School Shootings In General - What is the solution

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BoringAccountant

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First let me say this is another terrible tragedy in Cleveland.

Second, a few days ago, I believe it was the middle of last week, there was a call-in cable show that asked viewers what should be done regarding school shootings, what is the proper step to avoid this devastating trend in America. I tried calling in, but was unsuccessful and the, for lack of a better term, a$$wipe who represented the pro-gun side looked and talked like a jackass, he made us seem like crazy gun-toting nuts, so I was appalled.

It begs the question...what do you do to avoid these school shootings? I am undecided. I know most of you believe that arming school teachers and principals is the key, each to a varying degree, whether it be only 2 teachers per school, unknown to everyone, or an insane amount of class time to prepare them, etc. I agree 100%, it would work or at least seriously cut down on the number of victims, maybe not the number of incidents.

But can we be realistic for a moment, lets talk about the present day, a day with the Hillary Clintons and Sarah Brady...what is the solution for the 2007 America, how can we fix it, because I am nearly 100% sure that arming the teachers will NEVER happen, I do not think it would be allowed.

Now of course, one can always choose to carry without the proper permission and I am all for that if it has the chance to save a life or two, but I am talking about other ways to stop this, how do we do it?

BillCA wrote this in another thread and it begs repeating because every part is true...
Schools are in a Catch-22 situation.

If they don't do something to prevent these "foreseeable incidents" they're gonna start getting their pants sued off by parents. I'm sure some of it has already happened with varying degrees of success.

If we allow teachers or staff to be armed, school district lawyers will wet their pants at the idea of so much liability and insurance companies won't even go there. Not to mention the uproar if one of the school faculty actually does stop a shooter, student or not. There will always be some nitwit who thinks little Bobby could have been "talked out of it" (fine, Mr or Mrs Citizen, next time you stand there at gunpoint and talk him out of it).

Which teachers are armed should be a choice of the individual teacher, not mandated. Taking CCW classes and demonstrating basic shooting skills should be mandatory. Retention holsters... probably a good idea. But I fear some administration fool would get his panties in a knot and require teachers to store their guns in locked boxes in the main office where they would be useless when the time came.
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We have already seen that metal detectors do nothing, and most do not want the school where their kids go to resemble a prison (armed security guards), and to some varying degree I believe some of thse kids could have been reasoned with, or talked prior to the incident to avoid this (I just dont believe that a 14 year old or less has the understanding of the ramifications of a school shooting), so what is the solution.

To another degree, most will fully admit, even the libs, that to some degree this is a result of improper gun storage at a parents house, or that the parent was just an idiot and did not bother to teach their kid about guns.

What do we do? I do not have kids yet, but will in the near future and I am already dreading the day I send him to school.
 
I am already dreading the day I send him to school.
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Your on the right track with that statement, our public schools have been failing since the late 60's, I do not say there aren't good teachers and kids they are out there however our society is changing so much in terms of morals,standards, discipline along with that we have many single parent homes or both parents working and children are free to roam tied to a cell phone. It certainly is not Ozzie and Harriet anymore so my thought is protect the students anyway possible and that includes arming teachers and if you have the income send your children to private school.
 
First off, a big problem is access. There are already laws on the books that make it illegal for you to allow access of firearms to children in most, if not all states. Enforce them. Parents have to take responsibility for their kids, and people have to take responsibility for their firearms if they have kids in the home.

I would prefer training and arming teachers and have them carry concealed, having evey kid go through some sort of firearms safety class as a requirement for attendance, and so forth. I realize those two are a little radical, so how about just allowing teacher's, with training, to carry CCW. Also, provide firearms safety classes (preferably NRA) and give parents the option to not have their kids attend.

Another thing we need to do is treat all these threats seriously. Kids need to know it's not a joke and they're going to be treated as if they are dangerous if they make those kinds of threats. Some kid says he is going to "kill everyone," then make his parents escort him to school officials every morning before class and then have him searched head to toe for any kind of weapons for the rest of the school year. Keep an eye on the kid in the following years. Take away their opportunity to do this kind of thing.

Oh, and secure schools. That is the easiest thing we can do. Most schools, including the high school I attended you could walk in or out of without anyone the wiser. Fix that.
 
Solution?

Ultimate solution to alleviate school shootings would be to close all schools and everyone home-school their children. No Schools = No School Shootings.

I wouldn't want this to happen though...
 
The truth is your not going to be able to stop it. Nut's will be Nut's! Sane people just don't think like Nuts so there for have no defence.

You could install total gun bans and they would find them or worst!

You can install magnetometer's at the door ways and they would find a way!

Some of these kids are so flipping smart, they could devise a means from any well equipped kitchen.

All you can do is the best you can do!

Hit the kids with metal detectors on the way in. That may take care of the knives and firearms! Maybe!

No gun control laws will solve this one!
 
You're not going to arm teachers. Most of them are liberals who wouldn't dream of spanking a kid, let alone shooting one. There may be a few who are willing and qualified to arm themselves, but any kid with half a brain will identify them before he makes his plans (don't start the rampage in shop class).

I think this problem reflects a combination of problems in society, and guns won't solve it. Guns aren't the problem, they aren't the solution either.
 
I think this problem reflects a combination of problems in society, and guns won't solve it. Guns aren't the problem, they aren't the solution either.
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Then what is YOUR solution?

This idea of arming teachers who are willing is a way of equalling the playing field. Look at that Katz lady...she teaches what? Math or something...hardly shop class.

You can't fight fire by spitting on it. And you can't water plants with ground beef.

Here is an idea that may cut down on the problems in our schools:

1. Kick out ALL illegal immigrant children, send them packing back to wherever it is they came from.

2. Designate dress code in ALL schools

3. Do not allow students to park on the premesis and do not let them leave premesis at any time during school hours unless emergency or scheduled by parent.

4. 1 way in, 8 ways out. Doors can be fashioned to allow 1-way access to anyone but those with a key or tool (firemen, police, etc...) All students must enter a school through one door and be subject to a metal detector and if questionable, search of their items. If an emergency ensues, people can evacuate out the 1-way exits.

5. This one is a toss up, but: Students who are caught or proved to have bullied or harrassed other students are sent home for 2 days and not allowed to make up missed class/work. After 3 instances...expelled. Harassment is often cause of revenge in schools.


These are ideas that may help the problem, but by no means will conclude those problems. Those problems of school shootings should be dealt with harshly and doing it with armed teachers who are willing to take a stand is certainly a way to do it.

We hear the stories of liberal teachers because it is what the media wants to hype. The majority of them are just like you and I. They are simple Americans who care about our country, our future, our rights and our safety. Heck, I wasn't out of high school too long ago and I had 2 teachers who were Vietnam Vets and were very conservative. I remember only one teacher I had who was overtly liberal, and I bet she would have picked up a gun and capped the azz of some punk trying to kill people.
 
I can see some good reasons to send illegal immigrant children packing, even though SCOTUS would never allow it, but this isn't one of those cases. Not many of these shooters have been illegal immigrants.

Hard answer : you can't stop this sorta stuff. You prevent gun ownership, they'll go onto cheaper and simpler explosives, and, yes, tenth grade chemistry is all you need to figure out a quick and reliable bomb. You put up escape routes, they'll lock all but one and enjoy the shooting gallery. You try searching them, you'll see the searchers shot at a nice place where people are stuck in line. You teach people to fight back, they'll aim for people unlikely to actually do so. It's not about bullying -- these sorta freaks are the type people won't bully, because they're just too strange. It's not about

The real way would be to make taking an innocent human life so ugly a concept that even freaks like this couldn't do it, but I don't think that level of brainwashing is worth avoiding something rarer than a lightning strike.
 
Lots of press, but in the infinite scheme of things not a real problem. I suspect that a teenagers chance of dying during team sports or practice for team sports is much higher than the danger of being shot in a random act of violence. You have to take the drug shootings out of the stats though since they aren't random.

Not knowing the stats I can't put exact figures on it but I suspect that falls kill and injure more school children than any other thing(based on the fact that falls are usually near the top in cause of accidental death and injury). Should we ban all step stools and put in rubber floors?
 
I can see some good reasons to send illegal immigrant children packing, even though SCOTUS would never allow it, but this isn't one of those cases. Not many of these shooters have been illegal immigrants.
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I'm not saying illegal immigrants are the shooters...but allowing them in school disrupts American education and its system. They have bad manners, habbits and poor learning skills. This is especially the case if they have been brought here from a dusty road neighborhood, no education and are put into the 5th or 6th grade where they have not the history of other, American students. It is a detriment to society and further ruins our schools. Taking them out of the classroom would allow teachers to pay more attention to American students, thereby heightening the quality of the educational environment.
 
CrazyIvan007: 5. This one is a toss up, but: Students who are caught or proved to have bullied or harrassed other students are sent home for 2 days and not allowed to make up missed class/work. After 3 instances...expelled. Harassment is often cause of revenge in schools.
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Never happen. Too much of the harassment/bullying is done by their precious football players. Punishing the “athletic elite” is strictly off-limits in most schools. Not to mention the difference in treatment if the problem is cross racial. “Zero tolerance” regarding harassment/bullying sounds good but is seldom enforced.
 
I believe it was the Jesuits who said give me a child until he is six and I will give you the adult, or some such thing.

I can think of no more cost effective way to export out culture than to provide free education to foreign children. Divert all the federal money it takes but educate every single kid you can find from any country you can find. One of two things will happen:
1. They will take all their education back to their country and make their country better trading partners thus benifiting both countries
2. They will stay in this country but have a useful education and thus be well paid members of society.


Face it, even an illegal alien with a HS diploma is better than an illegal alien HS dropout. Education benifits society as a whole more than it benifits any one person or group of people.

We should probably fund border schools and provide free education for every mexican kid who will show up and put in the work. Issue the kids education visas or something. Then when they are grown up they will change their own country because they will know it doesn't have to be that way.

We should build american elementary and High schools anywhere the local governments will allow. It worked for the Catholics for centuries, why not make it work for us?
 
.....a$$wipe who represented the pro-gun side looked and talked like a jackass, he made us seem like crazy gun-toting nuts, so I was appalled.
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I didn't know Ted Nugent was in town for that.
Seriously though, unless they put detectors and cops at every entrance of every school, and lock and seal every window, it will probably just have to go out of style the same way it came into style. You know, the way the hippie movement brought about sharing your love and your pot.
 
I'm not sure that more metal detectors and searches are the answer. At my old high school we didn't have metal detectors, no cameras, no security guards, no fences, none of that stuff. In my whole 4 years there maybe 3 fights occurred, after which the 2 people going at it shook hands and walked off like men. During hunting season we used to leave our rifles in our trucks so we could go out after school. The principal kept his in his office. At lunch there would be groups in the parking lot talking about guns with the staff. We used to make knives and refinish gun parts in shop class. Nobody had a problem with it and nothing ever happened. I personally think the problem is a combination of bad parenting, the media, and the lack of accountability in our country. All these rappers and other "musicians" singing about how it's ok, even cool, to steal, hurt people, and that nothing will happen to you if you do. Parents not being active in their children's lives. But above all I think the biggest problem is that kids today are scared of getting their butts kicked. Back home if you got in a fight and lost it was no big deal, it sucked, it hurt, but you got over it and you were friends again. Most people today are too scared and too wrapped up in themselves to just move on. But what do I know, I'm just an airman.
 
I can see some good reasons to send illegal immigrant children packing, even though SCOTUS would never allow it, but this isn't one of those cases....
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I can...it frees up more money for schools to spend on security and education matters.

A lot of good suggestions....let me add a few....

1. I hate to admit it, but our schools need more armed security to deal with threats from the inside (student shootings) and outside (kidnappers, terrorist attacks). Bigger districts can hire off-duty cops or security firms, but this is expensive for smaller districts. I think smaller districts should cross-train some of their personnel who volunteer as licensed armed security. And allow teachers & other school personel with valid CCW's to carry.

2. Hold students and parents responsible for student behavior. If a kid does something wrong, deal with it immediately If it persists, bring the parents in to address it. If the parents don't handle it, suspend the kid (no in-school-suspension mess) so the parents have to deal with the kid at home. If they don't, turn it over to juvenile justice. And change the law so victims of these shooters can hold the shooter's family criminally liable--not the school.

Time to get tough.....
 
One really good way to prevent school shootings is for the media to stop covering them. The 2-3 years prior to Columbine had many school shootings, each one covered in loving detail by the media, along with silly opinion pieces asking why some nut would do an awful thing. The answer in every case has been to get notoriety, revenge for some perceived slight, or both. Columbine itself was inspired by the many attacks on schools around the nation that preceded it and IMHO VT was more or less inspired by Columbine and its predecessors. Given the way VT was covered, I'm sure that other deranged individuals have been influenced to commit similar crimes in the future.

Draining the cesspool of media coverage would do a lot to prevent school shootings as well as other mass murders. Unfortunately the media can't legally be muzzled and the media won't stop contributing to the problem. Thus, the most effective way to prevent school shootings is not going to be implemented any time soon.

Arming the teachers or providing armed security would help a lot once a school shooting started but nobody in a position of responsibility wants to be the person that advocates shooting a child to prevent other children from getting shot. Naturally, encouraging all responsible college students nationwide to CCW would prevent another VT, but arming middle and high school students just isn't realistic (or is it? In the past middle and high school students regularly brought guns to school with no problems).

So in general the problem is the people in indirectly related positions of reponsibility refuse to take responsibility and do the right thing. They also refuse to empower anyone else to do anything about it as individuals. Mostly that's because they profit from these tragedies or they are afraid of losing their jobs because they advocate a controversial but effective method of dealing with the problem.
 
I am in my 40's now, but when I went to school we carried Buck knives on our belts and school shootings did not exist! I know things were a lot simpler - I know times have changed, but, we as a scociety, need to step back and look at the big picture.. The answer is not in school guards and lock downs or society control; it's in parental responsibility and control. It must start at home; this is where a child's foundation for success or failure is determined. I know --- Wer'e not in kansas anymore, Toto!
 
I haven't seen anyone mention the fact that this was an "alternative school"...you know the place they send the kids so they don't get "left behind".

These are the kids in the school district with the biggest history of behavioral problems. That doesn't necessarily make them all gun packing psychos or thugs but these schools need real security, metal detectors, surveillance, more armed officers than a standard school.

I don't know if that would prevent things like that from happening but it would provide the schools with a way to shorten an incident like that.

I don't think there'll ever be a way to stop school shootings, there'll always be the picked on kid who snaps or some kind of tension that will result in someone using some kind of weapon. Can you stop bullying and the formation of cliques? Can you end racial tension (not an issue here but we had some bad things happen at my high school due to race)??? Can we find a way to make sure our kids are well adjusted?

I think it all starts at home with every parent, unfortunately not all parents have the same outlook or priority. I teach my son that bullies are wimps, cliques are for the weak, and that the ones that get picked on are more dangerous than the top notch athletes and he's only in Pre-K. The one time he called a kid fat at school I came down on him pretty hard and made him apologize...now he's the classroom peacemaker lol.

My last thought, the loss of any young life is tragic to me, regardless of the circumstance but ever notice how these things always end in some stupid wanna be martyring suicide? I wonder how these guys would be portrayed if a LEO or legally armed educator put a bullet in 'em. Would they think a school shooting was so glamourous if they knew their Math teacher could pull out a Glock 19 before they got their second shot off?
 
Face it, even an illegal alien with a HS diploma is better than an illegal alien HS dropout. Education benifits society as a whole more than it benifits any one person or group of people.
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The problem is that Illegal Alien kids are not held to the same standard. They can graduate high school without even knowing how to read, speak or write English. They are tossed into the grade to match their age group, regardless of previous education, whether there be any or not. Most of them drop out or learn nothing anyway, and they certainly have no drive to use their education (if any) to the benefit of society. They take the path of their parents...they go down to the border, transport other illegals and marijuana back...sell it and go buy a new car. (This is confessed by an illegal neighbor of mine!) They go on to join gangs, get government aide after having a dozen kids, identity theft, check fraud, credit fraud, you name it...

You can't fill up the basket of half good apples with bad ones and call it good. Soon enough you'll have a whole bag of worms.

But, this discussion is about school shootings, not illegal immigrants.

My point is that the culture and attitude which illegal immigrant kids bring into the educational setting causes great decline in our schools and their ability to focus on education. Some kids get left out because of so much attention on other things, alot being on illegal hospitality, and go on a rampage. It's like putting a good person in a bad environment and tempting fate whether they will stay good or not.
 
Magnetometers, guards, and all other security methods will not prevent it. We can't even keep weapons and drugs out of prison, and no one in this country wants to see our schools look like a prison.

Every shooting has one or more things in common:
1 the shooter was a trouble maker
2 the shooter was lashing out at a bully

So, it seems to me that you have zero tolerance for that sort of behavior.

1 First offense- 4 week school suspension
2 Second offense- one year suspension
3 Third offense- permanent expulsion. If you want to attend school, your parents are gonna have to send you to private school
 
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