Passive Non-Compliance

Is there a standard legal definition of "great bodily harm"?

Certainly the home owner has every right to get physical with the BG. If you grab him by the leg and drag him out of the car he could hit his head on the ground, potentially under some circumstance, somewhere, a fatal injury. Is that "great bodily harm"?

Considering that virtually ANY action by the home owner could, under some conceivable circumstance prove fatal or severely injury the BG then it seems as if such a strict understanding of the term would render the home owner legally impotent. I mean, you could kick the guy in the leg and cause a blood clot that kills him. There has to be a reasonable continuum between standing there with a lemonade for the guy and shooting him in the face.
 
peetzakilla,

It varies from state to state, but the commonlaw understanding of "great bodily harm" would include any disabling or crippling injury that lasts. A broken finger would probably not qualify; a broken skull probably would. (In my jurisdiction, a cop last year told me any broken bone would definitely qualify - but he was trying to scare the snot out of me when he said it, so I'm not sure that our local prosecutor's office would agree.)

It would be measured by the "reasonable" standard: what would an ordinary person reasonably expect to happen to him physically when you whacked the guy's knees with a baseball bat? ... when you shot him? ... when you dragged him out of the car? ... when you grabbed him by the scruff of his collar and shoved him up against the wall? ... when you pepper sprayed him? ... when you Tased him?

Of course there are always freak accidents, but a "reasonable" person would realistically expect serious injuries or even a fatality from some of those actions, and would realistically expect only temporary or transient injuries, or no injury at all, from the others.

pax
 
Att: PAX

Pax's quote: "I expressed no opinion on what the home owner should do"...

Of course you did PAX. That is exactly why I commented on your response to my comment. You enlightened us about the Florida statutes concerning what would happen if someone actually used a baseball bat on some sorry SOB (who is laughing at the man while stealing his radio). You compared using a bat on the thief as the same as shooting him through the heart!!
Puleeeeese..... Now let's see here: You can't use a gun on him, you can't use a bat on him, you can't use anything on him, (because it is excessive use of force, etc). You would not have posted it if you didn't feel that way about the situation. Of course, that is your right to express those beliefs and quote the statues (as to what we can and can't do)...... I respect your right to say it, I just don't happen to agree with you.

We are losing our individual rights as a free and law abiding citizens in this country. When you can't respond to a criminal who is committing a felony againist you, then where are we heading in the long run?

If that scum bag thief would have laughed at me (while stealing my radio from my car) I promise you, I would have taken care of business immediately. My baseball bat, would be very busy giving that low life a serious attitude adjustment. It's not a macho thing, but rather a principle thing. I just don't believe you can commit crimes like this and just walk away laughing at the victims. No way would I ever let that happen. I just wasn't raised that way. This guy is going down, one way or another. Hopefully the police can get there before it goes south, way down south............
 
We are losing our individual rights as a free and law abiding citizens in this country. When you can't respond to a criminal who is committing a felony againist you, then where are we heading in the long run?
Click to expand...

Losing our individual rights? Some years ago a law abiding citizen could not carry a weapon in Florida or where I live, and now we can.

If that scum bag thief would have laughed at me (while stealing my radio from my car) I promise you, I would have taken care of business immediately. My baseball bat, would be very busy giving that low life a serious attitude adjustment. It's not a macho thing, but rather a principle thing. I just don't believe you can commit crimes like this and just walk away laughing at the victims. No way would I ever let that happen. I just wasn't raised that way. This guy is going down, one way or another. Hopefully the police can get there before it goes south, way down south............
Click to expand...

Certainly an expeditious way to ensure the loss of individual rights and personal freedom by not abiding with the law.
 
Skydiver,

I'm sorry you do not like what the law says about use of force.

Again, I've expressed no personal opinion here - only told you what the law actually says. If you hate the law, work to change it. But I think you'll find most people agree that dead is dead (in the immortal words of Archie Bunker, "Wouldja rather they wuz pushed outta windows, little girl?") and maimed is maimed regardless of the instrument used to inflict the damage - so most folks are probably going to be happy to hear that the law makes no distinction between maiming someone with a baseball bat or maiming them with hobnail boots or maiming them with a golf club or maiming them with a firearm.

Me? I agree with Archie Bunker. ;)

pax
 
Old Marksman and PAX:

What the hell are you suggesting, do nothing? Just call the police and sit there while the thief is robbing you blind (right in front of you)?

Your quote kills me Old Marksman: "Certainly an expeditious way to ensure the loss of individual rights and personal rights by not abiding by the law".... So someone can rob you and you can't do a damn thing about it but call the police? What about the guy coming back later and doing something worse to you next time? The way you explain it, you would probably help them load up the goods they are stealing from you. As of yet, I have not read one word about what you would do in this situation: All you keep saying is what will happen, if I do something to the poor thief...

I have to believe folks, that the law is on the side of the victims to some degree (and if its not, then we are in deep doo doo). I respect the law and I believe that the law is on our side. Victims have rights too and we just can't let the bad guys of the world abuse citizens and nothing is ever done about it. No way in my book would I let that happen, (that's just me).

I just would have to do something besides a phone call in this scenario. But I guess that is the difference between you and me. I don't ever want to start any trouble with anyone, but I will not be robbed (especially right in front of me) and do nothing about it. Sorry....but that is the way it is.
 
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Skydiver, Have you failed to be up to speed on what you are legally allowed to do? It is public info in florida and if it is not a "violent felony" you cannot detain or use force to stop the crime so you would be charged with crimes and some are a felony... Shredding the car is not in that description.
Brent
 
Do not have a ccw.

I do not have a ccw so the gun is out. I would find a stick, many laying around my driveway. Yell hey honey let the dogs out. As my two 100 pound male Boxers came rushing out the door I would wave the stick and say get it boys and then toss it in the car.
 
Hogdogs:

Wow hogdogs, I thought you might be a little tougher on the thief than that, (from your past threads).
At any rate, let me ask you, "what exactly would you do if you heard and saw someone stealing equipment from your vehicle and when you approached him, he just laughed at you and went on ripping your radio out"?? Just make a phone call, right?

I live pretty much out in the boonies and the police would take a long time to get to my home.
 
I would later inform the officers that he got his face beat in when he exited my truck (cars are for city slickers) after I politely asked him to stop tearin up the truck and kindly leave my land. "officer, he then rushed out and approached with clenched fists and jist a cussin me, my wife and my momma! So I took him down..." Can't be lumpin' him up or shooting him as he lays across the car seat though!
Brent:cool:
 
Hogs: Check this out

Okay, what if he is bigger and tougher than you and kicks your ass instead? Then what are you going to do?

From the original post, this perp laughed at the home owner even as the owner held a gun on him... Uh, I gotta believe this is one tough hombre and/or a nut job. Either way, you are going to get a butt whipping just fighting him (even if you win).
 
Bigger and tuffer has been the demise of many who wish to take on the smaller and determined nut job like me. If sober, I am like a 30 pound pitbull lookin' at a hundred pound dog... Lemme at 'em!
I never really go lookin' to scrap but rarely walk away from one. If on my place and involving my transportation.... IT'S ON!!! The laughin BG has no chance as he thinks his condescending chuckle is gonna make me walk away... WRONG!!! A solid jerk of his ankles puts him on his back and I immediately go to droppin' bombs... Heck I wouldn't even have time to size him up. I treat everyone equal... like a 2,000lb bull.

But if he kicks my butt... he wins! Simple really, win some lose some just don't ever want my record to be upside down.
Brent
 
Hey Hogs:

Hey Hogdogs,
I would want you on my side any day of the week (if I got in some trouble).

Us Floridians have to stick together... Especially nowadays since I am getting to be an old fart and not as scrappy as I used to be (like back in the day). So, with that said, I would need that baseball bat againist the "laughing thief" if you weren't around to help me out.....
 
But if he kicks my butt... he wins! Simple really, win some lose some just don't ever want my record to be upside down.
Click to expand...

And if he wins by shooting you in the head? Still all good?
 
Donn, I reckon so... we all gonna go someday. But thus far none of the lead sent my way ever hit me. If he hasn't already got the gun in hand, he ain't got much chance of bringing it to bare.
And if he does have it visible I am free to use any force i wish against the armed criminal brandishing a weapon on my property.
Brent
 
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