Passive Non-Compliance

Actually the funniest idea was suggested by someone in a PM -- letting your pet ferrets loose up the guy's pants legs. :D

ImprobableJoe said:
Fail. Once you walk away, you don't really have a right to walk back over to the guy. Lethal force should only be used to protect yourself and your family, IMO. Your car stereo shouldn't be worth killing for, no matter how insecure you feel about your manhood. The fact that you have time to walk past the criminal, knock on a window, wake someone up and talk to them about calling the police means that you did not feel that you were in danger. Returning to the place where the crime is happening means that YOU are escalating the situation, and if you then shoot the person you are at least partially at fault.

Not being required to retreat doesn't give you the right to advance and engage.
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Ricky B's post after yours was well written and, I think, mostly correct. If you spot someone committing a crime (or possible crime) on your property or suspect they are trying to take your property, you do have the right to "confront" them to order them to stop. "Disengaging" to have a 2nd party call police is simply a prudent step.

WRT civil lawsuits everyone seems to be so afraid of...
Sure, any lawyer can try to tweak the facts to his client's benefit. But if we're doing things right, we remind the jury that;
1. The so called "plaintiff" was engaged in criminal conduct;
2. On your property;
3. And failed to cease his criminal conduct when ordered to do so;
4. Was given ample opportunity to depart the area or surrender;
5. Refused either of those options;
6. Would not have been hurt had HE made the right decision (leaving).
7. Was seriously injured only after threatening or using force to resist lawful citizens arrest or capture.

Had he not been engaged in criminal conduct OR had he departed OR not used force to resist -- all of which are HIS choices -- he would not have suffered injuries.
 
I didn't read all of the posts so I'm not sure if someone mentioned this or something similar:
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Short flash to make him lose his night vision. Back off to put him in the dark... repeat. It will get considerably harder to take apart a car and make him much more inept at other tasks.
 
Apologies if this has already been posted, I was too lazy to read 9 pages of responses. My answer is:

-go tell the wife to call 911 and tell them there's been a shooting and this guy's really hurt bad. That'd get them there in under "30 minutes."
-Next, I'd close the door of the vehicle. If his leg were in the way, so be it, but it would be closed very quickly. "Officer, when I confronted him, he tried to get up and turn, so I kicked the door to slow him down..."
-If he then came at me with a screwdriver or drill, hey, that's a deadly weapon.

Imperfect, but hey, it might work...
 
- Get in and start driving?
- Walk across the street to MILPOL and tell them to get their fat hindparts over to my house?
- Do what I have been trained to do with active resistors; kicks, punches, stuns, takedowns, and/or OC spray in an effort to gain control of the situation...
- If he tries to go hands-on, I'd step up to an intermediate weapon; idealy a baton, but a maglite or similar blunt striking tool would suffice.
- Deadly force is not morally justified for a friggin stereo, regardless of how you read the state laws. All of these Billy-bada**es that think that a gun, a CC license, and a castle law gives them the right to go outside guns a' blazin' no matter what need to seriously reconsider their so-called tactics, their moral fiber, and keep a very expensive lawyer on retainer.
 
go tell the wife to call 911 and tell them there's been a shooting and this guy's really hurt bad. That'd get them there in under "30 minutes."
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That would constitute making a false report in many jurisdictions. If they caught the guy, you might find yourself sharing a ride to the station with him.

- Do what I have been trained to do with active resistors; kicks, punches, stuns, takedowns, and/or OC spray in an effort to gain control of the situation...
- If he tries to go hands-on, I'd step up to an intermediate weapon; idealy a baton, but a maglite or similar blunt striking tool would suffice.
- Deadly force is not morally justified for a friggin stereo, regardless of how you read the state laws. All of these Billy-bada**es that think that a gun, a CC license, and a castle law gives them the right to go outside guns a' blazin' no matter what need to seriously reconsider their so-called tactics, their moral fiber, and keep a very expensive lawyer on retainer.
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Why are you willing to approach the suspect or get into a fight over a stereo? As for "intermediate weapon," those are also called bludgeons/ deadly weapons in many jurisdictions. He zigs when you think he's going to zag, and you are going to need that very expensive lawyer.
 
I would just like to take a minute or two and vent on a couploe of what I believe to be misconceptions.

Many people have said "Whay risk a fight (or whatever) just for a stereo.
While I probably would not immediately confront the BG (not my way), it's really about more than a stereo.
It is a flagrant disregard for me, my property, my family, and everything that I believe in.
This BG does not care about anything.
To me, it proves that he is capable of anything, including harming my family.
If he gets away today, he will do this or worse to me or someone else. Guaranteed.
I can't say that I would know what I would do, but my ultimate goal would be to get this guy in jail.
I want him to meet a police officer... tonight.

The other thing I see is so many people willing to lie to the police.
I would say he came at me.
I would say I thought he had a gun.
It sounds cute and fun but in reality it puts you in the same place the BG is at.
Twisting the law to get your way.
All this hokey making up stories to be able to do the right thing comes from litigation.
We are a lawyer heavy society.
To me, I do what I feel I must do and no more.
Whatever I decide to do, I would make no apologies for it and I would not make up stories about it.
With actions come consequences.
Made up stories won't really help in the long run, it just turns you a little bit to the dark side.
 
id have my wife bring me a baseball bat and beat then have the policed follow the blood trail when they arrive.
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Either you missed post #17, or you are willing to risk the consequences of using deadly force unlawfully, or both.

If it is illegal to inflict serious physical injury or to kill the man, it won't matter what instrument you use to do it - whether it's a firearm or a baseball bat, it would fit under the "deadly force" statute just as well.
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http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3551526&postcount=17

Keep in mind that the origins of almost all of the laws in this country that relate to the use of deadly force trace back to a time before people had firearms.

I'm sure you understood that and were being facetious.
 
Whatever I decide to do, I would make no apologies for it and I would not make up stories about it.
With actions come consequences.
Made up stories won't really help in the long run, it just turns you a little bit to the dark side.
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Amen.

I find the posts about taking certain actions and then lying about what happened to be disturbing.
 
BillCA said:
Thinking outside the box

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooper Tyree
I have a Daisy BB pistol, chrome, can't tell it's not real at night. I'd walk up to the door opposite him, open door, toss it inside to the floorboard or seat beside him. Grunt "throwaway gun". Slam the door. Walk around to the other side, pull my piece and wait.

Note I'm not advocating throwaway guns or giving him a fake gun so you can shoot him. Not at all. We're just thinking outside the box.

What I am doing is guessing that someone cool enough to know that you can't shoot them for what they are doing, will know that the situation dynamics have changed dramatically now that they think I put a gun in the car with them. They will know that from the legal standpoint, you can shoot an armed robber. I'd expect them to get a whole lot more cooperative in a hurry.

They might ask to give themselves up, they might bolt and take off, or they might toss the gun out the window and tell you to quit interrupting them you're disturbing their concentration. If you have the right persona though, you could throw them off their game.
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For a good ole Southern boy who's mama didn't raise him to be makin' guesses in front of Yankee Captains, that's pretty good thinking Tyree.

A little psy-ops to play with his mind. If he tosses the gun out the car you could always mutter "Good. Fingerprints." to keep him wondering.
__________________
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Exactly along the lines of what I was thinking Bill, and I see you know who Trooper Tyree was. :D Pity they don't make'em like they used to.

Cheers!
 
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