don't care if people starve to death because you want to listen to Nine Inch Nails while you're working out.

If all you fans of socialized-anything practiced what you're trying to preach, you'd all be donating everything that's left of your paychecks after rent and bills are paid. But, no--you like to keep what you've earned. You want to keep your profits.

Ugh. A century of failed socialism all over the world, and people still think it's chic to wear the Che Guevara shirt, consider "profit" a dirty word, blab about "the rich getting richer", and look towards the benevolent state to make everyone equal.
 
It seems the biggest concern to those that oppose Universal Healthcare is that healthcare would go from being a private sector industry to being a government agency, but from what I have read of candidate's plans, that is not what is proposed.

Doctors, hospitals, pharmaceuticals and insurance companies would all still be private sector. There would be tax credits to low-income people and small businesses for health insurance plans, so that health insurance would not cost more than a certain percentage of a persons income. People could still have choice, keep their existing plans, choose their doctors. More emphasis on preventive care. There are other measures that are outlined that address the spiraling costs.

Read the plans. Criticize accordingly. But this is one issue that has been building up steam for a while, and will almost definitely be implemented in some way, at some point in the near future.
 
In either case, it's not your money, and none of your business. How many homeless people could you feed with all the money *you* spend above and beyond the minimum necessary to keep yourself alive and warm? Bought an iPod recently? A laptop, maybe? That's enough to buy groceries for a month for an inner-city family, you know.
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I can not afford an I-Pod or any MP3 player, geszzz think I am made of money. That goes to buying groceries at WalMart and Save-A-Lot. I don’t have a lap top, do not have internet connectional at home, can’t afford either. I use my computer at work. My last computer I bought at home was from 1999. I live pay check to pay check, barley can make our small apartment rent. Last month I had $6 left to my name. The last guns I bought I bought with a cashed in IRA from another company I use to work for and the rest I used to pay for food, electic, gas, renc, insurance, and water. I have had to borrow gas money from my dad just to get the 26 miles one way drive to work. Its 45 degrees in our apartment because we can not pay the electrical bill in the winter. I am 34 years old with a B.S. in Architecture and should be living the American dream right? Welcome to WV! My clothes come from the Goodwill and second hand stores. Have cable TV but no digital for me and my TV is 19 inches. I drive a 1999 Neon that leaks a quart of oil a week! Raman noodles, I am stocked up on them at home.So don’t you ever take a tone about Money issues with me till you walked a mile in my shoes?

If all you fans of socialized-anything practiced what you're trying to preach, you'd all be donating everything that's left of your paychecks after rent and bills are paid. But, no--you like to keep what you've earned. You want to keep your profits.
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There is nothing left of my pay check to donate.

Move to China or Cuba
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No thanks but I would like move to England if they had our gun laws.

In either case, it's not your money,
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Yes it is!! It is the money of the people of the U.S that have to buy the prescriptions that pays this mans salary.

That's enough to buy groceries for a month for an inner-city family, you know.
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I am an inner city Family (well as much as inner city as you can get in WV)

Read some of my other post, I can buy one gun a year with my Christmas Bonus, guess what, none this year went to Paying electricity bills. Along with my Dad's $100 he gave me, bills also. God Bless my family though, gave us a Stove / Range for Christmas so we have someplace to cook. Learned you can make a lot in a microwave and toaster oven.
 
So don’t you ever take a tone about Money issues with me till you walked a mile in my shoes?
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Yet you can blithely advocate other people paying for your medical bills, without walking a mile in their shoes? You don't have an idea of how much we pay in taxes, or how much less was left of my paycheck when I lived in a system with socialized medicine. All you know is that you want the people who make more than you to pick up the tab for other people's health care, simply based on the fact that they have more money left over at the end of the month.

Who are you to determine who deserves to keep their earnings, and who doesn't?

I tell you what: you pay for your own health care, and I pay for mine. Don't agree with that? Then tell me how much of my paycheck ought to go to your doctor bills, and why.

I am 34 years old with a B.S. in Architecture and should be living the American dream right? Welcome to WV! My clothes come from the Goodwill and second hand stores. Have cable TV but no digital for me and my TV is 19 inches. I drive a 1999 Neon that leaks a quart of oil a week!
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So whose fault is that? And why does that entitle you to any of your neighbors' paychecks?

Yes it is!! It is the money of the people of the U.S that have to buy the prescriptions that pays this mans salary.
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It's not yours. it's the money of the people who buy the prescriptions, and then it becomes the money of the people who sell the product. It's not communal property. And who pays for the development of all the drugs they sell, and the salaries of the people who develop them? Should they all work for free, to serve the common good? Or do you want to cap their salaries and profits based on what you think they should make? What was that again about "walking a mile in someone else's shoes"?

Read some of my other post, I can buy one gun a year with my Christmas Bonus, guess what, none this year went to Paying electricity bills. Along with my Dad's $100 he gave me, bills also. God Bless my family though, gave us a Stove / Range for Christmas so we have someplace to cook. Learned you can make a lot in a microwave and toaster oven.
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Again, whose fault is that? Is it mine? If not, why should I be forced to contribute to your doctor visits?

Look, life is tough. There are no guarantees--nobody makes the food in my fridge magically appear, and the propane tank in the back doesn't refill itself automatically every other month. I can either sit here and bitch about evil Irving Propane, how their CEO makes a hundred times more than I do, and how they'd just let me freeze to death if I couldn't pay the propane bill because they value their profits more than my life...or I can get off my ass and work so I can pay the bill. This country offers lots of opportunity for employment, entrepreneurship, and self-improvement, and if my current job doesn't make enough to pay the bills, I can go out and take advantage of those opportunities.

That does require initiative, of course, and it's a lot more work than to sit and bitch about The Man keeping everyone down, and clamoring for the state to steal from my neighbor so I can get my annual check-ups. I'm too damn proud to take from others what I ought to be able to provide to my family with my own two hands.
 
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