Powdercoating update.... now cheaper!!

[Beagle333]

You know.... packing peanuts really are the most "static-ey" things I can think of! It might work!

One fellow did say he used white, since he didn't have black, and it did work okay for him, and he also said yellow did not work. But that was one man's testing. I'd try the white first and see. It won't take many to know.

 

[A pause for the COZ]

I think I found my new way to coat!!!
The white BB's seem to work fine. The more I did the better I got at figuring out the right amount of bullets/BB's and powder.

They are in fact not as Purdy as the gun sprayed ones. But who cares?
This gets a bunch coated fast with no mess.
I may still use my sprayer for my 223 suff. maybe.....

Thanks for sharing this.

 

[Beagle333]

I was using the 8 oz CoolWhip container, but I was worried about the lid coming lose during shaking. And I found these at Publix for $1.52 each. They are made to store CDs and I guess since CDs are outdated, they are cheap! Anyway, it looked like something great for tumbling. The whole thing is made of #5 plastic and it has the same snap closure on the back too, so the top comes off for easy bullet picking. I figure it'll hold about 2-300 at a time. It looked great for mold/die storage too, so I bought 6 of em.

And after studying my first ones, I'm thinking the powder should be used as lightly as you can get by with, then add more if needed while shaking. The bullets shouldn't look like they got it clumped on there. It's easy to add more powder, as you can throw them back in there and shake again if you don't like it. (unlike spraying). It's tougher to add enough bullets to get it back down to the right mix if you got too much powder in the bowl.
But I definitely am thinking this is where powder coating is heading.

 

[stubbicatt]

Do you fellas have to lube your coated bullets before forcing them thru the Lee Die?

Is this method better than the old lubrisizer and alox in the grease groove method?

 

[oldpapps]

stubbicatt,

Two questions.

First. Some will give a little spritz with one of those spray lubes. I don't (so far). I have found that one of my molds drops bullets with my sleceted alloy a lot larger that I want to end up with and I run those bullets in my old Lyman 450 luber-sizer. (I cleaned out and washed all of the lube out.) After sizing, I 'Powder Coat' and don't size after. I have a new mold coming and it may require a change in my sequence.

Second. As I see it there is need and room for both ways. I'm too old/lazy to cast all of the lead pistol bullets I use and will continue buying them from Missouri Bullet. However, normally lubed bullets run out of speed quickly. 'Powder Coated' cast bullets push this speed limit far faster than I shoot my jacketed bullets in comparable chamberings. Maybe I should elaborate a little. I load up a cast and lubed bullet for a rifle. With my limited expertise, I will start leading at 1200 FPS and get much worse the faster I push the bullet. I'm exceeding the speed I can get quickly. But with a 'Powder Coated' bullet, I know of (and trust in the claims) velocities in excess of 3200 FPS with no leading or other degradation.

Do I need to 'Powder Coat' my 200 grain SWC 45s? No, not unless I want to add a little color to them. Will I coat my 300 BlackOuts, yep.

Hope this helped.

Enjoy,

OSOK

 

[nemesiss45]

I picked up some HF powder coat on monday along with some needle nose pliers which I sharpened and bent like beagle... in fact, they are the exact same pliers, I believe. then this morning I got lucky and found a huge convection toaster oven at the thrift shop for $15.

I had a few types of airsoft BBs laying around, so I tried them all out, blue, white, and yellow. After coating a few bullets, I could see the yellow was the only BB picking up an even coating of paint, so I dumped the mix an used straight yellow.

I have coated 3 sets of bullets so far, but I am having issues getting an even coat. in the following images, you will see on the left some .30 cals on their second coat. the coverage is fairly good, bu you can still see silver and it has an orange peel texture. in the middle are some 1st coat .30 cals, you can clearly see the blotchy coverage. On the right are some .45s on their second coat, with the same issues.

when you guys are shaking the container, how hard and what direction are you shaking it? are you swirling, shaking side to side, of up and down? I was doing a combination but I think I might be doing something that is working against me. I also wonder if I have too many bullets and they are scraping eachother clean.

opinions welcome. I am pleased with the process so far, but I'd like to get my bullets looking like those first ones beagle posted.

oh, also as a side note, beagle, I use those same ice cream containers to hold my cast bullets. I love them, and the ice cream is good too.

 

[A pause for the COZ]

I have not had any issues running mine through ether LEE sizers or my Star with the lube shut off.
The only concern you would have is leading and well you wont get that with the coated bullets.

As for Alox in my opinion any thing is better than Alox. But thats just my opinion some guys really like it. I am not one of them. I will do it if I have too but only if I have too.


I tried a basket for some of my 223 bullets. Just to see if I could forgo the sprayer. Seems to work fine. Not as purdy but should be serviceable.
Worth more investigation any way.

 

[Beagle333]

when you guys are shaking the container, how hard and what direction are you shaking it? are you swirling, shaking side to side, of up and down? I was doing a combination but I think I might be doing something that is working against me. I also wonder if I have too many bullets and they are scraping each other clean.

I can't tell from the pic too well, but it doesn't look like they are scraping each other clean as much as the powder is caked on and not smooth. Maybe try with less powder and bullets, even if you have to shake 2 or 3 bowls to get a pan full for baking? You can always add more powder if you aren't getting a full coverage. It just doesn't look like it is sticking evenly. Or maybe you aren't generating enough static? I don't know, since I bought the black BBs the first time out and it worked for me.

I'm shaking them in all directions, side to side, over my head, rather vigorously...... not really like I was trying to free up the rattle ball in a new can of spray paint, but a good medium shaking like you would give that can of spray paint as you shake between sprays. (if that makes sense)
Shake that stuff! lol

 

[stubbicatt]

OSOK said:

I load up a cast and lubed bullet for a rifle. With my limited expertise, I will start leading at 1200 FPS and get much worse the faster I push the bullet. I'm exceeding the speed I can get quickly. But with a 'Powder Coated' bullet, I know of (and trust in the claims) velocities in excess of 3200 FPS with no leading or other degradation.

You know, this is encouraging. As if one were able to load rifle bullets of a medium alloy, which would mushroom as opposed to fragment (as I have experienced with linotype), and powder coat them, one could have a short to intermediate range game bullet with great practical effect.

 

[nemesiss45]

Thanks beagle, ill try just a few bullets and see how it goes. And maybe ill try picking up some black bbs to try.

I think the coating I have will do the job, I sized the .45s and the driving band was smooth and fully coated. I am anxious to see how the shoot.

 

[Beagle333]

You know, this is encouraging. As if one were able to load rifle bullets of a medium alloy, which would mushroom as opposed to fragment (as I have experienced with linotype), and powder coat them, one could have a short to intermediate range game bullet with great practical effect.

Very true. I'm mostly using it for pistols, and while I do coat 30-30 and 45-70, it doesn't fall in the class you are speaking of. But there are several guys doing a lot of experimentation of .223, .308 and .300 blackout, to see if what you say is a good idea. It would be nice to shoot softer stuff at high velocities and get a beautiful 'shroom from my .270

 

[FrankenMauser]

You know, this is encouraging. As if one were able to load rifle bullets of a medium alloy, which would mushroom as opposed to fragment (as I have experienced with linotype), and powder coat them, one could have a short to intermediate range game bullet with great practical effect.

Last week, I made my first trip to a range I bought a membership for. Being a Sunday, with terrible wind and no one else around, I proceeded to "mine" one of the 100 yard berms when I was done shooting. (Just picking up what was on the surface.)

Much to my surprise, about 5 pounds of the 21-22 lbs of scrap I picked up were .30 caliber cast rifle bullets, nicely mushroomed.
When I got home, I inspected a handful of them. They appear to have been a 175-180 gr silhouette bullet (possibly a hollow point), using what appears to be black moly lube. Some quick testing (alloy on alloy - nothing properly scientific) put them just on the soft side of wheel weight alloy. I don't know what velocity they were fired at, but they were mushroomed very nicely and for at least 40% of their length.

I don't normally consider dirt to be a good medium for judging expansion, but everything I was picking up, other than FMJs, was expanded as if it had been fired into gelatin - with the occasional rock strike.

 

[Beagle333]

Today I found a small sample of some forgotten tumble lube bullets that someone had given me. I think they got tumbled twice, because there were waaaay too thick with lube...

But I gave em a quick swirl in some gas to remove the Alox, then a quick swirl in some thinner to remove the gas, and they shined right up......

then tossed em in the Airsoft BB bowl for a quick tumble. I baked them up real nice and red and now they are ready for heavy loading for some high speed water jug detonating.

Not nearly as slick as spraying, but it was fast (especially for this few bullets)and they'll shoot just fine.


And I did go to my LGS today, just to look around, and the ol' guy thumbed toward the back and said "You might wanna check the back, we got some powder in." and I walked back there and was shocked outta my shoes. It was like the old days! (Well, except the prices) But they had all Alliant in stock again! From Unique all the way down to Bullseye. It was so beautiful!
I only took 4 lbs of Unique (which is about how much of that I'll shoot in a year) and walked to the front grinning like I'd won the lottery! I didn't even bother with any of the Bullseye, the Dots or any of the numbered powders. I'll check back for them and maybe any leftover Unique later.

 

[Mike / Tx]

Should have gotten at least one of those jugs of BE, heck thats around 1800 rounds of those WC's....oh sorry "Turtle Busters".

 

[Beagle333]

I still got H110, W296, Trail Boss, PB, American Select, RedDot, 800X, and if it comes down to it...... about a dozen pounds of store-bought black.

But I was seriously rationing my last half pound of Unique.... so I feel much better now.


The TB's are at the ready.

All dressed up for action.

The enemy.

 

[Unclenick]

One thing that has surprised me reading about the various coating process adaptations is that most everyone seems to coat the nose, but not worry about the base. My instinct would be to go the other way around. That's based on past experience with poly-wads behind conventional cast bullets successfully preventing leading even at jacketed bullet velocities. It's also based on the greater importance of base uniformity than nose uniformity to accuracy.

I'll just have to try some myself. Got the powder just recently, but need to get to the experimental phase.

 

[oldpapps]

Unclenick,

I'm with you on not wanting to coat the nose but the butt.
Alas, I'm using the 'shake-and-bake' system and get full coverage.
I am thinking hard on getting one of those aftermarket 'hollow-pointer' drill thingies. Just thinking on a keyboard but....

Enjoy,

OSOK

 

[Beagle333]

While this Airsoft BB tumbling method coats the whole thing, coating the nose is not necessary, except in a bore-riding nose, and then only up to the ogive. All that need be coated are what rides the barrel. The nose gets coated using the spray method just because it's easier to stand the bullet on the base than the nose, and it looks good loaded.
If you want to see a coated base - but not the nose, you might like the spray method better where the guys put hollow points on nails to coat them. Then it's only the sides and base that get coated fully. But the base does not need coated. In my/our testing, this will not perform as a gas check, it's only 1/1000 of an inch of slippery polyester that is there for friction reduction. If your alloy and your "fit" do not completely stopper that barrel when you light a fire under it, even a completely coated bullet is going to lead unless there is a gas check there (which might include a poly-wad... I've never used those) to stop that hot gas from cutting the base.

But, for looks..... some of the guys who like to see a coated base on some that were sprayed, will tap the base of the finished coated/baked bullet on a rag dampened with acetone or thinner and then tap it on a piece of paper with some powder sprinkled on it and bake the bullets again. That will give you a coat to look at, but it will not let you push it faster than without that coloring on the bottom. I have personally not seen one sentence supporting that, in the hundreds of pages I have read on the forum during development.

But I am always willing to learn new things and would love to see somebody willing to purposefully lead up a barrel, coat some bullets both fully and bare-based and push them to failure on some unbiased side-by-side tests.

 

[Rottweiler]

I'm with Beagle on this. Coating the base seems to be a waste of time and materials to me. My reasoning...The temperature of burning powder is much higher than the melting point of the powder coat. Once it's liquid, it isn't going to do much protecting of anything and by the time it's solid again it will be out of the barrel and well on it's way toward (if not through) the target. How much protection does it need there?

 

[stubbicatt]

Rottweiler, I am new to this powder coating fad, and intend to become a faddist soon

There are two factors concerning melting. One, as you point out is temperature. The other, dwell time. Sure the powder gases become quite hot, but the short time they act on the coating may not be enough to melt/strip the coating from the base of the bullet. The best way to find out, I suppose, is to mine one of the slugs from an appropriate medium and inspect...