Secondary Non-lethal weapon

So if an unarmed drunk took a swing at you, you would shoot him, kc?

That sort of situation is why I carry the vile spray. I don't run or fight as well as I used to and I'm not going to shoot someone for attempting to instigate fisticuffs.

You must live in more peaceful surroundings than I. If I shot everyone who took a poke at me the streets would be bloody from here to Alaska and I would spend alltogether too much time in court.
Click to expand...

Did you read all of my earlier posts?
No, I would not.
But I would also not reduce myself to a fistfight. I would walk away.
If he continued, and I felt there was no way for me to escape from an attack, YES, I ABSOLUTELY WOULD.

He's drunk, and I've had 3 knee surgeries and a shoulder surgery. I still have pain in one or both knees and my right shoulder many days. I trained in martial arts with my best friend for 3 years in my mid 20's, but due to physical limitations, and the injuries I have suffered, I can't do it anymore, and I can't fight as well as I used to be able to. Nor do I want to.

If you get in a stupid macho immature fight without attempting to walk away and he is seriously injured, where I live you are just as guilty as the guy who started the fight and can be liable civally and criminally for his injuries. He could have AIDS, hepatitis, or a myriad of other communicable diseases that could spread thru the contact of body fluids in a fight. Since he is drunk, he may not know when to quit if he gets me in a bad position. If someone is knocked down to the ground, a kick to the head can cause serious injury, brain damage, or death.

I have a family that counts on me to be alive the next morning. He may also, but I didn't make him decide to try and be a tough guy or drink until he was unable to remain in control of himself. I may be a bad person to say it, but I'm not as worried about his family or his well being as I am of my family's and my own.

I have no need for pepper spray. I am not required to not kill him if he continues to put me into a situation where I could suffer serious injuries. If he won't let me leave the situation, he is leaving me with no other option. I'd prefer not to shoot him, but I won't risk my safety.
 
But I would also not reduce myself to a fistfight. I would walk away.
If he continued, and I felt there was no way for me to escape from an attack, YES, I ABSOLUTELY WOULD.
Click to expand...

"And tonight on the six-o-clock news our lead story: a teenager, found to be unarmed, was shot by a man claiming self-defense."

(cue weeping welfare mom)

"He was a good boy! He was turning his life around!"

(cue leftist professor)

"We see here that there's just too many guns, and this is what happens."

(cue bubblehead anchor)

"Neighbors describe the shooter as a quiet person, and are surprised he'd have guns. The shooting victim's schoolmates say he was creative and outgoing and had a bright future. No word on whether charges may be filed, but the victim's family has contacted a lawyer. A memorial service and candlelight vigil will be held at the victim's high school this weekend."

...

And that is precisely what would happen. Fair? No. Accurate? I think so.
 
Unfortunately, I did read your insipid posts and they do not mesh with what you just stated.
Here's your justification for using lethal force against a non-lethal threat:
If I get into a "fistfight" where I was not the aggressor and did not provoke the situation, I have just been ATTACKED. Period.
Click to expand...

I'm only promoting the "middle path" after you have tried to retreat, but before you kill someone over a petty squabble.

Anyone can be Rambo on the internet. I hope in real life you are more measured in your responses. If not, you have a hard life ahead of you, buddy.
 
Follow up story:

The shooting was ruled justified as the shooter tried to distance himself from the situation first. No civil charges will be able to be filed because of that finding. Shooters family is glad to have him home safe.
 
Last edited:
Unfortunately, I did read your insipid posts and they do not mesh with what you just stated.
Here's your justification for using lethal force against a non-lethal threat:

Quote:
If I get into a "fistfight" where I was not the aggressor and did not provoke the situation, I have just been ATTACKED. Period.
Click to expand...

I'm only promoting the "middle path" after you have tried to retreat, but before you kill someone over a petty squabble.

Anyone can be Rambo on the internet. I hope in real life you are more measured in your responses. If not, you have a hard life ahead of you, buddy.
Click to expand...
:rolleyes:

Oh, then maybe you just missed the part where I said this:
First off, I would have tried to avoid this escalating to this point, and I'm mature enough to have tried to walk away. If after my attempt to leave it alone I am still attacked, I have every right to protect myself with lethal force.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but it'll be a long life, won't it.
 
Sounds like KCshooter has a serious problem with machoism, probably watches too many tuff guy movies. Sounds like he has a problem not wanting to be a victim to some POS. Sounds like a problem of wanting to make sure a worthless pos doesn't take what he works hard for.

If he didn't have this problem, he would probably support a welfare state, support complete government handouts and control, stopping racial profiling, and support affirmative action.

Wow, what a shame. :(

To bad there aren't a whole lot more with that problem. :D
 
If you shoot an unarmed doofus you are not going to get that "followup story", kc. You think that backing up a few feet will make a prosecutor see things your way when there is a body involved?

If you shoot an unarmed geek, you are going to trial. You may win, but I would rather avoid the death of some loser and a criminal prosecution entirely if possible. Using non-lethal force before the pistol comes out at least shows that I reasonably tried to end the situation without bloodshed.

It can't hurt and it may avoid a lot of trouble.
 
Yeah, KCshooter definitely has macho man syndrome since he is recommending you WALK AWAY.

While oldbillthundercheif is the one getting into so many fist fights and "petty squabbles" that if he were to use a gun "the streets would be bloody from here to Alaska".

I see which is the macho man. Non-macho men don't GET into fistfights, they don't give people any excuse to engage in a fist fight with them, and if they have indeed done everything in their power to ignore/get away from/leave the bar/avoid a confrontation with a drunk guy and he still attacks them... that is assault plain and simple
 
If you shoot an unarmed doofus you are not going to get that "followup story", kc. You think that backing up a few feet will make a prosecutor see things your way when there is a body involved?If you shoot an unarmed geek, you are going to trial. You may win, but I would rather avoid the death of some loser and a criminal prosecution entirely if possible. Using non-lethal force before the pistol comes out at least shows that I reasonably tried to end the situation without bloodshed.
Click to expand...

You don't seem to be able to understand this. If a drunken idiot tries to start a fight, chances are there are going to be other people around, right? I live in a city, I don't think you can go anywhere without a witness. When a witness reports to the police they heard me loudly announce that I didn't want to fight him and turned to walk away at least once before I was attacked, there is not going to be a trial, there isn't even going to be a charge.

You need to brush up on the laws a bit. I know the laws of my state; here, I'll even requote it since you seem to have a problem reading the whole thread before you start making statements that are unfounded:
MO state law reads: A felony or murder is justifiable and not criminal when it is necessary as an emergency measure to avoid an imminent public or private injury which is about to occur by reason of a situation occasioned or developed through no fault of the actor.
Click to expand...

Doesn't say I have to fight him first. Doesn't say I have to use pepper spray, (which is proven to work about 85% of the time, and may affect me also). It says if the stupid drunken jackass continues to try and cause me injury when I have not provoked him, I am justified in shooting him.
 
mattro said:
Sounds like KCshooter has a serious problem with machoism, probably watches too many tuff guy movies.
Click to expand...
revance said:
Yeah, KCshooter definitely has macho man syndrome since he is recommending you WALK AWAY.
Click to expand...

Revance,
No, no, he was being sarcastic, it's cool.
 
What I want to know is how all of you guys are getting into these fights with drunk guys?!?!?

How friggin hard is it to stay out of a fight?

If you are getting into fights as often as you imply with your posts, it scares the heck out of me that you even HAVE guns. You really should just stick with the pepper spray, it would make me feel safer.


Again, I can see absolutely NO situation that would require pepper spray (and not lethal force) that you couldn't have avoided or walked away from!
 
So... If I didn't miss anything, so far exactly six people have actually responded to the OP's question. Three (kcshooter, revance and mattro) said a pistol is all they need, although mattro endorsed spray as the primary weapon for someone uncomfortable with using deadly force. Three (dawg23, Manedwolf, and oldbillthunderchief) spoke out in favor of carrying spray as a backup to a pistol. Nobody expressed an opinion in either direction about whether they recommend carrying a flashlight, although Desert01 did provide some additional research material.

Did I get that right? It was pretty hard to sift through all the rest of the words here, I might have missed something.

I think the OP has a good question. I wish that all the posters had at least answered it before continuing on with their topics of interest.

For what it's worth, my vote goes for the backup. My theory is that the more tools in my self-defense "toolbox," the better. I started carrying the original brand-name Mace (CN) in the 70's when it was the only thing available to civilians. Nowadays I carry DPS OC. I also carry a Surefire 120 lumen light, and a Kershaw folding knife. The knife gets the most use: After all, there's always another box or envelope that needs opening! :)

Always first assuming that I am unable - for whatever reason - to avoid a bad situation entirely...

A pistol is part of my daily carry, and I'm prepared to use it if that's what the situation requires. But I'd prefer to "discourage" an assailant without resorting to deadly force if possible. If I don't have any LTL tools available, I'm out of options from the beginning.

My two cents, YMMV.
 
I think a flashlight is incredibly important. Most confrontations will happen in low or no light (statistics). Blinding the perp and identifying the target are critical.

I have tactical lights next to bed, in carry bag, in every vehicle and multiple places thru house.

I do not carry a light daily because it is inconvenient. Gun, blade and phone is all i choose to carry everyday on my person.

Still see very little need for OC. I have some in my carry bag for the incredibly remote event it would be handy, but I choose to not carry it on me.
 
I think the OP has a good question. I wish that all the posters had at least answered it before continuing on with their topics of interest.
Click to expand...

Now wait a minute, I answered it, the first reply was mine, saying how I didn't see a need for weighing myself down with either.

Everything else was a response to the attack of my opinion that followed.

I always try to answer a good question.
 
Yeah, I carry a Surefire light w/ 120 lumen lamp if I'm out at night. I also carry a nice pocketknife but that would be the last thing I would use in a bad situation.
 
I have to wonder, with the people who carry gun AND pepperspray AND light AND knife...how they manage to do that without looking like an on-duty cop or an IT guy there to fix the network. :confused:
 
Buy pants with generous pockets and you won't have a problem.

Even if you have regular pockets a can of spray and a small pocketknife won't weigh you down too much. Toss your flashlight and cellphone in the other pocket and you won't even feel lopsided.

I've never been one to hang stuff on my belt. Aside from my holster, it's a no-cargo zone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top