I have a question for all those comments about the lady that fired the 5 shots with the J-Frame and how that justified the position of a 15 shot semiautomatic pistol. Since the bad guys broke and ran after the 5 shots from the little J-Frame had the lady had a 15 round semiauto and she kept shooting as they ran, would she be charged with muder since they had clearly broken off the assault ? If so, she really did not need 15 rounds, and it might have only gotten her in trouble.
Shoot out at Pawn Shop, Tactics worth reflection
- Thread starter Blue Duck
- Start date
Pond James Pond
New member
Don't have to shoot them just because you have them.
My guess is that that would have been the time to disengage with 10 left in the mag. Had they not broken off the attack she would not have been left with an empty gun.
My choice of 6-shot snub as a carry gun is heavily influenced by the governing firearms law here, but if those did not apply, I think I'd be going semi-auto compact. In a shop, probably full-size.
My guess is that that would have been the time to disengage with 10 left in the mag. Had they not broken off the attack she would not have been left with an empty gun.
My choice of 6-shot snub as a carry gun is heavily influenced by the governing firearms law here, but if those did not apply, I think I'd be going semi-auto compact. In a shop, probably full-size.
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In many jurisdictions, yes, she would risk some charges. IIRC, there are some jurisdictions (Texas, perhaps?) that consider it justified to fire at a fleeing felon. Being found justified after a long and expensive court fight isn't my goal, though. Get me out of the mess with me and those I care about alive.
I guess that puts me in agent Pond's camp:
Pawn Shop
@HOOK686; You are correct. As a retired LEO, I assure you that HAD the lady fired a shot and hit the perp in the back, perhaps even to the rear of his side [as he reflexively turned in the split-second after being hit], it could appear [that] she fired as he was running away after breaking off the assault.
It's well that things turned out as they did and everyone was/is safe.
[Monday morning quarterbacks] have the perfect plays and scenarios all figured out without having been in the game in the first place. Given that same situation, I wonder just how many would have had the presence of mind to connect with the same number hits as the lady did.
Take care and be careful.
WILL(BLUE)
@HOOK686; You are correct. As a retired LEO, I assure you that HAD the lady fired a shot and hit the perp in the back, perhaps even to the rear of his side [as he reflexively turned in the split-second after being hit], it could appear [that] she fired as he was running away after breaking off the assault.
It's well that things turned out as they did and everyone was/is safe.
[Monday morning quarterbacks] have the perfect plays and scenarios all figured out without having been in the game in the first place. Given that same situation, I wonder just how many would have had the presence of mind to connect with the same number hits as the lady did.
Take care and be careful.
WILL(BLUE)
Double Naught Spy
New member
Depending on state laws, the issue isn't whether or not they have broken off "the assault" but whether or not they still pose a threat. We can rehash the instances where the suspect "clearly broke off the assult" and ran, only to stop and turn and fire again, to which I would argue that there is no clearly broken off assault until the suspect is actually gone (no longer in the immediate area or incapacitated). Then the assault is clearly broken off. Retreating to a better position is not the same thing as breaking off an assault.
Given that the old lady ran out of ammo BEFORE the assault was over, I would say that she definitely could have used more capacity. In fact, after she ran out of ammo, BOTH suspects fired at her. The assault really was not over until both had left the store. If you watch the video, despite one suspect running towards the door, his buddy is pointing and firing toward the old lady. The assault was most definitely still in progress regardless of the direction one guy was running. See the video starting at about 40 seconds.
http://5newsonline.com/2014/12/06/springdale-police-are-investigating-early-morning-robbery/
She connected once in the arm out of 5 shots. I am not sure this is an issue of presence of mind to connect the same number of times, LOL.
FireForged
New member
limp wristing all over the place..
Tip my hat to the lady... she didnt waste any time responding to the threat.
Tip my hat to the lady... she didnt waste any time responding to the threat.
Notanotherstatistic
Inactive
If we're all gonna Monday morning QB this thing a decade afterward...
Store was sadly laid out for any defensive tactics. Guess the owners felt as though being "armed" was enough? Big tip of the hat to "grandma". I'm sure she's somebody's grandma. Her actions alone, however "ingloriously perfect" kept herself, her husband, and the clerk alive. Even the perps lived. I'd call that a good outcome. Worthy of admiration. She stood and delivered. What more could you seriously hope for? She clearly was afraid for her life, and faced the attack head on. She was no statistic.
As far as the guys hitting the deck with pocket carry guns... It'd be easy to talk trash. But until you've been shot at, you just don't know how people will react. Some stand and deliver, some hit the deck. Others drop there feces all over and run. Never know until you KNOW.
Store was sadly laid out for any defensive tactics. Guess the owners felt as though being "armed" was enough? Big tip of the hat to "grandma". I'm sure she's somebody's grandma. Her actions alone, however "ingloriously perfect" kept herself, her husband, and the clerk alive. Even the perps lived. I'd call that a good outcome. Worthy of admiration. She stood and delivered. What more could you seriously hope for? She clearly was afraid for her life, and faced the attack head on. She was no statistic.
As far as the guys hitting the deck with pocket carry guns... It'd be easy to talk trash. But until you've been shot at, you just don't know how people will react. Some stand and deliver, some hit the deck. Others drop there feces all over and run. Never know until you KNOW.
The lady armed with just a simple five shot revolver and probably nil training managed to be the only one to get a hit, thwart the robbery and lead to the ultimate capture of the bad guys.
She could have benefited by 1) having Practiced emergency reloads. She had time behind counter on floor. 2) Carrying a second revolver due to high crime targeting of store and her physical ability to perform a re load on he floor. 3) Having her employees better practiced with drawing their revolvers. Bottom line knowing how to "run" your weapon when the stuff hits the fan.
She could have benefited by 1) having Practiced emergency reloads. She had time behind counter on floor. 2) Carrying a second revolver due to high crime targeting of store and her physical ability to perform a re load on he floor. 3) Having her employees better practiced with drawing their revolvers. Bottom line knowing how to "run" your weapon when the stuff hits the fan.
