S&W 3rd Gen Autos
- Thread starter ColColt
- Start date
Miata Mike
New member
Mighty purty though.
4506 like Willy D said.4505 = 5" barrel all blued steel
4506 = 5" barrel all stainless steel
4566 = 4.25" barrel all stainless steel
4526 = 5" barrel all stainless steel with frame mounted decocker
4516 = 3.75" barrel all stainless steel
457 = 3.75" barrel alloy frame - value series blue and stainless slides
Bill
paddling_man
New member
And 4513 = 3.75" barrel alloy frame
and CS45 = 3.25" barrel allow frame.
Not my pics... harvested from non-copyrighted pics on photobucket.
Haven't had enough experience with 'em to feel comfortable dittoing a blanket superlative for 3rd Gen S&W's. What I do know for sure is that the old 4586 LEA trade-in I bought about 10 years ago has never stuttered in about 3 K rds of widely disparate ammo types. Nothing has broken nor worn-out as yet, and Lord only knows just how many rds went through it before it came to me. I have enough confidence in it that it's been my nightstand gun-of-choice for the better part of the years I've owned it.
In fairness, I also own two other semiauto pistols which have never malfed on me: An older full-sized Witness 9x19 and a Bulgarian Makarov. FWIW, the Witness has seen circa 8.5 K rds and the Mak about 4 K.
In fairness, I also own two other semiauto pistols which have never malfed on me: An older full-sized Witness 9x19 and a Bulgarian Makarov. FWIW, the Witness has seen circa 8.5 K rds and the Mak about 4 K.
Single Six
New member
Forgive me, Bill Ruger, as I momentarily cross over to The Dark Side: I don't have a Third Gen, BUT I do have a gorgeous 645 in like-new condition. Probably the prettiest, coolest-looking auto I own...and as reliable as the sunrise.
Nowhere Man
New member
In the early 90's I carried a 5903 as a LEO so, when I came accross this one I couldn't pass it by.
Dave
Dave
I love all pre-tupperware Smith & Wesson pistols. But I do prefer all that came before the black trigger/hammer pistols. I'm also annoyed with the looks of the few with "TACTICAL" billboarded on the side.
I'm a big fan of the safety system on them, too. Many folks complain that they are way too complicated... their first annoyance is that the "fire" direction is opposite from the 1911 so they refuse to learn to throw a lever the other way. Does not bother me and I love the idea that I can have the slide locked open, the safety rotated down and I can chamber a round and let the pistol automatically chamber and subsequently decock the pistol all in one fell swoop. Very cool.
I also am one of maybe 6 people on planet earth who likes the magazine disconnect. I wouldn't want it on all of my pistols and I'd hate it on any pistol without a manual decocker, but I like it on my 1006.
I can also outshoot my 1006 with my 1911. It's a helluva gun and does home defense duty every single night -- I love it and it might be the one I'm most attached to, but I cannot wring the same level of accuracy from the 1006 that I can with some of my other handguns.
I'm a big fan of the safety system on them, too. Many folks complain that they are way too complicated... their first annoyance is that the "fire" direction is opposite from the 1911 so they refuse to learn to throw a lever the other way. Does not bother me and I love the idea that I can have the slide locked open, the safety rotated down and I can chamber a round and let the pistol automatically chamber and subsequently decock the pistol all in one fell swoop. Very cool.
I also am one of maybe 6 people on planet earth who likes the magazine disconnect. I wouldn't want it on all of my pistols and I'd hate it on any pistol without a manual decocker, but I like it on my 1006.
I have a 1992 vintage 1006 but my EDC is a Glock 29. As much as I am deeply in love with the 1006, I can outshoot it at any distance with my Glock 29. Both using exactly the same ammo. I can't explain this.
I can also outshoot my 1006 with my 1911. It's a helluva gun and does home defense duty every single night -- I love it and it might be the one I'm most attached to, but I cannot wring the same level of accuracy from the 1006 that I can with some of my other handguns.
LanceOregon
Moderator
You failed to mention the part about United States Law Enforcement abandoning the 3rd Generation Smiths in mass for the Glock.
These pistols will go down in history as being the handgun that the Glock killed.
.
Actually, that's a funny little two-way street you've pointed out there.
At the time that was happening, it was Smith & Wesson that willfully attempted to kill the 10mm because it needed to be cleared out the way for their new pet baby the .40 S&W. They ended the 10xx series and put all their focus on the .40 cal... even though Glock beat them to market with a pistol chambering their own named cartridge!
In the mean time, the 10mm remained on life support and survived in large part due to the Glock 20 and Glock 29.
I'm a firm believer that if not for Glock, 10mm might have slipped off the face of the Earth.
In hindsight, I'll forever hold that against Smith & Wesson, but I can't rationally sit here and tell you that they made a mistake. Their decision still angers me, but it would be hard to claim that the path they took didn't pay off.
At the time that was happening, it was Smith & Wesson that willfully attempted to kill the 10mm because it needed to be cleared out the way for their new pet baby the .40 S&W. They ended the 10xx series and put all their focus on the .40 cal... even though Glock beat them to market with a pistol chambering their own named cartridge!
In the mean time, the 10mm remained on life support and survived in large part due to the Glock 20 and Glock 29.
I'm a firm believer that if not for Glock, 10mm might have slipped off the face of the Earth.
In hindsight, I'll forever hold that against Smith & Wesson, but I can't rationally sit here and tell you that they made a mistake. Their decision still angers me, but it would be hard to claim that the path they took didn't pay off.
No offence Sevens, but you might throw in that the FBI had no small part in that falling-from-grace as well. They adopted the 10mm (and S&W depended on LEA contracts for a sizable chunk of their revenue), discovered that a disproportionate number of their agents had problems handling such a large pistol, especially with full-power 10 mm loads, and revised their ammo specs downward to what were essentially the same ballistic figures as we would eventually see in the 180 gr. .40 S&W load.
S&W tried to "rescue" those Federal contracts by developing Paul Liebenberg's original "Centimeter" IPSC cartridge concept (he brought both his talents and ideas with him when he moved from Pachmayr's shop to help found what became the Performance Center at S&W) for getting "major power" numbers in a 9x19-sized platform.
It was hoped that a platform offering "near-.45 ACP-level" ballistics in a 9x19-sized package and throwing in a few more rounds onboard to boot would both regain the prestigious FBI contract and capture a bigger share of the LEA market for S&W. Arguably, it did, although as you point out Glock beat them to the punch as it were and was able to underbid them substantially, too.
Let's face it: The 10mm, especially as originally loaded by Norma, was anything but the Ultimate LE/Military handgun cartridge it was envisioned as becoming. Introducing it in the dismally executed Bren 10 platform certainly didn't help much, nor did the fact that cartridges loaded to the original Norma specs wore-out most examples of virtually every other pistol platform it was tried in at an alarming rate. In the 'service' sized pistols of the time recoil was 'substantial', muzzle blast and flash likewise and even intensively trained LEA's were hard pressed to obtain acceptable qualification/proficiency levels with them. IMO, the parallels between the pre-polymer 10 mm autos and the equally ill-fated .41 Magnum revolver as an LEO sidearm are striking, but not surprising as they share many of the same drawbacks in that application.
S&W tried to "rescue" those Federal contracts by developing Paul Liebenberg's original "Centimeter" IPSC cartridge concept (he brought both his talents and ideas with him when he moved from Pachmayr's shop to help found what became the Performance Center at S&W) for getting "major power" numbers in a 9x19-sized platform.
It was hoped that a platform offering "near-.45 ACP-level" ballistics in a 9x19-sized package and throwing in a few more rounds onboard to boot would both regain the prestigious FBI contract and capture a bigger share of the LEA market for S&W. Arguably, it did, although as you point out Glock beat them to the punch as it were and was able to underbid them substantially, too.
Let's face it: The 10mm, especially as originally loaded by Norma, was anything but the Ultimate LE/Military handgun cartridge it was envisioned as becoming. Introducing it in the dismally executed Bren 10 platform certainly didn't help much, nor did the fact that cartridges loaded to the original Norma specs wore-out most examples of virtually every other pistol platform it was tried in at an alarming rate. In the 'service' sized pistols of the time recoil was 'substantial', muzzle blast and flash likewise and even intensively trained LEA's were hard pressed to obtain acceptable qualification/proficiency levels with them. IMO, the parallels between the pre-polymer 10 mm autos and the equally ill-fated .41 Magnum revolver as an LEO sidearm are striking, but not surprising as they share many of the same drawbacks in that application.
While your argument is a fine one, I make a large distinction between factors that affect a cartridge and manufacturers that do the same.
In the world of the 10mm, you can credit the designers of the round and Jeff Cooper (and his column) for a lot of early success of it, but when it's time to point the finger at the key people who hold the power of manufacturing to actually alter the course, that goes to folks like Dornaus & Dixon, Smith & Wesson, Glock and Colt. And S&W played two parts... if not for their fine 10xx series that was adopted by the FBI and subsequent other, smaller LE organizations, the cartridge would have been less successful. Their ceasing production of them to focus on the .40 cal was the opposite.
While the FBI had a large hand in the early success (and quick demise) in popularity of the round, they were an end-user, not a manufacturer.
An example of my thought process-- the .327 Federal Magnum. If it succeeds in the long run, I would give a heavy nod to Ruger for chambering it in the SP-101 and then subsequently, in the GP-100 and Blackhawk, and hopefully, the LCR. If it fails, I will have no qualms about blaming ATK/Federal directly, for their help in snuffing out any kind of momentum by dropping the ball completely when it came to producing plenty of factory ammo and handloading components where they quite catastrophically have failed.
That's not to say that the buying public hasn't had a hand in the success/failure in it, but a mere fraction that pull the actual manufacturer's do.
In the world of the 10mm, you can credit the designers of the round and Jeff Cooper (and his column) for a lot of early success of it, but when it's time to point the finger at the key people who hold the power of manufacturing to actually alter the course, that goes to folks like Dornaus & Dixon, Smith & Wesson, Glock and Colt. And S&W played two parts... if not for their fine 10xx series that was adopted by the FBI and subsequent other, smaller LE organizations, the cartridge would have been less successful. Their ceasing production of them to focus on the .40 cal was the opposite.
While the FBI had a large hand in the early success (and quick demise) in popularity of the round, they were an end-user, not a manufacturer.
An example of my thought process-- the .327 Federal Magnum. If it succeeds in the long run, I would give a heavy nod to Ruger for chambering it in the SP-101 and then subsequently, in the GP-100 and Blackhawk, and hopefully, the LCR. If it fails, I will have no qualms about blaming ATK/Federal directly, for their help in snuffing out any kind of momentum by dropping the ball completely when it came to producing plenty of factory ammo and handloading components where they quite catastrophically have failed.
That's not to say that the buying public hasn't had a hand in the success/failure in it, but a mere fraction that pull the actual manufacturer's do.
ATW525's summation is right on the mark. If there was a real demand for the 10mm cartridge, all relevant companies would be cranking pistols chambered in 10mm and its attendant ammunition out as fast as they could make it. But: no demand-no supply. This formula has been the basis for a capitalistic society from its inception and the rules as we know them aren't going to change to accomodate the whims of a fraction of the buying public-S&W's and the FBI's motivations, intentions and/or alterior motives not withstanding.
