President Bush (Part 2)
- Thread starter rhgunguy
- Start date
In my book conservative has always been right. There are crooks in the GOP, but other than that they were almost always right. Then W came along. Now we are in bed Saudis, owe our future to the CHinese government, and are invaded by the Southern neighbor. Sorry, he didn't do a thing right. He wants to give illegals visas, more American jobs to Asia and South America, and give in to the Gun banners. What in that is conservative?
marks655
Oh boy. I hope that it wasn't an implication of Clinton having to do much with all that financial prosperity, and if there is - should I remind that stock market went to gutters before W stepped into the office, i.e. on Clinton's clock?
mmm... what do you mean? he tried and failed at that last one, didn't he?
Rimrock
This one actually made me chuckle. Not only because statement like that regarding a high level politician sounds very naive, but also because it's Clinton-The-Lying-King. I'm sure he felt Milosevich's pain as the later was dying in prison seven years after bombing of his country. Not that I'm a big fan of Milosevich, but fact remains: years of trial by unfriendly and determined tribunal proved nothing. What does it make Clinton, and shouldn't he replace Milosevich in that cell?
There is one thing where Clinton absolutely excels though. He is a smooth talker and brilliant at manipulating public opinion.
Oh boy. I hope that it wasn't an implication of Clinton having to do much with all that financial prosperity, and if there is - should I remind that stock market went to gutters before W stepped into the office, i.e. on Clinton's clock?
mmm... what do you mean? he tried and failed at that last one, didn't he?
Rimrock
This one actually made me chuckle. Not only because statement like that regarding a high level politician sounds very naive, but also because it's Clinton-The-Lying-King. I'm sure he felt Milosevich's pain as the later was dying in prison seven years after bombing of his country. Not that I'm a big fan of Milosevich, but fact remains: years of trial by unfriendly and determined tribunal proved nothing. What does it make Clinton, and shouldn't he replace Milosevich in that cell?
There is one thing where Clinton absolutely excels though. He is a smooth talker and brilliant at manipulating public opinion.
Ask 20 investors how they did under Clinton vs President "Mission Accomplished."
News Flash! The market was higher on 10-11-01(a month after the tragedy) than it was duriing most of the remainder of his first term. Markets can sense a bad agent!
Thanks! It was supposed to! I'm workin' hard here!
If you liked that one try these. W' isms! Each one a genuine pearl from the World's most incompetent leader!
"I think war's a dangerous place!"
"Nobody can threaten this country!...Oh, they may be able to bomb our buildings"
"You're free and freedom is beautiful and it'll take time to restore Chaos"!
"We can not let terrorist hold our nation hostile"!
"I couldn't imagine someone like Bin Laden understanding the joys of Hanukkah"
"Poor people aren't necessarily killers
Just "cause" you're poor doesn't mean you'll kill"What an embarassment!
Bring back the days of the hefty hummer!
Rimrock
The most damning legacy of a President is presiding over economic problems. The current administraton is carefully monitoring and controlling the rate of inflation, and international trade is the key. A concern for the consequences of imposing radical immigration controls is a big part of that too. Immigrants who are already here are part of the economy, and their children are US citizens.
Based upon a good recovery of the stock market, Bush earns high marks for maintaining the confidence or optimism required for prosperity. His expressed concern about the UAE port terminal management deal reflects a concern for economics (macro). I think he is exactly right and that we haven't seen the last of the consequences of casting a cloud over international trade relations.
I am still waiting for Condi Rice to address the diplomatic mess that has been created by congressional interference and this newly outed prejudice against Arabs and Muslims and the desire to use cultural profiling in picking trading partners. Meanwhile China keeps rolling, no problem...no hypocrisy there
The Pentagon would have a concern about ports in Dubai and the proximity to the Straits of Hormuz. The President and the Cabinet members or delegates that made the ports decision were simply being responsible about building or preserving a valuable status quo. If there really was a problem with UAE, they should not have been in an eligible status.
Congress makes George Bush look really good, the only one on the high road.
Based upon a good recovery of the stock market, Bush earns high marks for maintaining the confidence or optimism required for prosperity. His expressed concern about the UAE port terminal management deal reflects a concern for economics (macro). I think he is exactly right and that we haven't seen the last of the consequences of casting a cloud over international trade relations.
I am still waiting for Condi Rice to address the diplomatic mess that has been created by congressional interference and this newly outed prejudice against Arabs and Muslims and the desire to use cultural profiling in picking trading partners. Meanwhile China keeps rolling, no problem...no hypocrisy there
The Pentagon would have a concern about ports in Dubai and the proximity to the Straits of Hormuz. The President and the Cabinet members or delegates that made the ports decision were simply being responsible about building or preserving a valuable status quo. If there really was a problem with UAE, they should not have been in an eligible status.
Congress makes George Bush look really good, the only one on the high road.
Guess I need to pay more attention to the news. Is there any disaster or problem that has happened in the last century that GWB isn't responsible?
Without Clinton, there would be no 9/11 or Iraq. Basing presidential decisions on the polls is what created this mess. At least Bush can make decisions on his own, even unpopular ones. He let's you know where he stands and you know in advance what he is going to do. If you don't like his policies, vote democrat this November. If the democrats take over congress, Bush won't be able to do anything.
Without Clinton, there would be no 9/11 or Iraq. Basing presidential decisions on the polls is what created this mess. At least Bush can make decisions on his own, even unpopular ones. He let's you know where he stands and you know in advance what he is going to do. If you don't like his policies, vote democrat this November. If the democrats take over congress, Bush won't be able to do anything.
Bush has been pretty much so so, pretty much like JFK & Ike.
Clinton was and is a pathological liar,,,and not quite all there so to speak.
His speeches are a perfect example of this.
He invents people that don't exist in one speech, then a few weeks later,,, to prove some point he's trying to make,,,he refers back to those invented people as if they are real.
The one instance I remember best is where he tells of a Sgt. rushing across an airfield to shake his hand?!?!?
Supposedly this happened (in of all places - Bosnia & during the fighting taking place there).
Can any sane person believe the SS would allow that?
Clinton was and is a pathological liar,,,and not quite all there so to speak.
His speeches are a perfect example of this.
He invents people that don't exist in one speech, then a few weeks later,,, to prove some point he's trying to make,,,he refers back to those invented people as if they are real.
The one instance I remember best is where he tells of a Sgt. rushing across an airfield to shake his hand?!?!?
Supposedly this happened (in of all places - Bosnia & during the fighting taking place there).
Can any sane person believe the SS would allow that?
By Eghad
I don't know where your news is coming from regarding this "going through anyway", last I heard UAE is selling their contract to an American Company, if they find one. Irony....the only American company capable of handling the job is Haliburton.
Again the wiretapping is/was used to gain enemy intelligence during a time of war. There will be no prosecutions based on any of the wiretap intelligence. Unlike the previous administration this one is not interested in indicting terrorists or treating terrorism as a law enforcement issue. What did the Clinton Admin do about UBL? Issued arrest warrants so the next time UBL flew in to take in a Broadway show or go to Disney World he could be arrested.
The VA is a money pit and has been for decades. It is similar to public schools in that on a cost per patient basis the VA spends more and provides less than private health care. The Medicare system is much more cost effective than the VA because it is merely an insurance program, the actual treating of patients comes from private medicine.
This just makes me laugh. My dad sold Medicare supplement insurance for 20 years. Seniors have always been confused about Medicare. Those who are most confused are the same ones who will give a nice sounding telemarketer their Name, SS #, Bank account information, credit card billing info including the 3 digit # on the back of their card.
The prescription part would be lauded as a huge victory if it would have been enacted by the previous admin.
When are the "tell us and the World your plan people" going to wake up and smell the coffee, THIS IS A WAR. You are not going to know the plan until it is being executed, the plan changes with the actions and reactions of the enemy. We will cut back our presence when it is time and hopefully not before.
The last administration invited enemy (or at least not friendly) Governments over to tour our nuclear power plants and defense facilities in the "Technology Exchange" program. The only technology exchanged was us giving ours away.
This is one of the non-sense battle crys of the Dems. Every administration keeps secrets, this one is no different or worse than any other. Think back to the Clinton admin. can you think of any secrets there? If not you must have just fallen into the political loop and wasn't paying attention during BC years.
These oil companies are PRIVATE BUSINESSES what part of that do you not understand. There should be "some stuff in the program" requiring your employer to.... fill in the blank.No there shouldn't. Whats more if it wasn't for the Lib. extremists there may be more refineries, domestic production, nuclear power plants, wind farms, ethanol plants, etc. There is no source of energy that the left will not fight. California is a prime example. Ran by Dems for decades, black outs and brown outs because the state cannot produce enough energy to run itself because there is no energy production method which the light burning, car driving, mall shopping Dems in California will not protest and threaten years of legal challenges to.
I give GWB...
A For crippling terrorism in this country. No attacks since 911, and not from lack of desire.
B For biting the bullet and cracking down on fictitious accounting practices on Wall Street even though the Admin knew this would cause short term market instability. The long term is a more credible, stable US market. The previous admin. just rode the magic carpet and over looked obvious flaws in accounting procedures.
A Middle East policies. This admin understands that the philosophies of this part of the world has no respect for noodle spines. Somalia fueled the fire of "Weak America" in the Mid East, this blunder has cost more American lives than any other in recent history. If it were up to the left we would run out of Afghanistan and Iraq as fast as BC vacated the African Continent....look were that got us.
When Bush took office there were daily bombings by Palestinians in Israel, there is still violence, nothing compared to the late 80's and early 90s.
B Second amendment. It has been a lot of work undoing the damage done by the previous administration.
D Patriot Act. I would give a much higher grade to this act if there were not talk about expanding provisions in this act to domestic law enforcement issues.
D Immigration. Listening to the platforms on this issue from both parties is disappointing. We are no better or worse off now than we would be with a Dem in office. I do think this will be one of the biggest political footballs in the next election and we will see some change in the next administration regardless of party.
I don't know where your news is coming from regarding this "going through anyway", last I heard UAE is selling their contract to an American Company, if they find one. Irony....the only American company capable of handling the job is Haliburton.
Again the wiretapping is/was used to gain enemy intelligence during a time of war. There will be no prosecutions based on any of the wiretap intelligence. Unlike the previous administration this one is not interested in indicting terrorists or treating terrorism as a law enforcement issue. What did the Clinton Admin do about UBL? Issued arrest warrants so the next time UBL flew in to take in a Broadway show or go to Disney World he could be arrested.
The VA is a money pit and has been for decades. It is similar to public schools in that on a cost per patient basis the VA spends more and provides less than private health care. The Medicare system is much more cost effective than the VA because it is merely an insurance program, the actual treating of patients comes from private medicine.
This just makes me laugh. My dad sold Medicare supplement insurance for 20 years. Seniors have always been confused about Medicare. Those who are most confused are the same ones who will give a nice sounding telemarketer their Name, SS #, Bank account information, credit card billing info including the 3 digit # on the back of their card.
The prescription part would be lauded as a huge victory if it would have been enacted by the previous admin.
When are the "tell us and the World your plan people" going to wake up and smell the coffee, THIS IS A WAR. You are not going to know the plan until it is being executed, the plan changes with the actions and reactions of the enemy. We will cut back our presence when it is time and hopefully not before.
The last administration invited enemy (or at least not friendly) Governments over to tour our nuclear power plants and defense facilities in the "Technology Exchange" program. The only technology exchanged was us giving ours away.
This is one of the non-sense battle crys of the Dems. Every administration keeps secrets, this one is no different or worse than any other. Think back to the Clinton admin. can you think of any secrets there? If not you must have just fallen into the political loop and wasn't paying attention during BC years.
These oil companies are PRIVATE BUSINESSES what part of that do you not understand. There should be "some stuff in the program" requiring your employer to.... fill in the blank.No there shouldn't. Whats more if it wasn't for the Lib. extremists there may be more refineries, domestic production, nuclear power plants, wind farms, ethanol plants, etc. There is no source of energy that the left will not fight. California is a prime example. Ran by Dems for decades, black outs and brown outs because the state cannot produce enough energy to run itself because there is no energy production method which the light burning, car driving, mall shopping Dems in California will not protest and threaten years of legal challenges to.
I give GWB...
A For crippling terrorism in this country. No attacks since 911, and not from lack of desire.
B For biting the bullet and cracking down on fictitious accounting practices on Wall Street even though the Admin knew this would cause short term market instability. The long term is a more credible, stable US market. The previous admin. just rode the magic carpet and over looked obvious flaws in accounting procedures.
A Middle East policies. This admin understands that the philosophies of this part of the world has no respect for noodle spines. Somalia fueled the fire of "Weak America" in the Mid East, this blunder has cost more American lives than any other in recent history. If it were up to the left we would run out of Afghanistan and Iraq as fast as BC vacated the African Continent....look were that got us.
When Bush took office there were daily bombings by Palestinians in Israel, there is still violence, nothing compared to the late 80's and early 90s.
B Second amendment. It has been a lot of work undoing the damage done by the previous administration.
D Patriot Act. I would give a much higher grade to this act if there were not talk about expanding provisions in this act to domestic law enforcement issues.
D Immigration. Listening to the platforms on this issue from both parties is disappointing. We are no better or worse off now than we would be with a Dem in office. I do think this will be one of the biggest political footballs in the next election and we will see some change in the next administration regardless of party.
posted by Rimrock
It's down to 19, I'll reserve one seat for myself as one of the twenty. Here is a bit of news: goverments can't improve economy, although they can screw it up by regulating, overregulating, and subsidizing. Glorifying Clinton for the prosperity of mid-late 90-s - which happened to be substantiated by the biggest economical baloon most lifetimes have ever seen or will see - makes as little sense as blaming Bush for it's eventual explosion, especially that - I dare to remind again - it also happened on Clinton's watch. I happened to have lived in Silicon Valley at that time. One had to be a complete moron to not see how overinflated things were, and how it would soon come to an end. For mother's sake, companies were appraised based on numbers of people they employed rather than products they were making to make math simpler.
If you still feel that revolutionary hi-tech advances that were the true cause of the prosperity were Clinton's accomplishment, you may also throw Al Gore into the mix: afterall, he invented the internet. According to him, anyway.
Clinton's legacy has caused more long term damage to this country than you may imagine, 9/11 being a popular example. Although I admire Clinton on a personal level in a morbid kind of way: he left mess behind himself, yet gets no charge or accountability. Talk about being a brilliant politician.
As for your economical data... Let me try a guessing game here, I won't even bother to go shuffling through history files - unless of course you choose to argue. It appears that you looked into data, and apparently didn't like it, why manipulate it otherwise? Why did you have to mention 10-11-01? not 8-11-01, or 7-11-01, or 11-11-01, or 01-01-01, the very beginning of W presidential term if you are so insistant on presidents making economy? Instead - again, I didn't even go looking, I'm just guessing here - you picked one of the best if not the best month in a year (mind you, 9 month after W stepped into the office) and then stated the obvious -- that it was up there on the overall scheme (surprise, surprise). Did I guess right? While we are on the topic, can you also show economical trends from 1/2001 (Bush stepped into the office) until now? Results may be surprising to some.
So, how about Milosevich who died not guilty due to medical negigence in Hague jail? What kind of message about US do you think it sends to the world? But, to compensate, at least Clinton created a criminal-ridden, hard-core muslim state in place of what part of Yugoslavia used to be.
I don't like Bush much. He manages to create a police state while keeping control of boarders down, and his approach to international politics was a fiasco. However, if you want to see a true monster, look no further than intelligent looking, soft spoken, sax playing Bill Clinton - love of life of bored housewives across America.
Oh, did I say "vote Libertarian" yet?
It's down to 19, I'll reserve one seat for myself as one of the twenty. Here is a bit of news: goverments can't improve economy, although they can screw it up by regulating, overregulating, and subsidizing. Glorifying Clinton for the prosperity of mid-late 90-s - which happened to be substantiated by the biggest economical baloon most lifetimes have ever seen or will see - makes as little sense as blaming Bush for it's eventual explosion, especially that - I dare to remind again - it also happened on Clinton's watch. I happened to have lived in Silicon Valley at that time. One had to be a complete moron to not see how overinflated things were, and how it would soon come to an end. For mother's sake, companies were appraised based on numbers of people they employed rather than products they were making to make math simpler.
If you still feel that revolutionary hi-tech advances that were the true cause of the prosperity were Clinton's accomplishment, you may also throw Al Gore into the mix: afterall, he invented the internet. According to him, anyway.
Clinton's legacy has caused more long term damage to this country than you may imagine, 9/11 being a popular example. Although I admire Clinton on a personal level in a morbid kind of way: he left mess behind himself, yet gets no charge or accountability. Talk about being a brilliant politician.
As for your economical data... Let me try a guessing game here, I won't even bother to go shuffling through history files - unless of course you choose to argue. It appears that you looked into data, and apparently didn't like it, why manipulate it otherwise? Why did you have to mention 10-11-01? not 8-11-01, or 7-11-01, or 11-11-01, or 01-01-01, the very beginning of W presidential term if you are so insistant on presidents making economy? Instead - again, I didn't even go looking, I'm just guessing here - you picked one of the best if not the best month in a year (mind you, 9 month after W stepped into the office) and then stated the obvious -- that it was up there on the overall scheme (surprise, surprise). Did I guess right? While we are on the topic, can you also show economical trends from 1/2001 (Bush stepped into the office) until now? Results may be surprising to some.
So, how about Milosevich who died not guilty due to medical negigence in Hague jail? What kind of message about US do you think it sends to the world? But, to compensate, at least Clinton created a criminal-ridden, hard-core muslim state in place of what part of Yugoslavia used to be.
I don't like Bush much. He manages to create a police state while keeping control of boarders down, and his approach to international politics was a fiasco. However, if you want to see a true monster, look no further than intelligent looking, soft spoken, sax playing Bill Clinton - love of life of bored housewives across America.
Oh, did I say "vote Libertarian" yet?
I will say since Bush has been the president, It's nice to have adults running the country again. Another way to gauge how Bush is doing is to watch the media throw child like temper tantrums at white house press conferences, or struggle to make up stories that never happened- Dan Rather and the national guard.
Bill Clinton and the flower power crowd have little to show for, and don't forget he had a strong conservative congress to keep out of too much trouble.
Bill Clinton and the flower power crowd have little to show for, and don't forget he had a strong conservative congress to keep out of too much trouble.
Baba Louie
New member
Compared to an Al Gore or John Kerry administration... thank goodness we'll ne'er know.
Compared to BJ Clinton, as a law-abiding owner of firearms, I at least, don't feel like a criminal for owning an AR-15 or a handgun with a hi-capacity (?) magazine. I have yet to see a group of strange church members trapped in their home and burned alive, for either owning guns which might be FA or for Child Abuse or having some type of drug lab... Ah, to take credit for the dot com economy... how cool would that be? Until it melted down. Vince Foster, I feel your pain I do not recollect I never had...
Compared to his father, I have yet to see how any man administering the Executive Office has control of the American economy, other than "confidence" in ourselves. But GHB DID learn about supermarket scanners "Gee Whiz Golly that's Keen, eh Babs"?
Compared to Ron Reagan, well, what can I say about RR other than Alzheimers took another great mind/man, a man who stood up to the USSR and broke their financial back, also raising our deficit, but at what price the cost to tear down THAT wall?
Jimmy Carter?
puleeze
Ford?
puleeze again
RMN? At a "gut" level, nice guy who talks funny vs. (I gotta agree w/ Harry Truman here) a lying ..... and one who abandoned his staff... Certainly left the people wondering what their Chief Executive was up to shaking his finger at the cameras whilst scowling "I am not a crook"
LBJ? Welfare (Great Society), GCA 68, Gulf of Tonkin, Tet Offensive w/ related media discord... there might be a correlation here except for the one term thing (thank you again John Kerry) what w/ signing bills I personally think were ill-conceived or implemented and less than truthful act which escalated SEA. And yet, a big difference between the hunger for power that LBJ had and used once in office, vs following Dad's footsteps.
JFK? Who would ever really know? 1000 days in office, chasing skirts, pain meds, little brother as AG... you decide.
Ike? I don't think GWB plays as much golf, but other than a Cold War hanging over our heads and fencing with the Soviets, everyone seemed to love this "General hero" with the exception of Harry T again.
Harry? Day and Night with the similarity of being thrust into something no man could ever really be ready for.
FDR? One was "Machiavellian" the other can't pronounce it, let alone act it.
Skipping a few here...
Woodrow was an intellectual... need I say more?
Theo? I sometimes wonder what Teddy would do if he were in office in 2001 and figure we'd be kicking someone's butt soundly somewhere. Trust busting of Enron... heads would roll, I'm sure.
Abe? Gee, he wasn't real popular at the time was he?
I could go on, but it's a shallow bit of knowledge I have concerning the previous POTUS' when trying to list them as good or bad.
Each had their flaws. Some more than others. Each are fascinating to study. GWB no less than the others, maybe moreso. (like driving by an auto accident and trying not to look)
Yet somehow, we muddled through their administrations with most of our wit, drive and freedoms intact... mostly.
Now Congress... that's another story.
Compared to BJ Clinton, as a law-abiding owner of firearms, I at least, don't feel like a criminal for owning an AR-15 or a handgun with a hi-capacity (?) magazine. I have yet to see a group of strange church members trapped in their home and burned alive, for either owning guns which might be FA or for Child Abuse or having some type of drug lab... Ah, to take credit for the dot com economy... how cool would that be? Until it melted down. Vince Foster, I feel your pain I do not recollect I never had...
Compared to his father, I have yet to see how any man administering the Executive Office has control of the American economy, other than "confidence" in ourselves. But GHB DID learn about supermarket scanners "Gee Whiz Golly that's Keen, eh Babs"?
Compared to Ron Reagan, well, what can I say about RR other than Alzheimers took another great mind/man, a man who stood up to the USSR and broke their financial back, also raising our deficit, but at what price the cost to tear down THAT wall?
Jimmy Carter?
puleeze
Ford?
puleeze again
RMN? At a "gut" level, nice guy who talks funny vs. (I gotta agree w/ Harry Truman here) a lying ..... and one who abandoned his staff... Certainly left the people wondering what their Chief Executive was up to shaking his finger at the cameras whilst scowling "I am not a crook"
LBJ? Welfare (Great Society), GCA 68, Gulf of Tonkin, Tet Offensive w/ related media discord... there might be a correlation here except for the one term thing (thank you again John Kerry) what w/ signing bills I personally think were ill-conceived or implemented and less than truthful act which escalated SEA. And yet, a big difference between the hunger for power that LBJ had and used once in office, vs following Dad's footsteps.
JFK? Who would ever really know? 1000 days in office, chasing skirts, pain meds, little brother as AG... you decide.
Ike? I don't think GWB plays as much golf, but other than a Cold War hanging over our heads and fencing with the Soviets, everyone seemed to love this "General hero" with the exception of Harry T again.
Harry? Day and Night with the similarity of being thrust into something no man could ever really be ready for.
FDR? One was "Machiavellian" the other can't pronounce it, let alone act it.
Skipping a few here...
Woodrow was an intellectual... need I say more?
Theo? I sometimes wonder what Teddy would do if he were in office in 2001 and figure we'd be kicking someone's butt soundly somewhere. Trust busting of Enron... heads would roll, I'm sure.
Abe? Gee, he wasn't real popular at the time was he?
I could go on, but it's a shallow bit of knowledge I have concerning the previous POTUS' when trying to list them as good or bad.
Each had their flaws. Some more than others. Each are fascinating to study. GWB no less than the others, maybe moreso. (like driving by an auto accident and trying not to look)
Yet somehow, we muddled through their administrations with most of our wit, drive and freedoms intact... mostly.
Now Congress... that's another story.
Nah, I didn't look up data, I just remember vividly the stagnation of our economy on "W"onderboy's watch. Sorry I picked a sensitive date.The Federal Reserve Board was beginning to take on the appearence of FEMA
Seriously, never has so much FED tweaking been necessary and for so long. This econ was on life support for most of the first term. ..and now watch what happens to the system when these folks who got into to houses or refys for "no down" go mammary glands up as rates rise to traditional levels! Yeah, that Silicon Valley feeding frenzy was a real tragedy for many. Free markets occassionally do that! It had little or nothing to do with Clinton or "W"
Do you really want to bring up the state of affairs existing in a Country previously controlled by a ruthless dictator?????
Thanks to "Boner Boy" Iraq is now the terrorist capital of the World...and if there is a civil war, well...all I can say is, "somebody's going to hell!"
You saved the best for last! Now I can live with that!
Rimrock
Yeah, I've got a picture of "His Decisiveness" in that classroom with the other children looking rather "dazed and confused" Everything's there but the cry for help! MOMMY!
Like a bad penny, watch that story get legs again soon. There's a big difference from a source going south due to intimadation and "it never happened".
We all are learning about those strong Republican Congress' their the ones in part responsible for the current mess and running for their politicals lives!
Rimrock
Rich Lucibella
Staff
Hey, here's a novel idea for certain posters on both sides.
How about we debate with facts and sources rather than sound-byte and threadbare generalizations. That would truly be refreshing. That would be Signal. The rest is Noise.
Rich
How about we debate with facts and sources rather than sound-byte and threadbare generalizations. That would truly be refreshing. That would be Signal. The rest is Noise.
Rich
we won't know if free markets do that, market in US was (and is) anything but free. Federal Reserve played it's role in precipitating the swing by lessening the value of hard earned cash, thus what could've been a reasonable fluctuation was pushed to disasterous extreme. Anyway, this topic is painful for many, Californians (myself including) in particular.
As for free markets... If ever curious, you can find their strong advocates among Noble prize winners in economics - so I won't even go into theories, it's been done over and over again by folks who are much more qualified than I am (Hayek/Myrdal, look them up). Instead, I'd bring up a simple observation: historically, attempts by government to control economics resulted in economical stagnation, the stronger control the sooner the stagnation - no exceptions. We have enough examples of countries that tried exactly that and collapsed under their own weight even in the last century - despite certain things going their way, like availability of almost slave labor, considerable populace, and even political edge. Each time it would happen due to the same problem: misallocated resources.
In the context of US - restricting foreign workforce and outsourcing, fixing currencies, taxing and subsidizing - all those methods may help in a short term, at the expense of huge strategical penalty later on. It's like borrowing under huge interest rate and knowing that the tab goes to your children... Yet it seems like a feasible option to many, those who take their lifestyle (secured by grandparents, in reality) for granted.
And on the contrary, economical liberty and moving towards free markets always - and I mean always, no exceptions yet again - resulted in prosperity. Problem is, prosperity takes longer to achieve and to notice. I know many dislike Reagan; yet I also believe that his economical program, which basically boiled down to removing control and lessening the role of government, was single most beneficial strategical move this country have seen in many decades.
There is no denial that in the scheme of global market, US is on very dangerous grounds these days. Yet the worst possible route this country may take is to pretend that nothing is happening and artificially protect it's populace by building a big virtual wall around itself through taxation, circumscriptive laws, and government-sponsored programs. That's one good way to eventually lose it's role as a world leading power.
Oh, almost forgot this one. You seem to miss the point: In all these years of trial, he wasn't found guilty by a very biased tribunal. Instead, he chose to defend himself and made a mockery of the trial and plaintiffs witnesses. By the way, why do you think Clinton and company ignored it when Milosevich summoned them to the stand?
So, again, why is he a ruthless dictator? Because Clinton said so? This is a very serious issue: yet again US intervenes in affairs where it has no business, except in this case it also chose to attack a friendly country. What amazes me to no extent is how mildly US people look at this misdeed. I'm serious, please recoupe the reasons for M's label as a ruthless dictator. Once you do, it just may turn out that there was no substance besides someone's will to present things this way. And then, the whole deed just may turn into a trivial yet expensive political murder with lots of casualties, with all of us being guilty - for citizens are always responsible for actions of elected government.
You may wonder why I called this tribunal biased. Common, they can't even make a good story about his demise. Latest I heard, he was taking pills that his appointed prison doctor didn't prescribe and that he got no one knows where. One of the most high-ranked prisoners in the world. Under strict and constant supervision. Was taking pills of unknown source and origin. Yeah, right.