Paul losing congressional race

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Paul well knows to never shoot down, always shoot up. Peden needs a stage badly, Paul's agreeing to a debate would grant him one.

Just another in a long series of instances where Ron Paul says one thing and does another.

Paul says he supports the 2nd amendment, then joins with Ted Kennedy and Diane Finestein to vote AGAINST the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act,

Paul says he opposes pork barrell earmark spending, then submits SIXTY (60) PAGES of pork barrell earmark requests for his district,

Paul says he is all for the "people's right to hear all sides" when he is excluded from a Presidential debate. Now when it's to his advantage, he refuses to allow his opponent to participate in a debate.

I think it's likely that Paul's low standing in his Congressional District is because the voters there seeing his true colors for the first time. Paul proved once again that he is as bad as any of the other sleazy politicians in Washington.
 
Paul says he supports the 2nd amendment, then joins with Ted Kennedy and Diane Finestein to vote AGAINST the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act,

The right to sue over civil matters is protected by the Constitution.

There is already a mechanism in place for dealing with frivolous lawsuits.
 
The right to sue over civil matters is protected by the Constitution

Lawsuits seeking to regulate or severely impact Interstate Commerce are eligible for limitation under the Commerce Clause.

And Ron Paul's own stated reasons for opposing the PLCAA apparently had nothing to do with Constitution. He said it would somehow "...give ammunition to the antis..." and wind up being used "against" gun owners.

There is already a mechanism in place for dealing with frivolous lawsuits.

And it's entirely ineffective, as the lawsuits against S&W, Beretta, Bushmaster, Charter Arms, etc. over the past 15 years have shown.
 
Lawsuits seeking to regulate or severely impact Interstate Commerce are eligible for limitation under the Commerce Clause.

The instate commerce clause does not explicitly grant the federal government to take away someone's right to sue. The right to sue is, however, explicitly guaranteed in the BOR. The interstate commerce clause could be misconstrued to do almost anything.

Our method for dealing with frivolous lawsuits is ineffective because our Congress, which are the same people who are happy to take away your right to court access, will not get off their asses and impeach bad judges.
 
Apples and oranges.

Paul well knows to never shoot down, always shoot up. Peden needs a stage badly, Paul's agreeing to a debate would grant him one.

Otherwise, no debate, after all, Paul's outstanding voting record speaks much louder than any debate with congressional competition could ever do.

So then Fox made the right decision in not letting Paul debate. Fox well knows to never shoot down, always shoot up. Paul needed a stage badly, Fox agreeing to let Paul debate would grant him one.

Of course if we are to take your logic and apply it here, Paul shouldn't have gone to any debate because his outstanding voting record spoke much louder than any debate with any other presidential nominees ever would.


Of course the problem is Pat that Paul fought hard to be invited to every debate that was in. That tells me that he believed they were beneficial to him. His justification continually was not including him in a debate would be unfair.

So, given the fact that Paul has HIMSELF said its unfair not to let people who want to debate participate, and that there are new voters this time around who probably don't know his "stellar record" since they weren't in his district, is it not the ultimate hypocrisy for Paul to refuse to debate.

After all, since his record and positions are as brilliant as you say, wouldn't debating his opponent, who you allege to be utterly flawed, even highlight his brilliance more? What does he have to lose/
 
The instate commerce clause does not explicitly grant the federal government to take away someone's right to sue. The right to sue is, however, explicitly guaranteed in the BOR. The interstate commerce clause could be misconstrued to do almost anything.

Our method for dealing with frivolous lawsuits is ineffective because our Congress, which are the same people who are happy to take away your right to court access, will not get off their asses and impeach bad judges.

Lets stick with the topic guys.
 
So, given the fact that Paul has HIMSELF said its unfair not to let people who want to debate participate, and that there are new voters this time around who probably don't know his "stellar record" since they weren't in his district, is it not the ultimate hypocrisy for Paul to refuse to debate.
Again, Apples and Oranges.

Ron Paul isn't denying anyone entry into a debate. I fact, I don't even know if there's been a request for a debate by his unknown opponent. I'm taking your word for it. Perhaps that's unwise.

Nevertheless, if Paul wants to debate the guy, fine; but I'm not taking any negatives away from him not debating since I wouldn't do it either.

Everything to lose and nothing to gain. Peden is looking for a stage. Let him find one.
 
Ron Paul isn't denying anyone entry into a debate.

Sure he is. By refusing to debate his opponent in a 2 man race he's denying them a debate.

Paul's justification for being allow to debate with the other presidential candidates was the the people deserved to hear him. Is this something reserved only for presidential elections, or do the people in his district deserve to hear him and his opponent speak.
 
I dont have a problem with Ron Paul refusing to debate his opponent. Ron Paul has been in a whole bunch of Republican debates, and said the same thing every time. If there is anyone in his district that doesn't know his views, they must be living under a rock.
 
After reading about his opponent, I'm not impressed. I'm not sure we need another right wing authoritarian in power. I don't think he would be an improvement.
 
coolhandluke said:
And Ron Paul's own stated reasons for opposing the PLCAA apparently had nothing to do with Constitution. He said it would somehow "...give ammunition to the antis..." and wind up being used "against" gun owners.

You bring up that one vote over and over, as if it is the only thing related to guns that Paul has ever done, and you don't even know the story on the one vote which is your obsession?

Although I disagree with Paul on that vote, and see it as one of very few correct applications of the commerce clause in my lifetime, he said repeatedly that his objection was about the balance of powers and the (in his view) unconstitutional federal usurpation of state court power to try tort cases. Can you honestly read this speech and still claim that those issues "had nothing to do" with his vote?
Ron Paul in the US House of Representatives, April 9, 2003

Mr. Speaker, I rise today as a firm believer in the Second amendment and an opponent of all federal gun laws. In fact, I have introduced legislation, the Second Amendment Restoration Act (HR 153), which repeals misguided federal gun control laws such as the Brady Bill and the assault weapons ban. I believe the Second amendment is one of the foundations of our constitutional liberties. However, Mr. Speaker, another foundation of those liberties is the oath all of us took to respect constitutional limits on federal power. While I understand and sympathize with the goals of the proponents of the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (HR 1036), this bill exceeds those constitutional limitations, and so I must oppose it.

It is long past time for Congress to recognize that not every problem requires a federal solution. This country's founders understood the need to separate power between federal, state, and local governments to maximize individual liberty and make government most responsive to citizens. The reservation of most powers to the states strictly limited the role of the federal government in dealing with civil liability matters; it reserved jurisdiction over matters of civil tort, such as alleged gun-related negligence suits, to the state legislatures.

While I am against the federalization of tort reform, I must voice my complete disapproval of the very nature of these suits brought against gun manufacturers. Lawsuits for monetary damages from gun violence should be filed against the perpetrators of those crimes, not gun manufacturers! Holding manufacturers liable for harm they could neither foresee nor prevent is irresponsible and outlandish. The company that makes a properly functioning product in accordance with the law is acting lawfully, and thus should not be taken to court because of misuse by the purchaser (or in many cases, by a criminal who stole the weapon). Clearly these lawsuits are motivated not by a concern for justice, but by a search for deep pockets and a fanatical anti-gun political agenda.

However, Mr. Speaker, the most disturbing aspect of these lawsuits is the idea that guns, which are inanimate objects, are somehow responsible for crimes. HR 1036 shifts the focus away from criminals and their responsibility for their actions. It adds to the cult of irresponsibility that government unfortunately so often promotes. This further erodes the ethics of individual responsibility for one's own actions that must form the basis of a free and moral society. The root problem of violence is not the gun in the hand, but the gun in the heart: each person is accountable for the deeds that flow out of his or her own heart. One can resort to any means available to commit a crime, such as knives, fertilizer, pipes, or baseball bats. Should we start suing the manufacturers of these products as well because they are used in crimes? Of course not – the implications are preposterous.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, I would remind my fellow supporters of gun rights that using unconstitutional federal powers to restrict state gun lawsuits makes it more likely those same powers will be used to restrict our gun rights. Despite these lawsuits, the number one threat to gun ownership remains a federal government freed of its constitutional restraints. Expanding that government in any way, no matter how just the cause may seem, is not in the interests of gun owners or lovers of liberty.

In conclusion, while I share the concern over the lawsuits against gun manufacturers, which inspired HR 1036, this bill continues the disturbing trend toward federalization of tort law. Enhancing the power of the federal government is not in the long-term interests of defenders of the Second amendment and other constitutional liberties. Therefore, I must oppose this bill.
 
This is why I said in this thread, often the criticism laid against Paul was without understanding. Someone hears a bit of propaganda on Paul and spreads the lie. I've been guilty of the same.

When my sons first told me about Paul, all I knew were the lies. Like He said we deserved 9/11 which was an absolute crock of crap. A lie Rudy Giuliani would have been only too happy to see spread and ultimately Paul made Rudy look like a fool on that issue IMO.

Then as I looked deeper , I began to realize Paul was following sound principles and facts and staying true to the oath to uphold our constitution. IMO the US Constitution is what helped make this the greatest country on earth. Anyone wanting to truly protect those rights as laid out in it , is OK by me.

Then I noticed something else. Any time I had a conversation with someone unfamiliar with Paul and his record , they would propagate the same lies spread by others. When you truly look into the things Paul stood for , and how firm and honest he was in his convictions of these principles , it's hard for anyone that loves this country and loves truth, not to like the man. Even if you don't agree with him on every issue.

Paul was never against what the PLCAA was trying to accomplish. He was simply against the method of getting there because it was his belief that it was contrary to the powers given and goals of our constitution by creating yet more over reaching federal power.
 
Back to the original topic:
Can anyone actually verify the charge that Paul refused to debate Peden?
I saw this and it says that he said that he would do so "time permitting". When pressed, he does come across as very averse to the idea, yet he doesn't refuse here either.
Nevertheless, I think this is a very bad move on his part. He should gladly engage Penden for all the reasons outlined above and more. I do not support an incumbent refusing to debate a challenger regardless of who the incumbent is.
 
I saw this and it says that he said that he would do so "time permitting". When pressed, he does come across as very averse to the idea, yet he doesn't refuse here either.

Saying that "there is nothing to debate about" is pretty much the same thing as saying no.


I dont have a problem with Ron Paul refusing to debate his opponent. Ron Paul has been in a whole bunch of Republican debates, and said the same thing every time. If there is anyone in his district that doesn't know his views, they must be living under a rock.

By that logic he shouldn't have been allowed to be in any presidential debates since hes bee in politics for decades and had his newsletter for the same amount of time.

Of course since "his district" is new this year it could be very well that there are people who didn't bother to pay attention to Paul. I know I don't look into the congressman a district over from where I live.
 
This whole campaign is getting weird and creepy. Now GoSlash and I both agree with Stage2 about Ron Paul.

I'm thinking I might just need a decade off from politics.
 
By that logic he shouldn't have been allowed to be in any presidential debates since hes bee in politics for decades and had his newsletter for the same amount of time.

I hadn't heard of him or read his newsletter til he started running for president.

What would you do, force him to debate at gunpoint???

Would you also have supported forcing all the Republicans to do a Univision debate as well?
 
What would you do, force him to debate at gunpoint???

Would you also have supported forcing all the Republicans to do a Univision debate as well?

Its not about forcing. Paul has a complete right not to debate if he chooses. Thats perfectly fine.

However its utterly hypocritical to on one hand demand to debate using the voters and "getting your message out" as a justification, but on the other hand refuse to debate saying "there isn't anything to talk about".

By this logic, Peden should get a spot on Leno right?
 
I don't understand what you are talking about. I believe Ron Paul was invited to every debate he attended. He didn't force his way into any debate.
So I don't see the hipocrisy. If the Republicans had chosen not to have presidential debates, that would have been ok also, and fair to all candidates.
 
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