Primary Home Defense Weapon System

I have said it, and I will say it again:

AR-15/M16

Even though the AR rifles pose a certain, uhm, reliability concern in sandy/dirty climates (like where I live ), in an urban environment this is minimal. No sand in an appartment building (hopefully),

The .223 caliber poses less overpenetration troubles than the most common handgun calibers due to the tendency of the round to destabilize in-flight.

Furthermore, the .223 rifle allows for bigger ammunition capacity (did I hear anybody whisper double C-mag ?) than the ordinary shotgun. Ditto for a rate-of-fire, where the .223 can fire as fast as you can pull the trigger.

Moreove, the .223 rifle can be customized to death - an option available with shotguns too, but less so than with an AR-15/M-16 rifle.
 
The only time I have ever heard of a multitude of people breaking in a door and swarming a house is when SWAT does it, or it is a drug related gang thing.
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I certainly have heard of such things. My favorite was this story:

A certain Arab couple in East Jerusalem filmed themselves having sex and sold the tapes to a compay. :eek: Eventually, some neighbour recognised them on tape. The rumour spread, and soon enough, a mob of East-Jerusalemites assembled to punish the infidel evildoers.

The police had to call in the Border Patrol (heavily armed paramilitary polce, they do more than protect the borders here) to protect those guys.

Now, tell me, did that couple need an AR or three? :D
 
FirstFreedom & others: I agree about the handgun choice for indoor spaces. I'm thinking aobut getting myself a 1911, but I don't want to spend an arm and a leg on another pistol. Any suggestions for a reasonable & reliable .45ACP, 1911 style or otherwise? Anyone know anything about Rock Island Armory?

Quartus: Yeah, I know my area. It's hard for me to believe that most places in America are worse than Lake City in Seattle, Washington. Unless you live in Newark or something, you really don't have anything to fear but fear itself. Take my word for it, any BG who breaks into houses professionally isn't going to be armed, unless he's expecting trouble. And by the way, what's wrong with double taps and shotguns? It seems to me that if your twelve gauge slug can't stop a man dead in his tracks, you might as well throw your shotgun at him and light him up with hollow-point pistol rounds, or the AR you ingeniously attempt to disguise with a lampshade by your bedside. Then next time, try magnum slugs or triplotbukshot. :D

MicroBalrog: What the hell you talking about? :confused: Do you have a link to an article about that incident? I check the international news on a frequent basis for things like that and I'd love to read that story, if you have it.
 
I do not have a link to an article, no.
(I wasn't reading the local papers back then), my Hebrew teacher told me about it when it happened (I was in the final grade of High School.

Many local events do not attract international attention, mind you.
 
My always gun is a S&w 642 when wandering around the house. I keep a rem 870 cruiser ready with 5 00 buck shells in the tube, with 6 on the saddle, and 6 slugs on the buttcuff. That is my primary, fight my way to it, home defense arm. The j-frame is just to give me something to get to it. I also keep my ar15 ready to go inside the safe. That gets pulled out when the 870 is being cleaned, or for higher levels of trouble(Had a group of local hoodlums making some ruckus outside a few months back, and I pulled out the ar from the safe until the cops arrived).
 
Quartus: Yeah, I know my area. It's hard for me to believe that most places in America are worse than Lake City in Seattle, Washington. Unless you live in Newark or something, you really don't have anything to fear but fear itself. Take my word for it, any BG who breaks into houses professionally isn't going to be armed, unless he's expecting trouble.
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Nice to live in such a peaceful area! Good for you! Many cities aren't that way. Most home invasion robberies are fast and include multiple armed intruders, and shooting the occupants is more common than not. At least in most big cities in America.


And by the way, what's wrong with double taps and shotguns? It seems to me that if your twelve gauge slug can't stop a man dead in his tracks, you might as well throw your shotgun at him and light him up with hollow-point pistol rounds, or the AR you ingeniously attempt to disguise with a lampshade by your bedside. Then next time, try magnum slugs or triplotbukshot.
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Or try learing from the pros, instead of Hollywood. Spend some time on that link I suggested, for example. Hey, it's FREE! Knowlegeable firearms instructors don't teach double tap or triple tap anymore, they teach shoot until the threat is stopped. The reason for that is that human beings have this nasty habit of not dropping like a sack of potatoes when shot, even though we all learned from TV that we should. The sad truth is that people who are shot very often continue to fight, and sometimes succeed in killing the person who shot them. Now, if you don't want to be the person who gets killed, it makes sense to learn from reality and do the things that maximize your chances of surviving. THere's nothing you can do to GUARANTEE your survival, but there are things you can do to better your chances. Shooting until the threat is stopped gives you a better chance than double taps.

Not living in a Hollywood world is the best thing you can do, of course.

Oh, and shotguns are great - I'm a big fan of them. But I know they aren't magic.
 
Way fun thread to ponder on!

From my personal standpoint, I go with the handgun to start with. As a lot of people have mentioned earlier, the handgun is the most likely to be available in a moment's notice and it's the weapon we all practice with on a regular basis. When's the last time anyone here ran a combat course with their shottie? AR's are nice, but I don't own one, yet.

What do I prefer? Well, I'm going with a Top O' da Line Browning Hi Power in the venerable 9mm Luger. Why? Accuracy, capacity, reliability, maneuverability. It is soon to be stored in a Lou Alessi Bodyguard ShoHo, so I can grab it and move if necessary. Combine this with a good light like the Pelican M6/M6 LED, or the Surefire 6P/G2, and you have a good fighting chance. Penetration? That's definitely an issue in my world, but I have to compromise on everything.

What's my fallback? When it gets back from the shop, it will be my Colt 45 M1991. I keep this in my dutybelt with two spare mags and a Surefire 6P, so I can grab it and move if I need to, just like the BHP.

I would like to have a Vang Comp shotgun, and might head this route very soon as I think a man should have one of everything. But I have to look at what I am most familiar with and can move most easily with.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned, or which I haven't seen, is the use of body armor. I have the vest and outer carrier from work and could easily see me donning this before moving to investigate. It might be outdated, but I'd rather be wearing a degraded IIIA vest when I'm shot than not. It sure can't hurt, right?!

I think it was Mas Ayoob that mentioned how convenient such a vest was because it allowed you to store fighting tools in the pockets and have protection. I'm shopping for another carrier that's more modular, but the pockets I do have hold a flashlight and a couple of Cylume sticks as well as some loaded magazines. You could also fill the pockets with some sheets of aluminum to increase the penetration resistance.

Just my thoughts.
 
Hmmm. I'm thinking old Art may have some competition for the Calvin Coolidge award.


New guy's first post and all he gives us is TWO WORDS!! :eek:


:D


Welcome aboard, 3phase! New guy buys a round of ammo! :D


Is that 3phase, as in AC power?
 
I started this thread 18 months ago, I can't believe it was resurrected. Boy do things change.

I took Gabe's Close Range Gunfighting course and then his Interactive Gunfighting class. (FOF) Since then I have rethought some things.

I will have to change my primary weapon back to my Glock 17. It is with me 90% of the time. It will be the gun I grab if I hear breaking glass at night. In most cases I would have to secure family members and the handgun would be the best tool to use in that case. JMO

If the family members are secured and I can take up a barricaded position, my wife would use the Mossberg 590A1 and I would go with my AR 15.
 
It's amazing how taking that first real combat class will change your "learned all I know from shooting with buddies and reading gun rags, and maybe a few years in the Army" thinking, isn't it?
 
ahhhhh.......

Colt Government model for the house. Colt LW Officer's model for the robe pocket. Colt CCO as duty and cary gun....by bed whilst sleeping. A ParaOrd LDA Companion and Kahr PM9 are Milady's tools. Mags for the 1911 collection are stashed in several places. I have a couple of rifles(M-N M44 and Ruger 10/22) that are not suitable for HD really, no AR's or AK's....not expecting a home invasion from the First Crackhead Battalion.
Reasons: Familiarity, simplicity, ones that I have. Distances are very close. The area is built up and heavily populated. I feel comfortable with my handguns...though I will add a semiauto centerfire rifle to the collectiom oneday....it is more for field than home, IMHO. If I lived way out in the stick's though, the rifle would be backed up by 1911's.
Jercamp45
 
Various 1911's, BHP's, P7's, and Makarovs scattered throughout the house. I think that shotguns and rifles have their place; but handguns are "handy"; which is their primary virtue. Long guns are not as maneuverable in tight places, and it is really hard to stick them in my bathrobe pocket.
 
The first gun I would reach for would have to be my glock 22. After that,depending on the seriousness of the threat I would go to an m4(eotech sight,flat top,full length picatinny rails with tactical light and laser sight, silencer for inside work) carbine with a 2 30 round mags taped together....loaded with ballistic tip ammo so it will be sure to have explosive results. I have read all the posts about the lack of power of the 223 but honestly I don't know of any man that could take multiple hits at under 10 yrds from a 223 with an Expandible/fragmenting type bullet. And to those saying that the shotgun doesn't require that many hits...that's true, Hit someone with a load of anything under 10 yrds and yes, they will be dead. At that close the best thing to use would probably be bird shot.....really really ugly wound. To me though,I would rather have something I can make follow up shots on very quickly( eotech sight helps significantly)and has a larger capacity. They way I look at it is this....I'd rather have a loaded weapon than an empty one....and you will run out of ammo with the SG much faster than with the AR.
 
At times I've pondered the following as well:

Threat is inside: Grab handgun
Threat is outside: Grab longgun, but don't venture out unless there is evidence that it is safe or some extenuating circumstance warrants stepping outside. As to whether that should be a carbine or shotty, that's a tough call.
 
Hmmm...

A little over a year and a half ago, I said:

Closest to hand: Beretta 96D
Next closest to hand: Remington 870
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The Beretta is now gone, and the current "bed gun" is a Model 64 .38 Special loaded with... um... something hollow-pointy and +Pish, I'm sure.

The long gun is still the 870, with the goofy top-folding stock removed in a rare moment of sanity, and some ghost rings added during an even rarer moment of affluence. Should another one of those "affluence" moments swing by again, I swear I'm gonna build that AR carbine I've been nattering about for the past three or four years (somehow, every time I've had the fundage handy, there's some work to be done on a 1911, or a S&W or cosmoline-caked old crock of a milsurp comes along that I just have to buy. :o ) Anyhow, when and if I finish that shorty AR, it'll prob'ly replace the 870 as the indoors long gun.

Truthfully, though, my primary line of defense is that I'm near the end of a windy little dead end road in the woods, a road where everybody knows each other and phones ring when something "smells funny," and a bad guy would have to be lost, or completely unhinged to find my house in the first place.
 
My primary home defense is a door lock. After that there's a demon chiuaua(sp?), and after that he gets a dose of 12 gauge.
 
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