Paul Gomez on 9mm vs .45
- Thread starter drew332
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Tactical Jackalope
New member
They're better things to argue about papa! lol this horse has been dead for such a long time now..we're just hitting our sticks against bones.
I ask myself the same thing, then I answer myself with.... "video gamers"
Since when is saying one might be better off with - a) more controllability; b) a handgun that fits the user and his needs; c) more capacity - the same as saying the .45 isn't a capable round?
For some people, the .45 may have too much recoil, too large a grip frame, or too few rounds in the magazine.
I like the .45 well enough; I have it in DW CBOB, S&W M&P45 and 45c, and Les Baer UTC flavors. Oh, yeah, and also in a Colt 1917.
I just don't worship it.
For some people, the .45 may have too much recoil, too large a grip frame, or too few rounds in the magazine.
I like the .45 well enough; I have it in DW CBOB, S&W M&P45 and 45c, and Les Baer UTC flavors. Oh, yeah, and also in a Colt 1917.
I just don't worship it.
Since never. I never said any of that. I never said the .45acp was superior or inferior. I don't care if you own a pistol in that caliber and I never stated that any particular member said it was not a capable round.
I never said I liked it, hated it, tolerated it, or anything else. I asked when it was that people put so much effort into being negative about the .45acp that the act of trying to de-bunk .45acp became an end unto itself. That's as far as my statement went. The other stuff you've added on is nothing I commented on
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But those were the factors under discussion in the OP video, and since. So how are they "de-bunking" the .45acp?
Seems some .45acp folk get knee-jerk defensive over the supposed supremacy of their anointed round.
The .45acp is a good, viable duty round. It is not a talisman or some divine thing. I respect the .45, and often carry a .45. I am not married to it.
Some people seem to be.
Seems some .45acp folk get knee-jerk defensive over the supposed supremacy of their anointed round.
The .45acp is a good, viable duty round. It is not a talisman or some divine thing. I respect the .45, and often carry a .45. I am not married to it.
Some people seem to be.
OM,
By shoot well, that is a personal indicator I use for myself based on 32 years of LE/military experience and competitive shooting. For example I was shooting my new S&W 640 Pro and at 10 yards with 4 types of ammo I was grouping about a 6" pattern at 10 yards slow fire, for comparison my Glock 27 and I do a 2" group at the same distance. I am not happy with the way I shoot the 640 yet, but that is just me. Control is also a factor, I had a 360PD it was uncontrollable with magnums. I tried a LCR 357 and did not like it.
A 4" N frame 44 mag is very powerful and controllable in the right hands, but is it really the best for concealed carry?
I do not understand what you mean by negatives, there are trade offs and options. The 640 only has 5 shots, but I carry magnums, that sort of offsets the capacity provided you can make good hits. Shooting my magnum snubbies through an IDPA match I actually shoot better and faster with Magnums than 38's. Like I said I have shot 10's of thousands of magnums, and I am 6' and 270 with very large hands so a combination of technique and strength help to tame the recoil.
The bottom line is a defensive handgun is just as personal a choice as is a mate. If you are not comfortable with it, not confident with it, and cannot run it well you will never be happy. I have total faith in the ability of the 9, 40 and 45 to get the job done, but for me I choose the 40 loaded with 155 Grn HST's, with a 357 loaded with 125 Grn DPX's as a back-up.
Don't get me wrong, I do not disagree with Mr Gomez.
By shoot well, that is a personal indicator I use for myself based on 32 years of LE/military experience and competitive shooting. For example I was shooting my new S&W 640 Pro and at 10 yards with 4 types of ammo I was grouping about a 6" pattern at 10 yards slow fire, for comparison my Glock 27 and I do a 2" group at the same distance. I am not happy with the way I shoot the 640 yet, but that is just me. Control is also a factor, I had a 360PD it was uncontrollable with magnums. I tried a LCR 357 and did not like it.
A 4" N frame 44 mag is very powerful and controllable in the right hands, but is it really the best for concealed carry?
I do not understand what you mean by negatives, there are trade offs and options. The 640 only has 5 shots, but I carry magnums, that sort of offsets the capacity provided you can make good hits. Shooting my magnum snubbies through an IDPA match I actually shoot better and faster with Magnums than 38's. Like I said I have shot 10's of thousands of magnums, and I am 6' and 270 with very large hands so a combination of technique and strength help to tame the recoil.
The bottom line is a defensive handgun is just as personal a choice as is a mate. If you are not comfortable with it, not confident with it, and cannot run it well you will never be happy. I have total faith in the ability of the 9, 40 and 45 to get the job done, but for me I choose the 40 loaded with 155 Grn HST's, with a 357 loaded with 125 Grn DPX's as a back-up.
Don't get me wrong, I do not disagree with Mr Gomez.
Walklightly
Moderator
Wow, five pages in 5 days. 
I guess this is a heated discussion.
Line them up.................
Remember the .380 Magsafe studies?
I guess this is a heated discussion.
Line them up.................
Remember the .380 Magsafe studies?
zincwarrior
New member
Indeed my wife can do the same with her .22 LRs. On the positive she can almost do the same with her 9mm now.
OldMarksman
Staff
While slow fire groups such a those might well help in the development of certain very fundamental skills, I cannot see how they would serve as a measure of merit in trying to assess how well one can put multiple rounds into a rapidly moving target quickly enough to stop a violent criminal actor before he can do serious damage.
I was referring to the effect of additonal recoil on the time between shots.
This leads me to believe that a bullet of the same diameter that penetrates the same body parts will have little or no more effect fired from a magnum than from a 9MM semiauto.
That's amazing. How do you do against competitors with service semi-autos?
Given the importance and rough equivalence of penetration and the fact that quick multiple hits on potentially multiple moving targets, the importance of fast shooting and a reasonable magazine capacity should be rather obvious.
The above-linked FBI report tells me that extra donder und blitzen at the muzzle will not help much unless there is a need for additional penetration--say, in hunting, or against barriers rarely encountered in justifiable SD shooting.
The other variable is bullet diameter. It stands to reason that a larger diameter wound will have somewhat greater effect than a smaller one, and just maybe, a greater immediate effect. From the above link:
So, as you say, there are trade-offs. Do you want to trade slower fire and smaller capacity for larger bullets, given roughly the same, and adequate, penetration?
Each person has to decide for himself or herself. Personally, I would rather score some hits in the extremities and some hits in the boiler room on all of the dangerous attackers with a 9MM than score some hits on extremities with a .45 and end up with an empty firearm before the danger has passed.
Is the latter a risk? Well, that's why they sell several calibers, isn't it? It's a judgment call.
mrbatchelor
New member
This is my position too. A double stack is a hands gun for me. Not a hand gun. I have less control of a double stack 9mm single handed than I do with a traditional 1911.
That's not to say I would not have more control with a lower recoil 9mm single stack. And these are starting to become popular.
MB
Tactical Jackalope
New member
lol clearly..oh well.
Love both the 9mm and the .45ACP
Wow,
OM you like tearing apart what I say OK.
Slow fire groups help me establish a baseline. Without a baseline it is meaningless to attempt fast shooting. I did not say that was all I did, just where I started.
Once the adrenaline dumps, recoil and blast become meaningless.
Well, having seen many people shot with many different cartridges on the street, I can tell you there is a difference between a 357 magnum and a 9mm, I don't care what some lab rat concocts to prove his agenda, take my word or not, but I have seen the terminal affects on the street for 3 decades and in the morgue for a few years.
I did not say I beat others with service auto's, or myself with service auto's
The same gun with different ammo.
You obviously missed the part where I said the Revolver is my back-up gun to the Glock.
OM you like tearing apart what I say OK.
Slow fire groups help me establish a baseline. Without a baseline it is meaningless to attempt fast shooting. I did not say that was all I did, just where I started.
Once the adrenaline dumps, recoil and blast become meaningless.
Well, having seen many people shot with many different cartridges on the street, I can tell you there is a difference between a 357 magnum and a 9mm, I don't care what some lab rat concocts to prove his agenda, take my word or not, but I have seen the terminal affects on the street for 3 decades and in the morgue for a few years.
I did not say I beat others with service auto's, or myself with service auto's
The same gun with different ammo.
You obviously missed the part where I said the Revolver is my back-up gun to the Glock.