Punishing felons for the rest of their lives
- Thread starter diana
- Start date
Double Naught Spy
New member
Rich, why should the guy have to peition for restoration of rights after becoming a convicted felon and paying his debt to society? Simple. 1) it is the law, and 2) his debt to society is NOT just his time served. That is sort of where this whole business of being a felony versus being a misdemeanor comes in to play. You can pay off a speeding ticket and be done with it. With a felony, part of the punishment for committing what society and the legal system has deemed to be significant crimes called felonies is that there is a loss of rights. The loss of rights is simply part of the punishment, plain and simple. That aspect of the law was in place when people like diana's husband were committing their felonies. It wasn't like he was issued a misdemeanor citation for a tiny amount of marijuana and between getting cited and paying the fine that the laws changed on him and so he was arrested for a felony when he went to pay the fine. No. The rules of the game were established long before diana's husband played. When he entered the game, he certainly was willing to risk the loss of his rights by engaging in felony activities. It may seem that his infraction was trivial somehow compared to violent crimes, but yet he was stupid enough to engage in such trivial felony activities that could result in his loss of rights if caught. If he was willing to risk his rights and is dumb enough to lose them in such a manner, then he is dumb enough to deal with the consequences of the law as it was when convicted. Why should we work hard to restore rights to felons who voluntarily gave up said rights by committing felonies?
Diana thinks her husband would not have been in trouble this time if he had not had a felony conviction from back when he was young and stupid. Just like being convicted for that first felony where the husband stupidly broke the law, he knew his rights after the felony conviction and again stupidly broke the law again knowing the risks.
Diana is pulling a fat Sally Struthers-like starving children emotional ploy. Going to jail again for two years is going to be hard on his children. If her husband really cared for his children, then why the hell did he break the law again? The suffering of his children isn't because the law is unfair, but because the husband keeps choosing to break the law. In the Sally Struthers case, you have to figure that while taping the commercials that she had a cheesecake in her vehicle, just off camera. The camera man had a sandwhich or two in his vest pockets he could give the kids. As a famous TV personality, Struthers could save 10s of thousands of children on the pennies a day program if she gave up some of her TV wages, but mostly she just donated her fat self to the cause to plead with us to feed the children when she was financially better off than the majority of American society to do it herself.
Save diana's poor children. They will suffer because of the unfair legal system....and yet diana didn't give a darn about criminal rights when she married her felon husband or before having his kids. Obviously the husband could not have cared less as he had 15 years to deal with matters and didn't bother. diana doesn't actually given a darn about criminal rights as they meant nothing to her before her husband got caught again.
In a way, it is a lot like the victims of Katrina who could have left but opted not to leave NOLA before the hurricane hit and then who cried about how horrible the government was for not taking care of them in the manner they felt was appropriate. Of course, there were those who could not leave and I am not referring to them. I am talking about the ones who could have left. You knwo, life is hard, but why should we be concerned with rectifying people's stupid choices when they obviously weren't too concerned about the stupidity of their choices before things went south?
12-34hom, I did not mean to imply that diana was a felon. I wondered if she was because she lamented how her husband could not protect the family with a gun while camping because he was a felon and could not possess guns. I simply didn't understand why she didn't take up the slack to be the family protector with the gun. If she was concerned about the safety of her family and could own a gun, then why didn't she have one?
Diana thinks her husband would not have been in trouble this time if he had not had a felony conviction from back when he was young and stupid. Just like being convicted for that first felony where the husband stupidly broke the law, he knew his rights after the felony conviction and again stupidly broke the law again knowing the risks.
Diana is pulling a fat Sally Struthers-like starving children emotional ploy. Going to jail again for two years is going to be hard on his children. If her husband really cared for his children, then why the hell did he break the law again? The suffering of his children isn't because the law is unfair, but because the husband keeps choosing to break the law. In the Sally Struthers case, you have to figure that while taping the commercials that she had a cheesecake in her vehicle, just off camera. The camera man had a sandwhich or two in his vest pockets he could give the kids. As a famous TV personality, Struthers could save 10s of thousands of children on the pennies a day program if she gave up some of her TV wages, but mostly she just donated her fat self to the cause to plead with us to feed the children when she was financially better off than the majority of American society to do it herself.
Save diana's poor children. They will suffer because of the unfair legal system....and yet diana didn't give a darn about criminal rights when she married her felon husband or before having his kids. Obviously the husband could not have cared less as he had 15 years to deal with matters and didn't bother. diana doesn't actually given a darn about criminal rights as they meant nothing to her before her husband got caught again.
In a way, it is a lot like the victims of Katrina who could have left but opted not to leave NOLA before the hurricane hit and then who cried about how horrible the government was for not taking care of them in the manner they felt was appropriate. Of course, there were those who could not leave and I am not referring to them. I am talking about the ones who could have left. You knwo, life is hard, but why should we be concerned with rectifying people's stupid choices when they obviously weren't too concerned about the stupidity of their choices before things went south?
12-34hom, I did not mean to imply that diana was a felon. I wondered if she was because she lamented how her husband could not protect the family with a gun while camping because he was a felon and could not possess guns. I simply didn't understand why she didn't take up the slack to be the family protector with the gun. If she was concerned about the safety of her family and could own a gun, then why didn't she have one?
Rich Lucibella
Staff
DNS-
I'm not gonna justify this with extended reply. Anyone with a sixth grade Civics education can understand where I'm coming from, had they actually read my posts here. They might disagree, but they would not argue, "Because". That's circular. It argues that if "it's the law", it must be justified.
I argue that knee jerk reaction to be horse hockey.
Today:
You can lose your home because your 15 year old sold a couple lids of pot from it...it happens.
Today:
You can lose your boat or plane because a friend's guest has a gram of cocaine in her duffel....it happens.
Today:
Your single mother, working, ex-wife can lose her automobile because you got oral sex from a hooker in it...and it HAS happened.
And, yes..Today:
You can lose your Second Amendment rights because your spouse beat you to the Court House to obtain the first Protective Order!!!
So, please. Don't lecture me about what "is" and "is not" sentence. Stand back a minute and look at it from a Common Sense view. .Gov may, indeed, be able to monthly increase the crimes and penalties for living in this Nation. But that should NEVER be excuse for using the "Because" rationale. "Because" is the argument of someone who has not thought thru the argument; someone who chooses to rely on what "someone else" decrees as his basis for rational judgment.
- Freedom is Freedom.
- Rights are Rights.
- Stoopid is Stoopid.
The last is inevitably pit against the first two.
Done with this thread now. Carry On.
Rich
Sadly enough, one can do something in a few seconds or minutes that significantly changes his life forever, and he cannot undo it.
I wish we could convince the youth of that fact. Too many hold the law in disdain, or are not interested. They want the freedom to do as they desire, but not the consequences that go with those actions. The refuse to be willing to take responsibility for their actions.
The law in some areas may not be as we think right, but it is the law, and if one is going to disobey then be prepared to take the consequences; many which are tragic and life changing.
The man in question disobeyed the law, and regardless of any attempt to make him a victim or to convince that he was just a young person, and did not realize the consequences, the fact is that he became a felon by what he did. There is essentially no way for most to get that set aside. So live with it, and don't complain since it was in his hands to do as he would as it is with the rest of us.
Sympatahy? Some but not much, it is the way of life and to be expected when one commits a felony.
Jerry
I wish we could convince the youth of that fact. Too many hold the law in disdain, or are not interested. They want the freedom to do as they desire, but not the consequences that go with those actions. The refuse to be willing to take responsibility for their actions.
The law in some areas may not be as we think right, but it is the law, and if one is going to disobey then be prepared to take the consequences; many which are tragic and life changing.
The man in question disobeyed the law, and regardless of any attempt to make him a victim or to convince that he was just a young person, and did not realize the consequences, the fact is that he became a felon by what he did. There is essentially no way for most to get that set aside. So live with it, and don't complain since it was in his hands to do as he would as it is with the rest of us.
Sympatahy? Some but not much, it is the way of life and to be expected when one commits a felony.
Jerry
Garand Illusion
New member
Who here on this board hasn't done something that could result in a felony arrest if the law were applied to the letter (i.e. the speeding laws).
When I worked at a restaurant in H.S. I used to give a guy a ride home who sold drugs for a living. Although I wasn't into drugs, I hung around at his house a couple of evenings thinking I was tough for being around the "bad boys" (and I did hear some interesting and scary stories).
But what if the cops had come busting in? And I was tried as an adult? I'd still be deprived on many rights.
I've got a friend in the dating world who ran afoul of a crazy chick who suddenly decided she didn't like him and filed charges against him. Not a single witness to support her, and she'd done it before (don't know if the other times were legitimate) but he was still advised to plead guilty to avoid jail time. End result: He did nothing, but is branded as a felon for life based on a malicious person with her own insanity. He probably should have fought it, but he was told by legal authorities that if he went to court he would lose to the tearful woman and end up in slammer instead of with a suspended sentence.
I agree there are prices to be paid for the decisions we make, but as a society we need to make sure those prices are justice and not ridiculous whenever possible.
Or we'll all, eventually, pay the price -- because all of us have broken a law or two at sometime or another.
When I worked at a restaurant in H.S. I used to give a guy a ride home who sold drugs for a living. Although I wasn't into drugs, I hung around at his house a couple of evenings thinking I was tough for being around the "bad boys" (and I did hear some interesting and scary stories).
But what if the cops had come busting in? And I was tried as an adult? I'd still be deprived on many rights.
I've got a friend in the dating world who ran afoul of a crazy chick who suddenly decided she didn't like him and filed charges against him. Not a single witness to support her, and she'd done it before (don't know if the other times were legitimate) but he was still advised to plead guilty to avoid jail time. End result: He did nothing, but is branded as a felon for life based on a malicious person with her own insanity. He probably should have fought it, but he was told by legal authorities that if he went to court he would lose to the tearful woman and end up in slammer instead of with a suspended sentence.
I agree there are prices to be paid for the decisions we make, but as a society we need to make sure those prices are justice and not ridiculous whenever possible.
Or we'll all, eventually, pay the price -- because all of us have broken a law or two at sometime or another.
This is good.
Tough. Be a better parent and control your animal kids.
Tough. Stop hanging around with losers.
Tough. Don't shack up with an idiot who can't keep his penis in his pants.
Blame your legislators. Vote.
As I stated so eloquently before: Personal responsibility is a bitch. There are consequences for poor choices.
I haven't. Not breaking laws is not that hard. Don't salve your guilty conscience by trying to project your guilt on to me.
I swear to God, sometimes I wonder what planet some of you people are from.
Tough. Be a better parent and control your animal kids.
Tough. Stop hanging around with losers.
Tough. Don't shack up with an idiot who can't keep his penis in his pants.
Blame your legislators. Vote.
As I stated so eloquently before: Personal responsibility is a bitch. There are consequences for poor choices.
I haven't. Not breaking laws is not that hard. Don't salve your guilty conscience by trying to project your guilt on to me.
I swear to God, sometimes I wonder what planet some of you people are from.
Garand Illusion
New member
Wow. You are my hero.
I've never actually broken a law that would make me a felon, but I've been in situations where I might have been accused of being one. I have driven pretty fast at times, but I don't think Colo has a felony law (not longer matters, since I'm a laid back driver now).
But ... that situation I described with on my friend and the crazy chick could happen to anyone. It could happen to you.
If it does ... I guess tough. But you'll no longer be a member of the thin blue line or even a gun owner.
Mostly I understand what you're saying ... there are consequences and we vote people in to office who decide what those consequences are.
First of all, I agree with this: the gentleman should have been able to have his record expunged. I bet if he would have gone back to court with a good record, it might have happened.
Next question:
Just HOW did the police happen to contact your husband? What were the circumstances leading up to the stop? What reasonable suspicion was articulated, that caused the officer to even THINK about looking into the backpack?
How did the cops know that you were even OUT THERE?
In short, what actually happened?
Next question:
Just HOW did the police happen to contact your husband? What were the circumstances leading up to the stop? What reasonable suspicion was articulated, that caused the officer to even THINK about looking into the backpack?
How did the cops know that you were even OUT THERE?
In short, what actually happened?
Sir William
New member
I have a friend who is an alcoholic sot. He has several DUI arrests and has done community service and jumped through all of the hoops to keep from being a felon. His time is coming or he may end someones life first. I think DUI should be a FELONY from the getgo. I buried a brother in blue that was killed by a DUI in the 70s. I have malice aforethought for DUIs. I have another friend who took the plug out of his bird shotgun, went hunting while intoxicated with an unplugged shotgun and he was caught by a game warden. Felony conviction. I have 0 sympathy for him. I have a pharmacist friend who illegally sold Schedule 3 narcotics. He was convicted of felony charges and played golf in Florida. 0 sympathy. Don't DO the crime and you won't serve time. I have 0 sympathy for any felony drug offenders. I will say that this stinks of a frame/set up.
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
It is apparent that MRex21 believes in guilt by association. This makes me hope that he's not a part of our judicial system. :barf:
No.
I believe that there are consequences for actions and repercussions to poor decision making.
Are you saying, as a moderator, that you don't believe people should be responsible for their actions?
Not commiting crimes is not that hard. Want guns? Don't commit a crime.
Which part of that are you not grasping?
DonR101395
New member
+1 MRex
WillBrayjr
Moderator
Everybody commits crimes, anything you can think of has some stupid law attached to it. Some laws are needed most aren't. Example: Calling someone a stuck up bitch and you could end up getting arrested for slander. The cold hard fact is there's probably as many laws as there are people living in the USA.
TheBluesMan
Moderator Emeritus
MRex -
Your response to a parent losing his home because his minor child sold pot was: Tough. Be a better parent and control your animal kids. The parent is guilty by association - *some* responsibility is understandable here, but not losing one's home.
Your response to a person losing his vehicle because a friend of a friend was carrying drugs was: Tough. Stop hanging around with losers. Guilt by association. Do you strip search everyone who gets into your car? Should you be held responsible for their crime?
Your response to a woman losing her car because her husband was using it for sex was: Tough. Don't shack up with an idiot... Guilt by association. Do you know *everything* your wife does when she borrows your car? Should you be held responsible for her actions?
I'm not saying that one should not be held responsible for one's actions. I'm saying that people shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of others - an assertion to which your statements above run contrary.
Your response to a parent losing his home because his minor child sold pot was: Tough. Be a better parent and control your animal kids. The parent is guilty by association - *some* responsibility is understandable here, but not losing one's home.
Your response to a person losing his vehicle because a friend of a friend was carrying drugs was: Tough. Stop hanging around with losers. Guilt by association. Do you strip search everyone who gets into your car? Should you be held responsible for their crime?
Your response to a woman losing her car because her husband was using it for sex was: Tough. Don't shack up with an idiot... Guilt by association. Do you know *everything* your wife does when she borrows your car? Should you be held responsible for her actions?
I'm not saying that one should not be held responsible for one's actions. I'm saying that people shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of others - an assertion to which your statements above run contrary.
Bad parents raise bad kids. Bad parents choose to be bad parents. Bad parents don't punish or correct their spawn. Children are not legally responsible for their actions. Consequently, the parents are responsible for their hellion larvae raping and pilliaging. There are consequences for bad decisions regardless of intentions.
I don't hang out with doper trash. I don't hang out with people who hang out with doper trash. My car. My choice. My control. My responsibility. It is not that hard.
Don't even try to suggest that a woman does not know the nefarious habits of her philandering husband. She knew. She saw signs. She chose to stay with him regardless. Choice - Consequence.
Respectfully, I disagree.
Rich: Let's look on the bright side of the "lifetime sentence" thing. If felons were not precluded from voting, then our gun rights would be even more in jeopardy, for, as EVERYBODY knows, an overwhelming majority of felons would vote Democrat, if they voted. 
I know we're just playing with semantics here, but the definition of a "felon" is somebody who's been convicted of a felony, not sombody who might be a felon, were he caught in an act that might be interpreted as felonious.
I know we're just playing with semantics here, but the definition of a "felon" is somebody who's been convicted of a felony, not sombody who might be a felon, were he caught in an act that might be interpreted as felonious.
What are the chances that recidivism rates are higher due to the fact that once convicted of a felony all you can ever be is a second class citizen.
many job opportunities are closed to you
I have heard that a felon cannot be employed in the medical field, no matter what the felony was.
In Fla a felon cannot even be employed in pest control, no matter what the felony was or what the position is.
If a prison sentence is not for rehab then it is only for revenge, how does that help society
many job opportunities are closed to you
I have heard that a felon cannot be employed in the medical field, no matter what the felony was.
In Fla a felon cannot even be employed in pest control, no matter what the felony was or what the position is.
If a prison sentence is not for rehab then it is only for revenge, how does that help society