Our economy

Well, unless you turn on AM radio or open the Wall Street Journal, USA Today, etc..
Click to expand...

Air America, NPR....

Wall Street Journal-I think that's a needle and will concede...one vs. 1,845...

USA Today? I think it's just a tad left....

I do believe some people try to live beyond their means but the biggest problem is that most people are going into debt not to live the high life but to simply survive.
Click to expand...

I think the terms some and most need to be juxtaposed. Back in the mid to late '90's IIRC, is when people really started to get into the new car buying craze. Back in the '60's and '70's the average years a person owned a car was about 7 to 9 years. Now, it's less than 4. And it's not because the quality is bad. There's better made cars today than back then...

I simply can't agree with your statement seeing so many people overspending. Yes, there are people trying to make ends meet. I also see the same people buying brand new cars right after bundling their CC debt into a 2nd mortgage....

Those days no longer exist and it is not because of the consumer...it is because the government has taken the power away from the working man and given it all to the big company he works for and those same companies are more concerned with the quick profit and then bailing out instead of surviving for the long haul.
Click to expand...

I do agree that this is a problem. However, who elected those people into govt. office? Not the Chinese....we did, as the consumer. Union people that blindly vote democrat because their jobs were going to be saved by the blessed democratic party.:rolleyes: Don't know about you, but I see a problem with buying a car that's built by someone that has maybe a high school diploma making $35/hr. installing a bumper with benefits that have him/her off almost as many days as one actually works. Kinda off kilter if you ask me. It's one thing to pay a reasonable wage, another to pay someone on the factory line that makes more money than an actual blue-collar worker busting his butt in construction...

and hold down the minimum wage.
Click to expand...

First, who REALLY makes minimum wage anymore? McDonald's even pays better than this...
Second, our local unions here stumped big time behing Rod Blagjoyvich (Gov. of Ill) for raising minimum wage. Why? Because in their union contracts it's stated that their wages go up the same increment as given to the min wage requirement. So, a local plumber goes from making $28hr. to $30.50hr. Guess what the businesses do to help offset the already high labor costs? You guessed it, raise their prices.

Sure helps out the average American, doesn't it?
 
Is this thread about the economy or the media?
Click to expand...
I think the media has alot to do with the economy since the government uses the media to bolster or reduce public confidence. They play the game of "tell people things are good long enough and they will believe it" and conversly "tell people things are bad and they will fulfill that prophecy."
 
Playboypenguin

When during the last several years has the economy been that good?.......
I must be missing the good stuff.
Click to expand...

You must have missed a lot.

Our economy has undergone an UNPRECENTED 5+ years of solid growth, quarter over quarter. You just must not understand how that growth is measured.

Interest rates (and mortgage rates) are near historical lows.

Unemployment is at an historical low.

Worker productivity is at an all-time high.

Corporate profits are at all-time highs.

Home ownership is at the highest level it has ever been in this country.

Oil (and gasoline) are not very much higher than they were in the early 80s, when adjusted for inflation.

Yes, the "liberal" media has been trying to convince voters for years that the economy is in the toilet, but in truth it is NOT, and hasn't been for 5 years.
 
i'd like to step in and voice an opinion if i may....

i think our economy is pretty much in shambles right now....to the point that it is causing negative economic effects around the globe. and while the subjects of higher priced fuel (gasoline, diesel) and the "current" housing industry fiasco are at the forefont of many discussions, the current cost of the most basic NEEDS are not. such needs are the cost of milk (well over $4 p/ gallon in my area) and eggs (over $2). this may seem strange to bring up but think about the impact it has on low/lower/moderate income families (not middle class - whats that? we should call it the invisible class). fuel prices are not truly based on supply and are artificially set, the housing industry has been out of control for much longer than just the last 2 years....food is about true supply and demand. the insane fluctuations (the rapidly rising cost) in food prices have me worried. again, it may seem weird but when you are at the check-out counter, think about how much you ae shelling out and what you are actually getting in return.
 
We may very well be in a recession, but I think it is more a market correction. Homes and the stock market were grossly overinflated. Inflation we're seeing is the trickle down from oil price increrases. We're all to blame for that one. Answers: Cut government waste and pork barrel spending. (probably close to or exceeding 1 trillion a year) Invest in stateside manufacturing. As the dollar falls US manufacturing becomes more attractive. Stop using credit. Buy only what you can pay for. Develop oil resources available to us.( Stop allowing environmental nuts to restrict use of our resources). Stop driving so much. Trade in that big SUV for a more economical auto. Combine trips. Use public transport when available. Most important of all, elect officials who will stand up and fight for these things.
 
Our economy has undergone an UNPRECENTED 5+ years of solid growth, quarter over quarter. You just must not understand how that growth is measured.
Click to expand...
And where has this growth been? Has it been in ways to strengthen the middle class or grow the lower class? has it caused the creation of livable wage jobs or is it solely benefited large corporations bottom lines?
Interest rates (and mortgage rates) are near historical lows
Click to expand...
Interest rates have been lowered to try and stimulate stagnant growth. They are not low because of a strong economy. Read Greenspan's book for more info on what a mess this has really become.
Unemployment is at an historical low.
Click to expand...
Unemployment is pretty low but rising. What you have to look at is what percentage of thse jobs have shifted from livable wage industrial and high tech jobs and into near poverty level jobs.
Worker productivity is at an all-time high.
Click to expand...
It does not take much investigation to find that this is because companies are doing more with less domestic employees and at the same time compensation is down in comparison to production.
Corporate profits are at all-time highs.
Click to expand...
And this helps workers how? Especially when it is mostly at their expense.
Home ownership is at the highest level it has ever been in this country.
Click to expand...
Have you been completely ignoring what is happening in the housing market???
Oil (and gasoline) are not very much higher than they were in the early 80s, when adjusted for inflation.
Click to expand...
Not true at all when you compare the costs to the average income of both eras. Plus, economist love to compare to specific time frames instead of total averages because the can claim that this gas crisis is not that much worse than the last gas crisis.
 
If the economy tanks into a recession and that seems to be the dire prediction across the board, get ready for Hillary the Communist. A bad economy has always helped the dem's, don't know why, but it always has. This could not be happening at a worse time, an election year.:mad:
 
Penguin, you just have to quit reading those DNC press releases.

And where has this growth been? Has it been in ways to strengthen the middle class or grow the lower class? has it caused the creation of livable wage jobs or is it solely benefited large corporations bottom lines?
Click to expand...

It is a measure. It is a number. I guess you and Hillary get to spin it any way you want.

Interest rates have been lowered to try and stimulate stagnant growth. They are not low because of a strong economy.
Click to expand...

Interest rates have been low for a number of years, during an extended period of economic growth. If you think economic growth over the last 5 years has been "stagnant" then you haven't been paying attention.

Unemployment is pretty low but rising. What you have to look at is what percentage of thse jobs have shifted from livable wage industrial and high tech jobs and into near poverty level jobs.
Click to expand...

Another measure of economic growth. It is a number, and historically low. Again, you and Hillary can add your own spin to it.

Quote:
Worker productivity is at an all-time high. It does not take much investigation to find that this is because companies are doing more with less domestic employees and at the same time compensation is down in comparison to production.
Click to expand...

Another measure of economic growth. It is a number. Again, you and Hillary can add your own spin to it.

Corporate profits are at all-time highs. And this helps workers how? Especially when it is mostly at their expense.
Click to expand...

Another measure of economic growth. It is a number. Again, you and Hillary can add your own spin to it.

Have you been completely ignoring what is happening in the housing market???
Click to expand...

What has been happening in the housing market is because of.............GREED. People are jumping into loans on houses they cannot afford, nor actually qualify for. The end result of that is the mortgage mess we now see. It is cyclical.....it has happened before and it will happen again.
And all of these idiots now want the gov't to bail them out.


Oil (and gasoline) are not very much higher than they were in the early 80s, when adjusted for inflation.

Not true at all when you compare the costs to the average income of both eras. Plus, economist love to compare to specific time frames instead of total averages because the can claim that this gas crisis is not that much worse than the last gas crisis.
Click to expand...

Adjusting for inflation has nothing, nada, zip, zilch to do with "average income". Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeesh !!! It has do to with comparing costs by taking inflation into account.
 
You can't define a recession by saying "the price of eggs has gone up".
Click to expand...

this is not meant as a challenge to you sir, for claiming recession was never my intent....and with that....

"milk and eggs" and the supply and cost of such are a good indicator of your local economy. the demand for such perishables are almost always supplied by the area in which you live unlike oranges, apples, bananas, corn, "seasonal" produce, etc (these items and more can originate halfway around the globe, in some cases). i reason that if more localities than just the one i happen to reside can vouch for what could be volatile prices on these basic needs/items then it is a very accurate glimpse of "the bigger picture".
 
The number one key is the almighty consumer. No matter what products, employment, or benefits businesses or the govt. provides, it's the consumer that ultamately drives the economy.
Click to expand...

I must strongly disagree with this. The key is not how much is consumed, but how much is produced. And we don't manufacture much in this country anymore.

High consumption is a false measure of economy. We've had high consumption for years, outstripping our actual production, which made for great indications of economic growth, but I don't think there was much real growth... we (as a nation, both government and people) simply piled on the debt... which must be repaid... out of our pockets, or via inflation.

The real problem is that our economy is built on a house of cards. We don't manufacture many durable goods anymore. Instead, we have transitioned to a "service" and then "information" economy -- to quote Neal Stephenson, we're good at "music, movies, microcode, and high-speed pizza delivery." Unfortunately, the first three of those depend on strict copyright and patent law to bring in money -- and that's a legal construct which is not universally shared outside our borders. (And I'm not even sure it should be, but that isn't directly relevant to this discussion.)

High-speed pizza delivery indicates the service economy, which generates jobs but little "real" wealth, as nothing is actually produced and it results in no net cash flow into the country.

So anyway, we use copyright law to ensure a strong economy, essentially using legislation to guarantee profits to the entertainment and software industries. Some other countries have been strong-armed into passing similar laws. But ultimately, the strength of that economy is based on a fiction; the prices are kept high because of artificial (legislated) scarcity. Take that away and a major contributor to our economy, our large export of entertainment, evaporates. It's a house of cards.

In the meantime, China and India are industrializing, and those two countries combined have about 8 times the population of the US. The markets are feeling the increase in demand for energy, raw materials, and goods... and as a result, our standard of living must decrease. Significantly. There simply aren't enough resources to go around, and we've been using far more per capita than anyone else in the process of building a large economy.

Also see this.
 
The following column by economist Paul Craig Roberts provides some good insights into the current economic situation:

No Escape From War and Unemployment

For those not familiar with the author:

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He was Associate Editor of the Wall Street Journal editorial page and Contributing Editor of National Review. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.
Click to expand...

I highly recommend his other columns as well. They're a refreshing alternative to the phony conservatism of Hannity, Limbaugh, and Coulter.
 
"It is a number. Again, you and Hillary can add your own spin to it."

This seems like a weak rebuttle. The numbers are already spun to say they are a good thing. What PBP is trying to do is actually examine the reality of that supposed growth.

The Bush Years will be remembered as the golden years for the select few, like CEOs. A few people have been making money hand over fist. Corporations have had unprecented earnings. Unfortunately, this has been at the expense of the lowest of the low.

I have yet to see anyone refute PBP's assertions about the middle class. Why is that? Is it because all the data on the subject clearly shows the middle class shrinking more and more every year?

We're moving towards a society with two classes- the super rich, and everyone else. Look at the worldwide distribution of wealth already!

But by all means, keep arguing about republicans and democrats. :rolleyes:
 
Our national debt is rising. People scream for tax cuts. :rolleyes:

If your mortgage rate goes up, do you look for a lower paying job? nopie. You need more money to pay the higher bills.

That's what's happening in our country right now. Unemployment is up, and the war is costing us quite a lot of money...which is being borrowed from may other countries. If they think this is bad, just wait until we start paying back what we're borrowing.

Think we'll be seeing any tax cuts anytime soon? Probably not in our lifetimes..unless it's just a small token here or there that makes good on a campaign promise...but really isn't the best thing to do.


Our high schools don't teach money management anymore, because they're busy selling advertising to lendors like Visa and American Express. They even let this stuff in our elementary schools, where kids now are taught that borrowing is the way to get what you want. The annual household savings in the US is NEGATIVE!!! We can't manage our household budget, yet we're expected to know who can do it for us and vote accordingly?

When there are hundreds of political issues, we can only voice our opinion on a few of them, by choosing the person that is as close as possible to our beliefs. There is no perfect candidate that is exactly what we want, and has never voted in a way we don't like, or against something we wanted.
 
The products produced in America aren't of high quality
Click to expand...

Wrong.

In major industries like aircraft, pharmaceuticals, food products, financial services, entertainment, etc. American products lead the world in quality and are significant export areas.
 
Probably best to take "motor vehicles" off that list... Not exactly a market that the US is dominating.

While I do not support any kind of "bailout" for those that cannot afford their mortgages, one cannot simply ignore the problem or shrug it off. It WILL have a large impact on the entire economy.

Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae play way too large a role to go under without a major impact.

Luckily we cannot live on credit cards because somehow they made it legal to charge 29%.
 
Luckily we cannot live on credit cards because somehow they made it legal to charge 29%.
Click to expand...

I must have missed the part where they force people to sign up at gunpoint for credit cards with a 29% APR.

They "made it legal"? Why in the hell should they make it illegal?

I swear, this desire to save people from the consequences of their own bad decisions is what's going to drive the final nail into freedom's coffin before too long. We simply pass to many laws, and spend way too much money, to make sure people don't need to know basic financial management, among other things.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top