Powdercoating update.... now cheaper!!

Beagle33,

My first interest in coating the base actually is not about velocity, but about maintaining symmetry of muzzle blast deflection of it at bullet exit. It's the same reason a uniform crown matters. It takes only a small asymmetry in the gas jet playing off the bullet base at exit to introduce an off-bore-axis drift that stays with the bullet all the way to the target. That opens groups up. Harry Pope said over a century ago, "the base steers the bullet", and that's what the uncoated bases first brought to mind.

You are obviously correct the bullet fit has to be good, but even a gas checked bullet that doesn't fit the bore well does not shoot well, either, IME, so I don't think it's about making up lost diameter. I think it's more about refining the seal. So, can a layer a thousandth of pliable material help make a better seal at the inside corners of the lands? I can't see why it would not. It's sort of like having a conformal O-ring. Will it have the mechanical strength of a real gas check? No. Obviously not. But I expect one reason liquid Alox works even when the lube grooves are not filled, is that it does help create an edge seal as it is dragged off the sides of the bullet as it enters the throat. I have no proof of that, though, so you've made me think up a couple of test experiments.

Accuracy testing is straight forward. Bullet base condition might take some forensic effort. I think the coating should come off recovered bullets sitting in methylene chloride for a time, making it possible to examine the lead underneath to see how well it has been protected. I've taken molded epoxy packaging off transistors and integrated circuits that way before. For velocity, I've got a 6.5 mm mold for my '96 Swede that I have yet to break in, so that might be a good test bed. The bore is very smooth.


Rottweiler,

It's counter-intuitive, but, ironically, the low melting point actually helps prevent heat from penetrating the coating too far. This is due to enthalpy of fusion. Polymers, like water ice, require that extra heat to break up the solid structure and render it liquid. So, even though heat starts to penetrate the surface, it can't raise the temperature above the melting point until after it has also put that extra heat in. Since how fast heat is driven into something depends on the temperature difference between where the heat is coming from and where it is going to, that melting point limit on temperature also limits how fast the heat can move from the surface of the melting thing down into it until enough heat to cause surface melting has been delivered by the heat source. This is what Stubbicatt is referring to.

Chrome-moly barrel steel has on the order of 20 times higher thermal effusivity than typical polyester, and has been shown by the military to be penetrated only a couple thousandths of an inch by the leading edge of the thermal transient during the time high heat and pressure are still in a barrel. That's why you get the differential surface expansion that causes the alligator cracking of a throat as it ages. So, figure you might get a twentieth of that, or a ten thousandth of an inch penetration of your powder coat layer before the bullet clears the muzzle. When you then take into account enthalpy of fusion, another factor or 30 or so is likely involved, so you might get three millionths of an inch of melting at the surface. Probably shallower than the surface texture is deep.
 
UncleNick....

I see that you want a good seal at the inside corners of the lands.... so, the bullets shown above would work for your suggested tests, or these as well?... since the powder wraps around the base but not all the way to the center, which is the area I was saying is not important. :)

accurate45003_zps53f648bb.jpg


I had thought you might be with the "coat the entire base" crowd, but I think see your point. For any improvement in sealing along the sides, it would just need to come completely around and onto the flat part, even a few thousandths would make sure nothing 'whistled past' until after complete exit, and then the blast would expand uniformly in all directions.

Is that what you were saying? Because coating the center of the base would have no effect on the radial dispersion once the edges of the base clear the crown, that I could see.
 
Last edited:
That pretty much covers the in-bore concerns. The muzzle exit concerns might get more complex, but I am really up against the limit of what I know so far about the process and materials, so it's hard to speculate further without wandering off the beam. I'd like to examine some recovered bullet bases to check for peeling edges or other issues that might arise from muzzle blast. I'd also like to look at large groups for precision comparisons with bare copies of the same bullets fired from a gun that can shoot them without appreciable leading. I have a .44 Mag barrel for my TC Encore that is smooth enough to make a good test bed for that at .44 Special pressures. I'll see if I can get time to do that.
 
Good luck with it. It'll be interesting to read the results.
For these, as long as I'm within minute-of-turtle, I'm grinning. :)


Those rascals are taking me over!:mad:
 
TiteGroup on the shelf today. I picked up two pounds of it. I've never load that stuff though. They also got Bullseye. Loads of Bullseye and Power Pistol. I don't even know what it's good for, but for some reason I want to buy some of it! 'Mebbe on the next trip to town. I don't think anybody local knows how to load em either. That row hasn't been touched since Thursday (5 days now).
I gotta go get out my reloading manual and check it. I load so few powders that I don't have to refer to that thing often. ;)
 
Last edited:
They also got Bullseye. Loads of Bullseye

I'm tellin ya, pick up some of that BE while ya can. One jug of it will load around 1K rounds of a wide variety of target type loads. While it might not be the cleanest burning stuff out there, they don't call it by that name for nothin...

I'm using it in 38Spl, some 357's and mostly in my 45 ACP. It is the thing for those cast target loads for sure. Even if you like something else a LOT better, two pounds of BE will carry you through a LOT of shooting while your looking for those "something better" powders.
 
Jumped onthe cart

Now, take it easy on me, I know I dissed on the "painted boolit" concept, BUT I just tried it.

IMG_2056.JPG


These are 9mm, both 124 grainers.

IMG_2059.JPG


Used the white airsoft, I had some on hand.

IMG_2061.JPG


Pretty good coverage, shook the in a ziplock container. (note, don't tip it upside down to see if there's enough paint powder!!:mad:.

IMG_2063.JPG


I'm real happy. You can see a few spots not covered, but most of the driving bands are covered.

I did some 45's last night. Only had a few not lubed to try to coat. I tried the tumbler impact coating method, I had a clean extra bowl and some #2 steel shot. Incredible racket, didn't cover well at all. Immediately switched to the airsoft. Those came out well, so I fired up the pot today to make some 9mm.

These will be an additional test, that's nearly pure lead, BHN about 7-8. IF the powder coat really can eliminate leading, this should be a good test.

The RN cast @ .360, but sized easily to .356. Didn't mic the TC boolits,, but they sized to .356 as well.

Now to load some tomorrow, maybe shoot as well.

Thanks to Beagle for bringing the new tumble method to our attention. I wasn't about to get a spray outfit, nowhere to use it anyway.
 
Nice lookin' boolits, Snuffy!


Stubbicatt
I bake mine at 400° for 20 minutes. That is for HF red. There is a lot of variation on bake times. The powders also vary, but it will tell you on the powder directions how long to bake and what temp. Most are 400, but times vary wildly. Some folks swear by 10 minutes only, some bake 20 minutes after the powder glosses over (I think that's what the HF powder actually says to do), and some guys will bake for a whole hour and water drop, but I have found that 20 mins, start to finish, in a preheated 400° toaster (using my PID, so I know it is exact), is perfect.
I don't have an oven thermometer, but I figure a $2 one from WallWorld would do the same. :)

And I do not warm my bullets before tumble (or spray), and I also do not wash them in anything like brake cleaner or acetone.
 
Last edited:
I baked @ 400 degrees for 30 minutes, took out of the oven , let air cool. I used my cooking oven which is natural gas, no, I'm not worried about lead since the boolits are encapsulated. I also used parchment paper, didn't want to make another stop to buy the non-stick alum. foil. None of them stuck to the paper!

Now to get some loaded. I plan on loading some of the 45's I coated on the first run, they're a MP 200 HP. I'll run them into my bullet expansion test media to capture AND test if the coating allows expansion. Should see how the rifling reacts as well.
 
Last edited:
they're a MP 200 HP. I'll run them into my bullet expansion test media to capture ND test if the coating allows expansion. Should see how the rifling reacts as well.

Would you post up some pictures of your results please....

I keep askin and askin, but all I ever see are the ones sittin on a table all pretty and in straight rows....:rolleyes:

I'm looking at using some on some from that same mold as well as a few other MP's I have now. Are the HP's from the real soft alloy listed above?
 
they're a MP 200 HP. I'll run them into my bullet expansion test media to capture ND test if the coating allows expansion. Should see how the rifling reacts as well.

Would you post up some pictures of your results please....

I keep askin and askin, (not mentioning any names here) but all I ever see are the ones sittin on a table all pretty and in straight rows....:rolleyes: Ya gotta figure at some point they have to get shot.....right;)

I'm looking at coating up some from that same mold, as well as a few other MP's I have now. Are the HP's from the real soft alloy listed above?
 
I keep askin and askin, (not mentioning any names here) but all I ever see are the ones sittin on a table all pretty and in straight rows.... Ya gotta figure at some point they have to get shot.....right

They ain't fer shootin'! They's fer lookin' at! You gotta build you some nice little glass-doored and felt-lined cases to keep the dust off of 'em and maybe some indirect lighting for the case backlights. :D:p
 
Can you size them before doing this method of powder coating and do you need to resize them after?
I have been using a lee sizer as of late.
 
You can do both, either, or neither. It just depends on how big your bullets drop, how thick you lay the PC on, and how consistent you want your bullets.

If your bullets drop round, and will be proper diameter with a coating of PC, then there's really no reason to size them at all.

But, if they drop out-of-round, ridiculously oversized, or will be too oversized after coating, then pre, post, or pre and post sizing may be needed.
 
Would you post up some pictures of your results please....

I keep askin and askin, but all I ever see are the ones sittin on a table all pretty and in straight rows....

I'm looking at using some on some from that same mold as well as a few other MP's I have now. Are the HP's from the real soft alloy listed above?

C'mon Mike, ya know I love to post pics and write up range trips! Cointenley I'll take pics.

Got some 9's and some 45's loaded today. Might have had time to go shoot some, but the neighbor was tapping on my door this morning needing a ride to town to get some roofing tin. Leaky roof ya know! The Miha RNFPHP are all penta points. We'll see if the piant will prevent the HP from opening.

Yes, they're the very soft lead alloy, the same as the above 9's. They've expanded violently in the past.

Makarovfan, I sized these post coating, I see no reason to size before coating. The HF powder coating is very slippery, and the soft lead sized easily. I also coated some 230 TCTL lee that were cast from my range lead. It's around 12-14 BHN, it too sized easily, BUT those lee TL boolits have very narrow driving bands, so they size easily.
 
now I have something else to try out when there is a rainy afternoon.

For me, that is really one of the benefits of this new BB tumble technique!
I don't have a garage and so spraying doesn't work when it's rainy outside.
This lets me coat anytime. :)
 
C'mon Mike, ya know I love to post pics and write up range trips! Cointenley I'll take pics.

Yep I was figuring you would, I sorta posted that for the benefit of some of the newer folks who have started to roll in. :D

Got some 9's and some 45's loaded today. Might have had time to go shoot some, but the neighbor was tapping on my door this morning needing a ride to town to get some roofing tin. Leaky roof ya know! The Miha RNFPHP are all penta points. We'll see if the piant will prevent the HP from opening.

Yes, they're the very soft lead alloy, the same as the above 9's. They've expanded violently in the past.

I haven't done the Penta pins in my 200gr's yet. I figured that since the round ones did so well, I would just leave well enough alone. I might have to pour up a batch to try out with my softer alloy. I bet they would be pretty cool looking no matter what.

I doubt that paint in the cavity is going to be much of an issue. I shoot most all of mine through the lid on 5'ish gallon buckets, and just about every one of them has some of the smeared plastic left on the frontal area, but they all expand VERY well.

Here is a pic of some from another MP mold, if you look around the edges of the one on the right, you can still see some of the blue plastic embedded in the alloy,
attachment.php


That is the same alloy I use for the 200gr for my ACP. They will open up about the size of the one on the right, which is about all the way to the base. I worked another alloy that is just a wee bit more tolerant of pressure and impact velocity, that I use in my 1100 - 1300fps loads. It will do about the exact same thing from my 41, 44, and 45 Colt using the Ruger only loads. But with the first one I really don't need anything more that it in the Colt.

I sent some to Beagle there to try out on his little turtle issue. I am starting to think he might be scared he is going to like it too much to try it out. I promise those turtles ain't gonna like it one bit.....:eek:
 
I'm gonna try to get out there and cast some of these this weekend with the deep pin. These babies are hollow all the way to the bottom lube groove. Then I'm gonna put a PB check on em so I don't blow the base out. :D
Picture026_zps2818b49b.jpg
 
Back
Top