Pentagon: Saddam Hussein's Iraq had no links to Al Qaeda

Nobody defended Saddam here. He was a murdering scumbag who got what he deserved. There's no arguement with that.

But.....why target him as a tin-pot terrorist sponsor above all the others?

Iran is still out there. They're sponsoring a lot more anti-American terrorism than Iraq and always have been. Even when Ronnie and Ollie were selling them arms. Gadaffi seems to have gotten away with it, he's a good boy now and all that crap.

Just seems odd.
 
Let em' be Mountaincmbr, they are representing the left right now, butt jokes and all. Facts and information are a nuesence. They have magic underwear and whistles to discuss.
 
Saddam provided rewards to families of Palistinean suicide bombers who killed many including US Citizens. Saddam offered a reward for terrists in the Phillipines if they killed US Citizens. An Abu Sayef bomb killed three US soldiers. The Iraqi ambassador to the Phillipines was expelled after intelligence intercepted a cell phone call from the terrorists to the ambassador making arrangements to collect the reward. Malaysian intelligence has a high ranking Iraqi government official meeting the 9-11 hijackers at the airport in Maylasia in what is now thought to be a coordination meeting.
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All of which (except for the last) has nothing to do with a link between Iraq and Al Qaeda. And the last one is so dubious even the Bush administration isn't willing to cite it.
 
Facts and information are a nuesence
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Which facts are these? No WMD's? No Al-Qaeda? Iran on the up? America pissing it's blood and money into the desert? America mired in Iraq for years to come for no good end? America's reputation around the world down the toilet?

Afghanistan done half arsed. Bumper opium crops for the last few years. Think of that one when the heroin addicts are breaking into your home or mugging you to steal money to send onto your Afghan allies who are dumping their crap into American cities.

Well done.
 
The word parsing game played in the headline was inserting 'operational' as the qualifier. This insertion, and the omission of the title of the report, "Saddam and Terrorism: Emerging Insights from Captured Iraqi Documents" only referring to it as 'the report' are the spin. It's an attempt to 're-write' the report before it is digested by the public.

It was never claimed that Iraq had 'operational' links to AlQ. It also wasn't asserted that Iraq, or Iraqi terrorists were involved in 9/11. It was asserted that Iraq had links to AlQ and that Iraq was sponsoring international terrorism, both of which the report does confirm.

• In the same year, Saddam ordered his intelligence service to "form a group to start hunting Americans present on Arab soil; especially Somalia." At the time, Al Qaeda was working with warlords against American forces there.

• The Iraqi Intelligence Service in a 1993 memo to Saddam agreed on a plan to train commandos from Egyptian Islamic Jihad, the group that assassinated Anwar Sadat and was founded by Al Qaeda's second-in-command, Ayman al-Zawahiri.
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Zawahiri was infamous in the now decimated AlQ presence in Iraq.

The insertion of 'operational' is what made the headline true. Without that the report actually confirms Iraq was sponsoring international terrorism and Jihadists. The attacks this country faced prior to OIF were not perpetrated by elephants or tigers, they were performed by Islamic Jihadists. Stateless rouge militants, they had nationalities but the were not acting on behalf of their native nations.

And what the hay..I'll go ahead and address the 'thoughts' about State Sponsors of Terrorism. The facts are that there are currently 5 (not crap loads) State Sponsors of Terrorism. http://www.state.gov/s/ct/c14151.htm They are Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan, and Syria. Before Operation Iraqi Freedom there were 9, 7 official and 2 unofficial. The 2 official that are no longer on the list are Iraq, and Lybia. The 2 unofficial were the Taliban of Afghanistan but it wasn't considered the legitimate government of Afghanistan so the nation didn't get the label, and the IRA of Ireland also not recognized as legitimate Irish representatives.

Lybia, Iraq, the Taliban, and the IRA are results of the WOT.


Question:
-Was Iraq being a sponsor of terrorism given for our action or was it that Iraq had operational links to AlQ given?

-Was providing for Iraq being self governed and it's people enjoying freedom given as a mark for success at the OIF began?

-Were we told when OIF began that it would take longer to achieve such freedom then many estimated?

-Was it asserted that Iraq was involved in 9/11 when OIF started?

I mean by the PRESIDENT which is being alleged to have lied or changed the goal, etc.

LINKS PLEASE enough BS. How much do you guys KNOW and how much have you been SOLD.

And yes, we were WRONG about the WMDs. ALOT of people were. There is a difference between being wrong and lying. These folks were wrong too.

If we are going to veer off topic then let's get fact based. Let's grow into a serious tone if possible. Enough sophomoric rattle.
 
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Brux

I really can't be arsed looking up stuff when you're not going to listen anyway. I remember all this bullsh*t when it happened at the time. It sounded like a lie then and as it turned out it was a lie.

Here's one link for you. Just goes to show that not everything you read on the internet is true.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2741737.stm
 
It is a pain in the 'arse' to find info that doesn't exist.

Maybe this can help your memory:

"This campaign may take longer, and be more difficult than some predict, and helping Iraqis create a united, stable, and free country will require our sustained commitment."

"We have no ambitions in Iraq except to remove a threat and restore control of that country to it's own people."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DvIDuk1498
 
Yes Bruxley, you win. You're the best right wing internet lawyer there is.

Once again. Well done.

It is a pain in the 'arse' to find info that doesn't exist.
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Unless you can find some student's thesis to put in your "dodgy dossier" that will validate your cause for war.
 
We have no ambitions in Iraq except to remove a threat and restore control of that country to it's own people."
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That's a piss-poor reason for losing American lives and has absolutely nothing to do with why the American people were told we attacked Iraq. Anybody see the U.S. jumping on N. Korea? Nah, I didn't think so.
 
Here is the bottom line there is not now, nor was there ever a truly good reason to invade Iraq. If there were they would still be using it.

They chose to invade Iraq, they wanted to invade Iraq, they wanted to secure Israel and try to reshape the political lanscape of the Arab world.

They invade Iraq and their working on the rest.

Why all the hemming and hawing Brux, the trying to prove the phony talking points of the pro war side?

Why not just come out and say 'I'm a big fan and supporter of Israel, I think every penny we give them, we spend on their defense, every American soldier killed, crippled or wounded is well worth it.'

'Everything they and we are doing in the mideast is good no matter how many Arabs and Muslims have to die and no matter how much much it makes the rest of the world hate us'

No matter what we do there the results will be the same.

I know what the Zionists say and I know what bin Laden and Amadenajad say, guess what their all wrong and their all evil.

The sons of Isaac and the sons of Ishmael are going to fight each other till the end of time.

There is a cure for it its called Christianity, but neither side is receptive to it as both are deceived into believing they are right and on Gods side.

If we wanted to do good there we would have quit suppling Israel with money and weapons. Made them obey international law and then we might of had a chance to be honest peace brokers.

As it is here is what bin Laden thinks: "Western forces... support the Jewish and Zionist plans for expansion of what is called the Great Israel. Surely, their presence is not out of concern over their interests in the region....Their presence has no meaning save one, and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine...-May 1998 Interview with Osama bin Laden

The reason he thinks that is because its true.

We have no hope of now of ever brokering a peace in the mid east. Who knows perhaps it was never a thing possible for mortal men to do on their own anyway and the holy war is truly inevitable.

bin Laden thinks it is:...The enmity between us and the Jews goes far back in time and is deep rooted. There is no question that war between the two of us is inevitable. For this reason it is not in the interest of Western governments to expose...their people to all kinds of retaliation for almost nothing. It is hoped that people of those countries will initiate a positive move and force their governments not to act on behalf of other states and other sects...

I guess freewill is really not all its cracked up to be and no one has a choice whether to fight or make peace, Armageddon here we come.
 
Before you spout that right winger brain wash thing s'more remember, I only held this to the facts, not to rattle. It was those blinded by disdain that ate up the tripe and got into a feeding frenzy here.

Further, before you categorize conservatives as brainwashed you may want to consider we are currently NOT blindly accepting the GOP nominee, flatly rejected SCOTUS nominees, fought Bush's immigration plans persistently, etc. It's NOT a Bush wants it so it's all good mentality.

I merely pointed to the facts. Those that claim superior education, enlightenment, progressive though, etc. would be appreciative of such a tact I would think if those qualities were genuine.

You notice many of the initial partakers in the frenzy bailed when the facts came out about the report. Others engaged in discussions about magic underwear, whistles and butt jokes. At least some have the sense to simply be silent even if admitting a mistake is beyond their ability.

Does this kind of thing make you wonder what you actually KNOW about this subject vs. just think or feel about it, or do you just scoff at the facts and proceed status quo with the delirium, becoming irritated at the blow to your preconceptions? Even becoming angrier rather then introspective.

Who is really swallowing misinformation?
What is the truth and what is blindness of disdain?
Do you care to actually know or is thinking you know or feeling you know enough?

Here's the big question. What gets you more excited, America doing well or America making an error? Which gets you most motivated to post? And which type of post do you make most often. Do you check the accuracy of positive reports or negative reports as a rule?

Who's got your reigns?

KNOW, THINK, FEEL. They all have a place but have to be placed appropriately or manipulation gets an opportunity.
 
Nate, your disdain for Israel merits little reply. If you believe what your saying your also blinded by disdain. I won't go so far as anti-semitic as I don't want to believe your outlook is shaped by such a repugnant thing as that.

You think it's a Zionist thing, OK, we get it.

The Palestinian/Israeli thing is rooted in Abraham and his concubine's son was forgotten yadda yadda, but the Islamic root is all Mohammedan. People looking to find bigoted reasons to hate will always succeed. Once that gate gets passed through however, all things become distorted by the now disfigured eye. Every perception and therefore every conclusion.

Don't be surprised by the limited credence given to such conclusions.

And I agree, Christianity is the cure. But not this 'follow the text' religious thing reffered to as Christianity, rather a sincere, personal relationship to be 'Christian' meaning 'christlike'. A changed heart that endeavors to be Christlike. I surely fall short but the heart has been changed.

I've said may times that liberals and Christians share the same vision, a Utopian society. The problem is that liberals think peoples hearts are inherently good and that laws will stop the evildoers. Christians realize that peoples hearts are inherently bad and that until a heart is changed, no law against evil will ever change that. It takes a changed heart.

Now Nate, with that the veer can end.
 
We ARE fighting them there instead of here. A stated intention if I recall.
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"We have no ambitions in Iraq except to remove a threat and restore control of that country to it's own people."
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Bruxley, how do you reconcile the two statements above. Is the plan really to remove the threat and restore control of that country to it's own people by attracting every nut-job suicide bomber and jihadist to that country.

This is symptomatic of the way that the justification for the war has changed and danced as the British and American governments have been caught out on lie after lie.
 
I was in the middle east right after the 1st gulf war. I was in Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. You can not even imagine the hatred and jealousy of the Jews by the Arabs unless you listen to the hourly prayers on television (with english subtitles). Lots of "why has God favored them and when will God give us the spear to kill our brothers" stuff. The extremists want to kill the Saudi ruling class and us too. Some on the left seem to apoligize for the terrorists. I have resigned myself to the fact that I will never understand them, and will never be free of the risks of their beliefs.
 
Well Dresden, show me. Aperently you WANT to believe something. Go ahead.

That one speach dispelled the 'lie' of changing the goals.

You will forever change your arguement based of what you 'THINK'. What do you KNOW?

Show me the F A C T S.

Show me a war plan that DIDN'T have to adjust on day 1. The threat changed but the goal has not.

Interspect and get the guttoral inpulse in check.

Make perfection the standard then you better also make disapointment an expectation.......
 
I have resigned myself to the fact that I will never understand them, and will never be free of the risks of their beliefs.
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I'm afraid its more that just the belief of Islam, its the belief of Christianity and Judaism as well.

The unsolvable problem: this is what exists in the Middle East since Israel's rebirth. You may wonder what is meant by this statement. It is referring to the intense hatred of the Arabs toward the Jews. The Arabs claim the land that Israel now occupies is theirs. They believe that God promised it to them through Abraham. The Jews also claim this land. They believe that God promised them the land they now have, plus more, through Abraham. As long as the Jews control this land, there will be wars and unrest until one side is destroyed.

It all goes back to Sarah and Hagar and their sons Isaac and Ishmael both of whom were fathered by Abraham.

I have resigned myself to the fact that there is nothing we can do about it anyway, its all going to play out no matter what we do. Arguing about it or trying to solve it through diplomacy is not going to work.

You may say nate 'I don't believe in religious prophecy', thats ok Ahmadinejad, bin Laden and the Christian and Jewish Zionists do.
 
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