READ BEFORE POSTING! World Trade Center Terror Attack?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Marko.

Some people simply don't feel secure unless they have a huge, vast conspiracy in which to believe.

Mr. Wasteland is a member of that camp.

A few months ago on CNN they had one of these individuals on. A more frightening creature I've never seen. He was nearly foaming at the mouth, ranting and raving about the "conspiracy," and putting forward all of the bogus "proof," such as "where's the plane that hit the Pentagon."

I just shake my head, turn the channel, and say a prayer thanking God for the First Amendment. Not to mention the Second, as well.
 
The piece in Popular Mechanics is interesting; about as thorough as the "independent" 9/11 Commission - and as much a whitewash. And who was head researcher for this little sham? Benjamin Chertoff - cousin of Michael Chertoff, Department of Homeland Security.

September 19, 2001
".... Already enough has emerged to indicate that some trades were almost certainly made based upon advance knowledge of the Black Tuesday attacks:

Between September 6 and 7, the Chicago Board Options Exchange saw purchases of 4,744 put options on United Airlines, but only 396 call options. Although there was no news at that time to justify so much "left-handed" trading, United Airlines stock fell 42 percent, from $30.82 per share to $17.50, when the market reopened after the attacks. Assuming that 4,000 of the options were bought by people with advance knowledge of the imminent attacks, these "insiders" would have profited by almost $5 million.

On September 10, 4,516 put options on American Airlines were bought on the Chicago exchange, compared to only 748 calls. Again, there was no news at that point to justify this imbalance; but American Airlines stock fell 39 percent, from $29.70 to $18.00 per share, when the market reopened. Again, assuming that 4,000 of these options trades represent "insiders," they would represent a gain of about $4 million

No similar trading in other airlines occurred on the Chicago exchange in the days immediately preceding Black Tuesday ...."
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http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=386

We know; "they're still collating". ;)

-------------------------------
Foil hat award winner for today is Mr. Larry Silverstein ....

"...I remember getting a call from the fire department commander telling me they were not sure they were going to be able to contain the fire...and I said, 'Well, you know, we've had such terrible loss of life...maybe the smartest thing to do is, is pull it'...and they made that decision to pull ... uh, and we watched the building collapse."
- Larry Silverstein, "America Rebuilds" (PBS).

Uh ... What Larry? That was fast work wiring up a building the size of number 7 for a controlled demolition.
 
LAK-
What's your point?
A) Certain persons connected to the plot recognized the obvious? (Osama is not an uneducated rube; his business background and acumen are documented.)
B) The TriLateral Commission, Dick Cheney and J. Edgar's Ghost killed a few thousand people in order to add a whopping $5MM to their coffers?

Sometimes you really slay me.
Rich
 
Wow, that did bring back memories, especially after re-reading all the inputs.

Wayne

*edited for correcting what I wanted to say.
 
Novus, I'd have to say that I think wasteland's contribution to this thread is entirely appropriate, and I don't agree that it should be altered in any way.

9/11 was the most important event in our lifetimes, and while most of us think of it in a... let's be kind and say "different" way than perhaps wasteland does, it remains a fact that 9/11 didn't happen in a bubble. It happened right here in the real world, and it deserves to be remembered not only for the events of that horrible day itself, but also for all of the events that led to making it possible in the first place.

The fact of the matter is that America was - and to some degree still is - filled with a disturbingly large quantity of folks who have completely lost touch with reality. I'm talking about people who dismiss the decades long march of Islamo-facism as a non-issue, while simultaneously seeing every move made by America as an integral plot orchestrated by nefarious somebodies somewhere who endlessly plot our doom. This deeply warped thinking can be seen as a thread throughout the fabric of America. In our colleges and universities the thread more deeply resembles a hawser. Each of those threads and hawsers are like a cancer. They devour our country from within. Had it not been for that vulnerability, no one would have ever dared such an attack.

Add to them the other cancers we suffer from: blissninnies who believe that unarmed people are "more safe" from predatory humans, idiots who believe that cradle to grave government entitlement is the very essence of liberty, wingnuts who believe that political correctness is the acme of freedom, and whatever other tweekers and lunatics one cares to add to the mix, and one can plainly see that a seminal event like 9/11 was inevitable. Our helplessness in the face of it predictable.

Nothing anyone adds to this thread is going to change what I felt that day. Nothing will change what I knew that day. A contribution like wasteland's just reminds me of the extraordinary lengths that some people will go to to warp reality to suit their own unexplainable need for self-delusion.

Long story short our country will go on with or without those who need their conspiracy fix. Soon an an entire generation of Americans that answered their country's (and civilization's) call to arms will return home to live decent lives. They'll do so with their heads held rightfully high, and like those who defended freedom before them they will not suffer fools gladly. No, not gladly at all.

Night will fall on the freaks from Hollyperv; the losers in the mainstream media will be lucky to get a job waving a WILL WHORE MYSELF OUT FOR FOOD sign at a busy intersection; people who believe in fringe element trilateral commission crap will once again be treated as what they are. Contempt earned is contempt deserved. It's been far too long in the coming as far as I'm concerned.

The really good news is that I stumbled upon the ultimate conspiracy just the other day, and it is so absolutely perfect that it is sure to entertain the conspiracy types to the end of their days. It went a little something like this:

"The people who are really to blame for all of our problems are the people of the future. After all they have time machines, and they didn't come back to help us!"

Sadly the author of this pearl of wisdom is unknown to me.
 
Rich,

You know as well as I do that even before 9/11 you could not engage in stock trading on that level anonymously - and the SEC monitors trading in real time to detect abnormal stock trading. Who - by name - sat on it and stonewalled any immediate action as did those others leading up to these events?

Exactly who are these people that engaged in this immediately prior stock trading, and why were they not named and indicted right away? More than three and a half years have past. Funny they didn't waste anytime putting the screws on Martha Stewart for a comparative trivia.

And if I really slay you sometimes, people like Larry Silverstein really deserve a prize. Some of his less absentminded cronies should have reminded him that loose lips sink ships - especially before opening his mouth on national tv. ;)

Still, Larry's beeeeeg mouth was not necessary to know that a "fire" did not bring down WTC building 7. The fires on the 7th and 12th floors (see photo below taken 9/11 at 3pm) were small. Compare this to the raging inferno that engulfed the inferior steel building that burned for more than a full day in Madrid - which was burning white hot inside (see photos below). While some of the upper floors caved in, the structure is only mildly deformed in places.

But an unanswered question is why was building 7 already prepared and wired for demolition prior to the attacks on the two towers? That is, unless of course you believe that one of the toughest steel buildings in NY that was 47 stories high was prepped and ready for a control demolition in "a matter of hours". ;)

And these are a mere two issues. The wackiest conspeewassy theewists in this horrible affair have been the Bush administration and it's spokespeople. If you closely examine the facts, testimony and weigh it with science and history their official story reads like a fairytale; all the way from Hani Luke Skywalker Hanjour to the magic passport.
 

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Im just gonna stay out of this one, do my happy dance.

Besides, me and the Elders got to meet to revise the protocols, ya know what I mean ;) ;)

WildlittlegreenmenAlaska
 
Novus, I'd have to say that I think wasteland's contribution to this thread is entirely appropriate, and I don't agree that it should be altered in any way.
Click to expand...
Once again Fred I agree with most of what you say and you have made some good points in an eloquent way. I still think Wastelands post was innappropiate (to me). I will give an example that happenned to me last night that I think is simillar to what he did: I was at a gun club meeting and they asked us to stand and say the pledge to allegiance to the flag. I cannot say the pledge to allegiance because of the mention of god and I have serious moral reservations about expecting others to recite the pledge as well. I still stood up, took off my hat, and placed my hand on my heart (out of respect for the flag that I have). It would have been innappropriate to have voiced or expressed my moral objections at a moment that others were reciting a pledge that they hold so dear (instead of just the flag and country alone like I do, or a pledge like the pre 1950's pledge that I would be proud to make).

I do see Don Gwinns point about Germany's neo-nazis and the right to free speech and our dutiful obligations to respect it wherever it is not legally protected for the greater good of our society (in the long run) and I now see the reasoning for not deleting the later posts, and I was speaking out of emotion (maybe because of the PTSD that we all have suffered in America), But IZinterrogator was also right when he said that Wasteland should have placed his post in a more appropiate venue or he may have started his own thread. If he wanted to use this thread without violating the history it represented and all of the feelings some or all of us have about it, he should have posted a blank post to bump it up next to his new thread. That way it would have been next to his new one, or he shuld have just linked to this thread.

I agree that what is considered morally appropiate is in the eye of the beholder and to withold someones political views is a form of oppression. I also withdraw my request to have it deleted and I don't want my post requesting that to be deleted as well because it is now a record of my protest to his protest.


"The people who are really to blame for all of our problems are the people of the future. After all they have time machines, and they didn't come back to help us!"
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LOL. :D Stuff like that adds levity to a tense situation such as this one. I thank you for that. :)
 
LAK said:
But an unanswered question is why was building 7 already prepared and wired for demolition prior to the attacks on the two towers?
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Source, please? Or are you relying totally on the alleged use of the special secret code word, "pull" (by a real estate person), as proof that Building 7 was demolished by the Handlers?

Thank goodness he didn't use the words "soft probe" in referring to initial evals of the damage or the phrase, "It was really wet work" in referring to the fire fighting effort. :rolleyes:

How do you possibly sleep nights? I'd require a bunker.
Rich
 
Well, the goosebumps are still on my arms and I've got tears in my eyes..... Having read the first 30 or 40 posts on this thread, it took me back to that day in all its vivid ugliness.
God, do you guys remember the glorious patriotism that spread like red, white and blue fire across this country afterwards? I drove 200 miles that weekend to be with my family, and I remember seeing people on an interstate overpass waving a huge American flag at their countrymen driving below. Sadly, if people did that today, some would think them crazy or extreme.
I, for one, feel energized by reading this thread. My patriotic pilot light has never gone out, but right now I feel like singing the National Anthem and shaking the hand of the next person I see on the street. :)

Please, don't ever, ever close this thread. It's a historic time capsule.
 
"You know as well as I do that even before 9/11 you could not engage in stock trading on that level anonymously - and the SEC monitors trading in real time to detect abnormal stock trading. Who - by name - sat on it and stonewalled any immediate action as did those others leading up to these events?"

I beg your pardon?

Yes, the SEC monitors trading, but do you have any idea as to how many shares are traded every day?

Do you really think that the SEC can, 30 seconds after it happens, detect abnormal stock trading patterns as they are happening, or divine the ulterior motive of the individuals doing the trading?

That's certainly news to two friends of mine who work for the SEC.

If that were the case, how in the world did Martha Stewart fly under the radar for several months before the SEC got around to examining her trades?

Enron ring any bells?

Long-term patterns of fraudulent trading that the SEC never really picked up on until it was FAR too late?

And tell us, just what would those purchases on September 6, and September 7, 2001, have revealed about the impending attack, less than a week later?

To hear many conspiracy theorists tell it, the SEC should have immediately put all of the clues together in what I can only guess would be a blinding flash of insight...

"BOSS! BOSS! This is agent Poodleschnauzer in Chicago! We've got a weird pattern of put and call options on American Airlines!"

"My God, Poodleschnauzer, do you know what this means?"

"I do, boss! I means that Al Queda is putting into motion a plan to send agents onto four, and possibly more, domestic or international flights, hijack them, and crash them into the World Trade Center and Pentagon!"

"Brillian work, Poodleschnauzer. Miss Lotsatatas, get me the President!"

Yeah.

Really.

It DOES work like that. :rolleyes:
 
I think Mike Irwin nailed it, Thanks Mike.

God knows we shouldn't believe the folks actually on the planes who stated
they were being hi jacked by arab terrorist :rolleyes:
 
Rich Lucibella
Source, please? Or are you relying totally on the alleged use of the special secret code word, "pull" (by a real estate person), as proof that Building 7 was demolished by the Handlers?
Click to expand...
Nothing code about it - rather straight from the horse's mouth. Unless of course he was having a flashback to the morning trip to the bathroom; perhaps he has one of the old fashioned type with the cistern up near the ceiling with a chain and always goes in with a friend. It would take alot of hard work to misconstrue his owns words as he spoke them in a filmed interview.

It is interesting that - to my knowledge - there is no mention of the destruction of building 7 in the "independent" Commission report. I'd like to see what the insurance report says.

How do I possibly sleep nights? I sleep very soundly thank you, perhaps sounder than most. There are plenty of people not the least impressed with the official explanations of many aspects surrounding the events of September 11, 2001 - before, during and after - many of them quite conservative, some of them quite highly placed under administrations like Ronald Reagan's in addition to the current one. No doubt they could be accused of not being about to sleep at night too. Some of course sleep very soundly indeed - like John O'Neil.
 
There are plenty of people not the least impressed with the official explanations of many aspects surrounding the events of September 11, 2001 - before, during and after - many of them quite conservative, some of them quite highly placed under administrations like Ronald Reagan's in addition to the current one.
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Not only did you not provide a source for your claim about building 7, you didn't name any of the people you claim to know are "uncomfortable" with the official explanation.
 
[Press PAUSE]

Ah, the cassette player is still switched on!

"[My] claim"? No; it is Mr Larry Silverstein who made that claim on national TV. Not me.

Other people that have not been impressed with the official party line on surrounding issues of September 11, 2001?

Let's start with the FBI's New York head of counter-terrorism John O'Neil. He's dead and not available for future comment of course, but there is more than enough material attributed to him and people who associated with him. Here's a few others, enough to even keep a cassette recorder busy for awhile.

Ray McGovern
David Schippers
Joseph Wilson
Kenneth Williams, FBI
Sibel Edmonds, FBI
John Cole, FBI
Coleen Rowley, FBI
Robert Wright, FBI
John Vincent, FBI
Mark Flessner, Federal Prosecutor

This guy really needs a foil hat; William Rodriguez ....
 

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LAK-
I kinda thought that'd be your source. A Real Estate Developer used the word, "pull" in referring to the abandonment of Building 7 during a national television interview. Some AM Radio guys learned that "pull" is sometimes used as slang in the Explosive Ord Community.

Bingo: We have the cause for the Building 7 collapse. It must have been pre-wired.

Amazing-
The Handlers needed to kill the head of the FBI's NY CT unit to keep him quiet; but they seemed to have missed a wouldn't-be-missed RE Developer who was in on the gig.

They really are slipping these days.
Impressive investigative work, LAK. What's next? The REAL skinny behind Area 51?
Rich
 
I was talking to my neighbor last night, and used the word "PULL" several times as we were attempting to move his disabled Suburban back into its parking space.

I wonder if I was really telling him to demo it... :rolleyes:
 
You know, I just got a real bad image of "pulled pork." I didn't know they made that BBQ by putting demo charges up the pig's butt.
 
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